Tournament debaucle, what’s your opinion?

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I played in a tournament Saturday and scenario came up. Lost my first match in a double
elimination format. Second match is called so i go to the assigned table, theother players not there yet so i start hitting balls.
After about five minutes i tell the tournament director he hasn't shown yet.
He calls him again, another five goes by. No show. Calls him againg letting him know he's on the clock.
Come to find out he also lost his first match and he left. "Oh yeah he does this all the time if he loses his first one"
I'm told by another player. The big deal is he was the first blind bid in the calcutta for around 250. The guy that bought him was not happy.
Welcome to the pool world but I'm sure you already knew that.
 

gerard soriano

HIGH RUN STILL TO COME !
Silver Member
Then why continue on if he lost his second match and was eliminated? What happens after his loss has nothing to do with him because he was already eliminated. The next opponent should receive the forfeit, not the guy who already lost.
I think using the term (
I know the player that won. Tons of integrity. Would never continue on if there was any issue.
I think using the term (Integrity) then saying He would never continued if there were any issues ?
The issue was he lost twice.
Integrity I think not IMHO
 

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I lost second time . TD said I played wrong guy. Put me back in .I won Tourament. Ha
Like I said before:
Welcome to the pool world.
Sounds like the Tournment Director is worse at the job than I originally thought.
Tournament was a travesty
 

Clusterbuster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is probably a case of people just not thinking ahead. If the player who won his match but withdrew from the tournament had just played until he was down on the nine to win the match and then unscrewed his cue and said, “I gotta go. I’m forfeiting,” there would be no problem. It sounds like nobody was acting in bad faith except maybe the guy who knew of the situation, let it continue without protest and then complained when he lost to the person who should not have advanced with two losses. Still, TD should not have let the two-loss player continue if he knew of the situation while he was still playing.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There’s what should’ve happened, versus what did happen.

What should’ve happened, is that once your buddy lost the second match he was out and the player that was supposed to play the guy who dropped out next should‘ve won by forfeit and advanced on.

Sadly, the TD made a bad decision, but it’s his tournament and his decision has to stand. You can’t change a decision after the fact because you don’t like the results of that decision.

Hopefully the TD learned a lesson here…

In "friendly" local tournaments I have seen this happen before. In fact I have done it. I played, won, but had to leave due to time issues, and told the person in charge to give the win to my opponent as a concession by me.
 

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
In "friendly" local tournaments I have seen this happen before. In fact I have done it. I played, won, but had to leave due to time issues, and told the person in charge to give the win to my opponent as a concession by me.
Sort of makes a travesty of the calcutta if there is one.
 

jtompilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is probably a case of people just not thinking ahead. If the player who won his match but withdrew from the tournament had just played until he was down on the nine to win the match and then unscrewed his cue and said, “I gotta go. I’m forfeiting,” there would be no problem. It sounds like nobody was acting in bad faith except maybe the guy who knew of the situation, let it continue without protest and then complained when he lost to the person who should not have advanced with two losses. Still, TD should not have let the two-loss player continue if he knew of the situation while he was still playing.
Just like fast Eddie :ROFLMAO:
 

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
100% depends on the situation and the tournament. If it's a casual tournament and the opponent that had to leave conceded to the guy, no big deal.
Otherwise, the TD is probably not too good at directing.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A friend just won a tournament, or at least they thought they did.
They were in the one loss side. Lost again but opponent decided to drop out, so they continued and ended up winning the whole thing.
Now opponents, who at the time knew what had happened and still allowed this to happen, are crying sour grapes after the fact.
At the time the tournament director allowed them to continue on. Now they want to invalidate the win after the fact?
In my opinion the win should stand since the powers that be allowed them to continue. If any fault is assessed it should pay solely on the shoulders of the people that chose to allow the matches to continue.
If your friend had already lost their second match, then he would definitely be knocked out of the tournament and the bye would go to the person who the winner would have been slated to play in the next round of the one loss bracket.

That happened in our weekly tournament recently. The person who lost, thought they might be able to move on since their opponent dropped out of the tournament due to time constraints after winning that match before starting the next match. I told the person that if their opponent had dropped out before shooting the match winning ball in, they would have advanced, but not after the match had already been completed. The opponent in the next round is the one that would get the bye.

As stated by others here though, if the TD made the decision to allow that person to continue and a number of matches were played after that, then the decision had been made and that person should have been allowed their win, regardless of whether or not the loser of the final match contested it.

Bottom line is that TD’s do make mistakes no different than officials, referees, umpires, etc. also make mistakes. As the player or team that got screwed, that’s just the way it goes.
 
Last edited:

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You don't win a match until the score is turned in. If he didn't tell the TD that he won, he forfeited THAT match, not the next match..

Jaden
The proper way to do this would be, if playing 8 ball, you run out your final rack and before pocketing the 8 you concede. Otherwise, once the 8 is pocketed you have won the match. You can't concede a match that has concluded. I know this is probably done a lot at bigger tourneys where there aren't many spectators, but you're asking for trouble if the match isn't properly conceded.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
The proper way to do this would be, if playing 8 ball, you run out your final rack and before pocketing the 8 you concede. Otherwise, once the 8 is pocketed you have won the match. You can't concede a match that has concluded. I know this is probably done a lot at bigger tourneys where there aren't many spectators, but you're asking for trouble if the match isn't properly conceded.
That's like saying in drag racing, the only way to concede is to not cross the finish line first. If the requirement is you go get weighed to ensure you're in compliance and you don't get weighed, you lose.

If it's winner reports the win to the TD and the winner leaves after the game is over without telling the TD, or better yet tells the TD he conceded the match, then the other player wins.

Jaden
 

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's like saying in drag racing, the only way to concede is to not cross the finish line first. If the requirement is you go get weighed to ensure you're in compliance and you don't get weighed, you lose.

If it's winner reports the win to the TD and the winner leaves after the game is over without telling the TD, or better yet tells the TD he conceded the match, then the other player wins.

Jaden
I understand it CAN play out that way, it's just not a good idea to do this. Keep in mind, we are talking about pool here, with a history of shady business. Doing things your way can lead to all sorts of needless speculation. So it's best for everyone involved if the match is properly conceded. I'm open to changing my opinion if you can make an argument that your way is actually better.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
That's like saying in drag racing, the only way to concede is to not cross the finish line first. If the requirement is you go get weighed to ensure you're in compliance and you don't get weighed, you lose.

If it's winner reports the win to the TD and the winner leaves after the game is over without telling the TD, or better yet tells the TD he conceded the match, then the other player wins.

Jaden

The drag racer isn't conceding. He violated a rule and was DQ'd. Same thing happens when the winner is light in circle track racing where they have to meet a minimum weigh after the race. It used to be funny to watch a big burly pit crew member in Freddy Fryer's team struggling to carry a one gallon water jug without it being obvious how heavy it was to swap out with the one in Freddy's car. The one going in was full of lead, weighed about eighty pounds best I recall.

Without a specific rule to cover things one way or another I feel the contest is over when the last ball falls. I have forfeit with a three ball roadmap on the table and they didn't even keep second place money for me despite the fact I was three balls away from winning the tournament.

Hu
 

benjaminwah

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Alllllright, the dust has settled so I can give all the details.

This was a local WPBA sponsored tournament. It was a qualifier to go to a larger tournament the WPBA is having in Wisconsin in December.

My friend's match that she lost in the loser bracket, her opponent told her she could have the match. This is a sticking point for some. I have been in this scenario, as have many of you. How each one of you want to handle this is up to you if it's YOUR tournament. I totally get the three lives point and think it's valid.

In this case it was known and accepted by the final three opponents. The tournament director accepted this and allowed her to continue.

What happened was after the dust settled the final opponent, who was in the hot seat, was a junior player from out of state. She had a coach there with her. One of her sponsors from Texas was upset that she lost and is the one that raised the stink about my friend winning the whole thing.

In my opinion if you know the scenario and still play the person you can't go back and complain. That would be like if you had a 15 minute late rule, your opponent is 17 minutes late and disqualified. You say it's cool and you will allow that person to play. If you lose you can't go back and say now it's not cool they should have been disqualified.

The real shitty thing is this is the first legit WPBA sponsored organization/events for women in the area. We have lots of great female players. The person who caused all the drama is a man from Texas affiliated with a sponsor of the girl that lost in the finals. He has ruined what these women had established. It wasn't perfect but it was a product of women here that wanted to build something for themselves.

The resolve is my friend keeps the win and the 2nd place player whose sponsor dude pitched a bitch is getting a paid entry to the WPBA tournament in Wisconsin. Seeing as she played my friend, knowing and accepting how she got there, lost, and shook her hand after she lost, I think that's crap.
 
Last edited:

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think that if the women, or any group, want to build something a good starting point is having clear rules and scrupulously following them. I don't really care what three other players agreed to - players should have no role in making rulings. The salient point is that the TD completely blew it. The rest of the stuff is pure fluff, IMO.

They should also adopt the rule from golf that opponents cannot agree to ignore a rule, the penalty being DQ for both players.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't know how it went down obviously but if the other players and officials had said it was OK or the contestant's call, a single player, particularly a junior player, would feel tremendous pressure to go along.

The wins are important to a junior player and their sponsor, this is one they should have had from the sound of things. The paid entry is nice, a win would have been nicer. In fairness though, it has to be noted the junior might have lost to another player too.

The young lady behaving with class when she lost has nothing to do with the fact she lost to a player who shouldn't have been playing. Her sponsor's rep was right even if they came off as a jackass, maybe were a jackass.

All water under the bridge and the paid entry is probably the best solution that could be arrived at after the fact. Hopefully all involved learned to follow the rules in the future.

Hu
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sort of makes a travesty of the calcutta if there is one.

That is a separate thing from the tournament. Anytime someone drops out of a tournament it will cause issues. But I don't worry much about side gambling when in a tournament.
 

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
That is a separate thing from the tournament. Anytime someone drops out of a tournament it will cause issues. But I don't worry much about side gambling when in a tournament.
Nor do I but some bet on it, no pun intended.
 
Top