Two new Covid vaccines to get us back in pool

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
While the mRNA vaccines are obviously not designed to alter your DNA, RNA is in fact genetic code. Turning my body into a mini spike-protein-manufacturing-plant is not something that I would ever agree to or think is a good idea.

There are reports of side effects that are very similar to what you would experience if you had the virus (see link) as well as a host other other significant adverse events (see pic).


Because RNA is genetic code, what happens if the vaccine degrades upon storage or during shipping? What will this very specific genetic code break down or degrade into and can anyone guarantee that the degradation products won't cause your body to manufacture something other than that specific spike protein?

Any technology that includes injecting genetic code into your body should set off big red flags for everyone IMO.
 

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Chembry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While the mRNA vaccines are obviously not designed to alter your DNA, RNA is in fact genetic code. Turning my body into a mini spike-protein-manufacturing-plant is not something that I would ever agree to or think is a good idea.

Yes, mRNA is in fact genetic code. Yes, your body will make the spike protein of the virus. You understand that correctly. What you aren't necessarily understanding is that the spike protein is a small portion of the virus. Your body will NOT make the virus.

The other part of misunderstanding is that the vaccine mRNA is only a very small quantity. Once your body uses that specific piece of mRNA, your body destroys it. Your body will NOT continually manufacture the spike protein. I will say this again, the mRNA used in the vaccine is biologically inert. After the spike protein is generated from that specific piece of mRNA, the mRNA is destroyed. Your body does this naturally for all mRNA, even the mRNA that your body produces.

There are reports of side effects that are very similar to what you would experience if you had the virus (see link) as well as a host other other significant adverse events (see pic).

I know the side effects, they are listed in the data package that I posted a link to. They are very similar to other vaccines. Some people don't get the flu vaccine, because they feel like they have the flu after vaccination. What you are experiencing is your bodies immune response.

For example, do you know why you get a temperature when you get sick? The simple answer is cause by your immune response, not a virus. When a white blood cell comes into contact with a pathogen (like a virus) it releases a pyrogen called IL-1. That signals other white blood cells to spring into action and all of them release IL-1. All of that IL-1 then travels to the hypothalamus in your brain. When they get there, they bind to the hypothalamus raising your body temperature. It's an immune response reaction.

Because RNA is genetic code, what happens if the vaccine degrades upon storage or during shipping? What will this very specific genetic code break down or degrade into and can anyone guarantee that the degradation products won't cause your body to manufacture something other than that specific spike protein?
Your comment in storage is a good one and a good conversation to have. Shipping and storage studies have to be performed for all approvals. Shipping and storage studies monitor for degradation. They were done here as well and I can provide a little insight. When shipping, you have to ship with a temp tale device that continuously monitors and records the temperature. In the case of Pfizer's vaccine, they manufactured a specific cooler to hold temperature for a specific period of time. If the vaccine Here is more information on that:

Here is the fact sheet that has specific instructions for handling/storage/destruction:

Any technology that includes injecting genetic code into your body should set off big red flags for everyone IMO.
Not if you understand the biology behind the technology. Genetic codes are already used in medicine. Ever heard of gene therapy? It's a lifesaver for some people with certain genetic conditions.

Here is a list of approved gene therapies:
 

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
Yes, mRNA is in fact genetic code. Yes, your body will make the spike protein of the virus. You understand that correctly. What you aren't necessarily understanding is that the spike protein is a small portion of the virus. Your body will NOT make the virus.

The other part of misunderstanding is that the vaccine mRNA is only a very small quantity. Once your body uses that specific piece of mRNA, your body destroys it. Your body will NOT continually manufacture the spike protein. I will say this again, the mRNA used in the vaccine is biologically inert. After the spike protein is generated from that specific piece of mRNA, the mRNA is destroyed. Your body does this naturally for all mRNA, even the mRNA that your body produces.


I know the side effects, they are listed in the data package that I posted a link to. They are very similar to other vaccines. Some people don't get the flu vaccine, because they feel like they have the flu after vaccination. What you are experiencing is your bodies immune response.

For example, do you know why you get a temperature when you get sick? The simple answer is cause by your immune response, not a virus. When a white blood cell comes into contact with a pathogen (like a virus) it releases a pyrogen called IL-1. That signals other white blood cells to spring into action and all of them release IL-1. All of that IL-1 then travels to the hypothalamus in your brain. When they get there, they bind to the hypothalamus raising your body temperature. It's an immune response reaction.


Your comment in storage is a good one and a good conversation to have. Shipping and storage studies have to be performed for all approvals. Shipping and storage studies monitor for degradation. They were done here as well and I can provide a little insight. When shipping, you have to ship with a temp tale device that continuously monitors and records the temperature. In the case of Pfizer's vaccine, they manufactured a specific cooler to hold temperature for a specific period of time. If the vaccine Here is more information on that:

Here is the fact sheet that has specific instructions for handling/storage/destruction:


Not if you understand the biology behind the technology. Genetic codes are already used in medicine. Ever heard of gene therapy? It's a lifesaver for some people with certain genetic conditions.

Here is a list of approved gene therapies:
I am well aware that the vaccine won't cause a person's body to make the actual virus. I never said that it did. The bottom line is, there are other ways to make a vaccine that don't include injecting genetic code into a person's body, to have your own body manufacture spike proteins or other foreign substances that a person's immune system can develop immunity too.

I've worked many years in the Pharma industry. In fact, I even worked years in the Stability Dept, where my job was to put batches on stability to support the drug's packaging and storage conditions and then to analyze the resulting data and write reports to justify the chosen packaging and storage conditions.

I am well aware how substances can degrade during storage and shipping. The label may require refrigerated conditions, but in many underdeveloped or poor countries they just don't have the infrastructure to ensure that the drugs are always stored at the labeled conditions.

If you personally feel comfortable taking the mRNA vaccines, go for it. I certainly do not.
 

Chembry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am well aware that the vaccine won't cause a person's body to make the actual virus. I never said that it did. The bottom line is, there are other ways to make a vaccine that don't include injecting genetic code into a person's body, to have your own body manufacture spike proteins or other foreign substances that a person's immune system can develop immunity too.

I've worked many years in the Pharma industry. In fact, I even worked years in the Stability Dept, where my job was to put batches on stability to support the drug's packaging and storage conditions and then to analyze the resulting data and write reports to justify the chosen packaging and storage conditions.

I am well aware how substances can degrade during storage and shipping. The label may require refrigerated conditions, but in many underdeveloped or poor countries they just don't have the infrastructure to ensure that the drugs are always stored at the labeled conditions.

If you personally feel comfortable taking the mRNA vaccines, go for it. I certainly do not.
I am sorry for assuming. I am glad you worked in pharma and have a good understanding of studies that need to be performed. I too work in pharma, CMC in fact. It is my job to produce and gather data (specifically module 3 files) for NDA's.

Yes, there are other ways to make a vaccine (other than direct mRNA) and those are in clinical trials. However, those that have read out, haven't been as effective or don't have any other data associated (adverse events, clinical trial protocols, etc...)

Sinopharm- uses an inactivated virus. There are no details other than efficacy (86%). Most aren't aware of Sinopharm, but they are a Chinese company. This vaccine was trialed in UAE.

Oxford/AZ-uses an adenovirus vector. There is one other adenovirus vaccine approved (2017) and it essentially does the same thing as mRNA vaccine. The adenovirus delivers genetic instructions for the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2. Same with mRNA viruses, these are only able to use the machinery of one cell before it's destroyed. The problem with adenovirus vectors is that most people will have immunity towards them (common cold) and will destroy the vector before it can do its job.

This is a tricky one. Overall efficacy of 70%
Complete writeup:

CanSino- also using an adenovirus vector. Haven't heard anything

J&J- Adenovirus vector. Also haven't heard anything yet

GSK/Sanofi- Using a recombinant protein version of the spike protein. This is a well known technique used for many vaccines. Many companies are using this approach, however GSK/Sanofi are the only ones who have read out.
The news isn't good: https://www.sanofi.com/en/media-room/press-releases/2020/2020-12-11-07-00-00

Here is a good breakdown of the techniques used and the companies using each technique.
This is an old post, but breaks everything down nicely.

FYI, I am only trying to correct misinformation. I am not trying to sway anyone in any direction. You are free to make your own decisions. What I don't want is someone to make a decision off of false information. Fact of the matter is that the mRNA vaccines have read out very well, which is why we are having this discussion and why they were approved for EUA (Pfizer) or up for EUA approval (Moderna).
 

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
I am sorry for assuming. I am glad you worked in pharma and have a good understanding of studies that need to be performed. I too work in pharma, CMC in fact. It is my job to produce and gather data (specifically module 3 files) for NDA's.

Yes, there are other ways to make a vaccine (other than direct mRNA) and those are in clinical trials. However, those that have read out, haven't been as effective or don't have any other data associated (adverse events, clinical trial protocols, etc...)

Sinopharm- uses an inactivated virus. There are no details other than efficacy (86%). Most aren't aware of Sinopharm, but they are a Chinese company. This vaccine was trialed in UAE.

Oxford/AZ-uses an adenovirus vector. There is one other adenovirus vaccine approved (2017) and it essentially does the same thing as mRNA vaccine. The adenovirus delivers genetic instructions for the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2. Same with mRNA viruses, these are only able to use the machinery of one cell before it's destroyed. The problem with adenovirus vectors is that most people will have immunity towards them (common cold) and will destroy the vector before it can do its job.

This is a tricky one. Overall efficacy of 70%
Complete writeup:

CanSino- also using an adenovirus vector. Haven't heard anything

J&J- Adenovirus vector. Also haven't heard anything yet

GSK/Sanofi- Using a recombinant protein version of the spike protein. This is a well known technique used for many vaccines. Many companies are using this approach, however GSK/Sanofi are the only ones who have read out.
The news isn't good: https://www.sanofi.com/en/media-room/press-releases/2020/2020-12-11-07-00-00

Here is a good breakdown of the techniques used and the companies using each technique.
This is an old post, but breaks everything down nicely.

FYI, I am only trying to correct misinformation. I am not trying to sway anyone in any direction. You are free to make your own decisions. What I don't want is someone to make a decision off of false information. Fact of the matter is that the mRNA vaccines have read out very well, which is why we are having this discussion and why they were approved for EUA (Pfizer) or up for EUA approval (Moderna).
I understand. My very last job in Pharma was doing exactly what your current job is. I worked in Regulatory Affairs in CMC also and managed a couple, large global products. I also developed and validated test methods to use to test the drugs, I was an Internal Company Auditor (global), and I managed the inspections that our company had by the FDA and other agencies. So I understand all aspects of the pharma process. I have no agenda against drugs or vaccines in general. I just don't think everyone should rush out and get vaccines for COVID, especially ones that include injecting genetic code into your body, since the odds of death from this virus are quite low for all but those over 70 years of age.
 

Chembry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you for posting this. I honestly think this guy gets it. He is saying everything I have been trying to say.

Regarding the allergic reactions he is talking about, I am currently listening to the FDA's meeting on the Moderna vaccine and there was a long discussion on this. Several MD's are questioning whether these are true anaphylaxis or moderate to severe allergic reactions, because there is a difference. This needs to be vetted out, and the reason why each reaction occurred. Until then, people with severe allergies will have to be excluded.

I couldn't agree with him more on the USA today syncytin-1 story. All it is is clickbait.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Well, the CEO of Pfizer is NOT going to take the vaccine. Of course, he sold much stock in the company. He's trying to put it off "not jumping the line in front of others". That's BS. He and his executives need to take it to show the country its good. If they don't even trust it, how are the people.

I will gladly give up my spot for him, so now he has no excuses.
 

justnum

Billiard Tech Researcher
Silver Member
I understand. My very last job in Pharma was doing exactly what your current job is. I worked in Regulatory Affairs in CMC also and managed a couple, large global products. I also developed and validated test methods to use to test the drugs, I was an Internal Company Auditor (global), and I managed the inspections that our company had by the FDA and other agencies. So I understand all aspects of the pharma process. I have no agenda against drugs or vaccines in general. I just don't think everyone should rush out and get vaccines for COVID, especially ones that include injecting genetic code into your body, since the odds of death from this virus are quite low for all but those over 70 years of age.
so they can inject new genetic codes.
does the genetic code make me super human like in the comics?

They aren't really giving much of a choice, Starting this anti-vax campaign is in bad taste. Especially if you know anyone that died during the first death wave in NYC.

What will it take for pool halls to reopen. I doubt any can manage bills all through 2021. But the pace makes it feel realistic.

Assuming tomorrow vaccinations start it could take months for the country to be vaccinated enough for a reopen staging.

Business communities for pool definitely got the shaft and political influence is showing based on reopenings.

Maybe the government thinks pool is small enough it should die out. other people say pool hall jobs are jobs people don't want in their "district"
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Enough with this science, can we just get back to calling each other names for wanting or not wanting a vaccine?
 

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
so they can inject new genetic codes.
does the genetic code make me super human like in the comics?

They aren't really giving much of a choice, Starting this anti-vax campaign is in bad taste. Especially if you know anyone that died during the first death wave in NYC.

What will it take for pool halls to reopen. I doubt any can manage bills all through 2021. But the pace makes it feel realistic.

Assuming tomorrow vaccinations start it could take months for the country to be vaccinated enough for a reopen staging.

Business communities for pool definitely got the shaft and political influence is showing based on reopenings.

Maybe the government thinks pool is small enough it should die out. other people say pool hall jobs are jobs people don't want in their "district"

I have a sneaky suspicion that many of the liberal run states and cities will continue to insist on mask wearing, social distancing, and business closures well after the vaccine has been made widely available. It's just a hunch though. It's based on what I think is coming for the financial system. They need people to stay in fear and in their houses. Protests and riots are more difficult to conduct from home.


_______
 

Chembry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If this is true, people would need to be given new shots every 2 months? No thanks.



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That isn’t necessarily true. The data is still being collected. Pfizer has data out to 120 days where the cumulative incidence rate of infection in vaccinated trial participants has remained flat (the same). While the placebo hast continued to increase. Moderna has the same data out to 100 days. All of this is in their respective FDA briefing books.

Immunological data has shown that immune response is essentially the same between vaccinated individuals and those that were naturally infected. The most recent data in naturally infected individuals, (study of 3,000 people), show strong t-cell response at 6 months post infection.

The good news is coronaviruses mutate relatively slow and all the mutations thus far haven’t escaped that antibody response.

One very important point is that those who were infected with SARS-CoV-1 (2002-2004), their antibodies faded over time, but still show a very strong t-cell response 17 years later.

I don’t think anyone would get vaccinated if immunity only lasted 2 months...
 
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SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As a healthcare provider, I am getting the first dose tomorrow....will be nice when everyone who wants it is vaccinated. Really the only way to end this nonsense.

As far as pool...it is basically done here in New York until next fall.
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is important to say that the mRNA being used in the vaccine is biologically inert. They can't and don't interact with your DNA in any way. So not they can't change your DNA.
I disagree with only one thing you wrote:: The vacinne is biologically inert.

It is not biologically inert, the mRNA caused your cells to make the spike protiens, that is in no way inert unless you are using the word pair "bilogically inert" in some special way not converyed by the two defintions of those two words alone.
 

HQueen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For myself I have no plans to get a vaccine. Over 99% Survival rate. I’ve never seen the level of stupidity as I have with this. People are scared because of nonstop TV programming telling them to be scared.
Government choosing what businesses can stay open and who has to close. Close the buffets and the bars but it’s ok to go to Walmart. Stay 6’ apart unless you want to fly on an airplane then it’s ok to be right next to each other.
The utter ridiculousness of placing my order in a plastic box for me to grab, somehow this keeps me safe?
Wear that mask walking to your table in the restaurant but once you sit down you’re in the magical Covid free zone.
I keep hearing about risks of giving someone the virus if you don’t wear a mask yet everyone has their eyes that can allow the virus into your body, unless you’re wearing a face shield.
The football games may be the most ridiculous of all, some coaches wearing masks, some around their chin, few players wearing masks and then celebrating with chest bumps, yelling face to face, lol.
If you want to wear the mask, get the vaccine etc, it’s your life.
I’ll take my chances.
 

gerryf

Well-known member
Something i read elsewhere....

1500 people each year die from freezing to death. So with a fatality rate of 0.0005%, it's ridiculous to wear a coat. And in fact, many of those people who froze to death were wearing a coat, so clearly coats don't make a difference.
 

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Something i read elsewhere....

1500 people each year die from freezing to death. So with a fatality rate of 0.0005%, it's ridiculous to wear a coat. And in fact, many of those people who froze to death were wearing a coat, so clearly coats don't make a difference.
Some people wear coats in summer, in Florida. I choose not to.

I’m thankful to have the choice.
 

HNTFSH

Birds, Bass & Bottoms
Silver Member
I figure when "experts" and "scientists" have this surrounded on all but different sides it just boils down to "opinion" which everyone has.
 
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