Too many tours??

[solid C player]

Does pool already have too many tours? There is alot of them and more are on the way. Is this a good thing?

 

[ctyhntr]

What is your opinion? Are they getting a full fields and players being turned away, or do you see too many tournaments chasing after the same pool of players.

 

[NewStroke]

One tour I really enjoyed was the tour of the Alamo. It lasted only about an hour.

 

[Johnnyt]

There are too many tours now. 90% of them are not filling up. Everyone is trying to put themselves in position, position for WHAT? When no tour promoter is making any money anymore, or losing money maybe someone that has money, knows the pool industry inside and out, and has the management skills, will take it ALL over and finally start two different National Tours...1 amature and 1 pro. The amature would be for minor leagues or stepping stone to the pro tour and players that just like to play as a sport and hobby. Johnnyt

 

[kryptonite9]

There are too many tours now. 90% of them are not filling up. Everyone is trying to put themselves in position, position for WHAT? When no tour promoter is making any money anymore, or losing money maybe someone that has money, knows the pool industry inside and out, and has the management skills, will take it ALL over and finally start two different National Tours...1 amature and 1 pro. The amature would be for minor leagues or stepping stone to the pro tour and players that just like to play as a sport and hobby. Johnnyt

Bingo. Tour schedules are generated with no consideration for other tours. It is a ME business. In the northeast some weekends have 4 different tour events. 4 events = 4 tour directors getting paid = 4 pool rooms getting paid = less money for the players. Centralize to 1 event per weekend and the players would get more money. BUT that would require organization and cooperation of which this game has none. Until pool has organization it will continue to flounder from a professional/tournament perspective. It will take a radical change to make this happen and the players will never accept this. Pool players in general are a what is in it for ME right NOW group and the powers that be take advantage of this.

 

[ctyhntr]

Thanks for the clarification.

Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't the current business model require room owners put up money to get a tour hosted in their hall? This payment guarantees the cash payouts in case there isn't a full field and the entry fees don't cover payout, right? The room owner make their money back and then some off the table fees, food, drinks as the result of extra foot traffic generated by the tour. If the room is strong enough, it wouldn't need the tour to stay profitable.

If it wasn't profitable to sustain a tour, wouldn't it close up shop, IPT comes to mind? In the long run, this scares away potential tour sponsors.

 

[Tbeaux]

Too many tours??

I don't know. It depends what you mean. Mens tours, womens tours, pro, amateur, juniors,handicapped, local, national, international, 9-ball,8-ball,10-ball, 14.1 , 1-pocket ???

Generally speaking competition or lack of competition rules the day. The best run, best thought out, best supported tours survive and so do those tour who operate without competition from other tours.

 

[fasteddienc]

Never ending battle

This debate will always be ongoing. We have 4 tours in the Carolinas, GA, TN, and VA areas. All are competing for the same players for the most part. The room owners really take a beating and I feel are booking less and less events. In most cases the room owner puts up the added money, puts the directors up in a motel, pays their food tab, and sometimes pays them an additional fee to run the event. In most cases they can't possibly break even for the following reasons:

1) pool players don't buy alcohol and often go down the street to McDonalds to eat instead of eating at the venue hosting the event

2)fields are often in the high 20's or low 30's depending on whether event is amateur or open....amateur tours have killed the chance for any competing open events to get huge fields...multiple events leave players making a choice based on (entry cost, added money, assumed payout, which tourney will have weaker field?)

3)some tour events run into the late night/peak hours due to late starts, thus eliminating the room owner a chance to cater to their regulars who pay table time and drink...so those customers leave and go somewhere else

So basically if a room owner has to shell out close to 2000 to have the event...they have to cover that to break even which may equal to 4000 in sales to make the profit to cover the 2000 spent...NOT HAPPENING in many cases. In addition very few spectators, wives, gf's, etc. are there to help and most rooms aren't specatator friendly.

I think if each region or area had only 1-2 events per month they would be full fields if you got rid of all the stipulations of who and who can't play by getting rid of all amateur tour events. We have spoiled players by letting them play in easier events....so therefore they no longer want to get better or play great players....maybe it is too late to go back now!! If you encourage players to get better then they will put in more hours of practice at their local room and then everyone wins. The room owners get more business, the players strive to be better, and thus pool is not so divided.

I agree that for pool to reach it's full potential we must mesh all tours together and get rid of the ME mentality that tour operators have. More and more pro players are forming their own tours to make a living since they have no events to play in. So instead of someone stepping up and building a pro tour for them, they build their own tours and further divide pool.

 

[accustatsfan]

I don't play, promote or sponsor any tour (they are probably most qualified to comment) but I think the more amateur tours an area can sustain the better.

Amateurs are the one who vote with their dollars while pros will play wherever they can get a sponsor or paycheck.

Johnny Miller and Joe Morgan (favorite commentators for their respective sports) have both said increasing the numbers of available venues only weakens the overall quality of the professionals. They were both among the best players in their sports so they would have made it no matter what.

Johnny Miller mentioned that increasing the number of tours only prolongs to many people wasting their life pursuing an unrealistic dream.

Joe Morgan said on ESPN increasing the number of major league teams only allowed players in the majors who never would have made it before therefore weakening the quality of major league baseball.

 

[Matt90]

well said

This debate will always be ongoing. We have 4 tours in the Carolinas, GA, TN, and VA areas. All are competing for the same players for the most part. The room owners really take a beating and I feel are booking less and less events. In most cases the room owner puts up the added money, puts the directors up in a motel, pays their food tab, and sometimes pays them an additional fee to run the event. In most cases they can't possibly break even for the following reasons:

1) pool players don't buy alcohol and often go down the street to McDonalds to eat instead of eating at the venue hosting the event

2)fields are often in the high 20's or low 30's depending on whether event is amateur or open....amateur tours have killed the chance for any competing open events to get huge fields...multiple events leave players making a choice based on (entry cost, added money, assumed payout, which tourney will have weaker field?)

3)some tour events run into the late night/peak hours due to late starts, thus eliminating the room owner a chance to cater to their regulars who pay table time and drink...so those customers leave and go somewhere else

So basically if a room owner has to shell out close to 2000 to have the event...they have to cover that to break even which may equal to 4000 in sales to make the profit to cover the 2000 spent...NOT HAPPENING in many cases. In addition very few spectators, wives, gf's, etc. are there to help and most rooms aren't specatator friendly.

I think if each region or area had only 1-2 events per month they would be full fields if you got rid of all the stipulations of who and who can't play by getting rid of all amateur tour events. We have spoiled players by letting them play in easier events....so therefore they no longer want to get better or play great players....maybe it is too late to go back now!! If you encourage players to get better then they will put in more hours of practice at their local room and then everyone wins. The room owners get more business, the players strive to be better, and thus pool is not so divided.

I agree that for pool to reach it's full potential we must mesh all tours together and get rid of the ME mentality that tour operators have. More and more pro players are forming their own tours to make a living since they have no events to play in. So instead of someone stepping up and building a pro tour for them, they build their own tours and further divide pool.

Very good insight there Eddie :thumbup: I do think that at least one
tournament director I know of is willing to set down and try and not schedule
tournaments on top of each other .I doubt that will happen but it is what it
is .

 

[tom mcgonagle]

There's far to many tours, and not enough money, or player's to support them. If I travel to play in a tournament and I don't finish in the top four places I'm probably losing money. I'd rather play in two good tournaments a month than play in four bad ones. The prize money has to be distributed further through the field so player's can justify and afford, going to play in another tournament.

The player's also have to support the room owner and the tournament director as much as they can afford to. We can't exist without them.

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