Two Shot Foul

Tennesseejoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm so old I can't remember....In 9 ball 2 shot shootout, what are the differences of playing 2 consecutive fouls versus 2 fouls by the same player?
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
I would ONLY play ‘two fouls by the same player’....some places played ‘any two fouls’
in two fouls by the same player, the onus remains on the player that takes the first foul.
 

Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We played 2 consec. fouls by the same player. Only way i've ever played 2-shot roll-out.
The problem with that form of pushout is that : I push-you push back-I push-you push back-etc. I played at Weenie Beenies room for 9 years. Pushout was played by 95% of players. It was played : The player that made the 2nd consecutive foul gave up ball in hand. All balls were spotted, and make the 9 ball and scratch, CB behind the line- 9 ball on the spot. 1 foul was designed to speed up tournament play by the Jansco brothers and Weenie Beenie around 69-70. Players would come out of the tournament room and gamble playing pushout. I saw in the 70's maybe 3 matches played using 1 foul. 1 foul was even worse by 'texas express' rules and jumping the CB, which has been illegal since pocket billiards was invented.
pushout forever !
LOL
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
The problem with that form of pushout is that : I push-you push back-I push-you push back-etc. I played at Weenie Beenies room for 9 years. Pushout was played by 95% of players. It was played : The player that made the 2nd consecutive foul gave up ball in hand. All balls were spotted, and make the 9 ball and scratch, CB behind the line- 9 ball on the spot. 1 foul was designed to speed up tournament play by the Jansco brothers and Weenie Beenie around 69-70. Players would come out of the tournament room and gamble playing pushout. I saw in the 70's maybe 3 matches played using 1 foul. 1 foul was even worse by 'texas express' rules and jumping the CB, which has been illegal since pocket billiards was invented.
pushout forever !
LOL
I had this out with the Barber on the West Coast....it’s not how it works.
if you push out, you’re on one foul
if I push back, then I’m on one foul
if you say ‘shoot again’ and I foul, you now get ball in hand
if you shoot and foul, I get ball in hand

Whats not to like?
 

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What I would give to see two top players play two-shot push-out, play by the game, pay after every game, and put the cash on the rail. Somebody is libel to get their nose open and the session could go 24-36-48 hours! Rail-birds and sweaters can jump in and out of the action. Nobody locks up anything. Nobody is committed to anything. Play until you get it all or can't take it any more. Oh how I remember those days. Nobody practiced because there was no time for it. There was too much action!
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
What I would give to see two top players play two-shot push-out, play by the game, pay after every game, and put the cash on the rail. Somebody is libel to get their nose open and the session could go 24-36-48 hours! Rail-birds and sweaters can jump in and out of the action. Nobody locks up anything. Nobody is committed to anything. Play until you get it all or can't take it any more. Oh how I remember those days. Nobody practiced because there was no time for it. There was too much action!
You remember, Paul, and I agree 100%!!

Push Out, Roll Out or we used to call it 2 Shot Shoot Out is 7-10 times more entertaining, exciting and strategic than the 1 foul carnival rules. When I was on the road in the 80s and early 90s EVERYONE that gambled played TWO FOUL, they would scoff at any "wussy" that wanted to "Kick at their money" - that's when the players were extremely tough, guys like Buddy Hall, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Bobby Leggs, Omaha John, Matlock, Larry Hubbart, Fat Randy, Earl Strickland, and, of course Paul Schofield were all Monsters playing the Roll Out Rules.

Two fouls by the same person means you push out, (you're on 1 foul) and if your opponent makes you shoot again and you foul it's ball-in-hand...if the other player took the push out and fouled, that was two fouls and there was a ball in hand.....that was the most popular way.....it was called "Any Two Fouls Push Out".

The other way was two fouls by the same person, this means the same player had to make 2 consecutive fouls for there to be a ball in hand.

The SPOT SHOT was a big part of pocket billiards, then it was taken out to speed up the game and make it more lucky so more people would play in the tournaments......the rule changes were all done by promoters, and tournament directors, not players......this was a big mistake, SNOOKER is lucky that never happened or they would probably be using jump cues and other gaff equipment or rules.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You remember, Paul, and I agree 100%!!

Push Out, Roll Out or we used to call it 2 Shot Shoot Out is 7-10 times more entertaining, exciting and strategic than the 1 foul carnival rules. When I was on the road in the 80s and early 90s EVERYONE that gambled played TWO FOUL, they would scoff at any "wussy" that wanted to "Kick at their money" - that's when the players were extremely tough, guys like Buddy Hall, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Bobby Leggs, Omaha John, Matlock, Larry Hubbart, Fat Randy, Earl Strickland, and, of course Paul Schofield were all Monsters playing the Roll Out Rules.

Two fouls by the same person means you push out, (you're on 1 foul) and if your opponent makes you shoot again and you foul it's ball-in-hand...if the other player took the push out and fouled, that was two fouls and there was a ball in hand.....that was the most popular way.....it was called "Any Two Fouls Push Out".

The other way was two fouls by the same person, this means the same player had to make 2 consecutive fouls for there to be a ball in hand.

The SPOT SHOT was a big part of pocket billiards, then it was taken out to speed up the game and make it more lucky so more people would play in the tournaments......the rule changes were all done by promoters, and tournament directors, not players......this was a big mistake, SNOOKER is lucky that never happened or they would probably be using jump cues and other gaff equipment or rules.

The push out rules made the game more interesting.

In today’s game, players will duck rather than going for something that may be risky. The penalty is too great if you lose the cue ball...BIH.

In push out, players would go for circus shots because they had a relief valve...the push if they locked themselves up.

It made the game more fun to watch and it led to some strategic moves, kind of like one-pocket.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
SNOOKER is lucky that never happened or they would probably be using jump cues and other gaff equipment or rules.
Snooker uses the 'free ball' rule, so if after the first foul the incoming player doesn't have a legal option he shoots what he declares.
 

Tennesseejoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Any Two Fouls Push Out" is how I remember it...Scratch on the break, cue ball in the kitchen....Scratch on the 9 ball, cue ball, in the kitchen...Any other foul, was this ball in hand anywhere???
 

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When I was nineteen I got some weight and played Jimmy Marino for a bunch of money. It was by the game and pay after every rack. We lived three hours apart. We made arrangements and met halfway in a town called Butler Pennsylvania. I was told by another good player to pay close attention to Jimmy’s push-out game. I did and I learned. To this day I have never played, known or seen another player who understood and played the push-out strategy stronger than Jimmy Marino. His strategy was somewhat confusing and unique. He never taught or told anybody what he was doing. That session we had turned out to be a 30 hour grueling experience. I studied his every move. By the end of it, his push-out game was my push-out game. I got it.
 
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rikdee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You remember, Paul, and I agree 100%!!

Push Out, Roll Out or we used to call it 2 Shot Shoot Out is 7-10 times more entertaining, exciting and strategic than the 1 foul carnival rules. When I was on the road in the 80s and early 90s EVERYONE that gambled played TWO FOUL, they would scoff at any "wussy" that wanted to "Kick at their money" - that's when the players were extremely tough, guys like Buddy Hall, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Bobby Leggs, Omaha John, Matlock, Larry Hubbart, Fat Randy, Earl Strickland, and, of course Paul Schofield were all Monsters playing the Roll Out Rules.

Two fouls by the same person means you push out, (you're on 1 foul) and if your opponent makes you shoot again and you foul it's ball-in-hand...if the other player took the push out and fouled, that was two fouls and there was a ball in hand.....that was the most popular way.....it was called "Any Two Fouls Push Out".

The other way was two fouls by the same person, this means the same player had to make 2 consecutive fouls for there to be a ball in hand.

The SPOT SHOT was a big part of pocket billiards, then it was taken out to speed up the game and make it more lucky so more people would play in the tournaments......the rule changes were all done by promoters, and tournament directors, not players......this was a big mistake, SNOOKER is lucky that never happened or they would probably be using jump cues and other gaff equipment or rules.
 

rikdee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, that is the way I learned to play 2 foul: we'd say, "if you accept the shot, you accept the foul." IOW, if you played from your opponen's push, you are on one foul.
 

rikdee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Different areas had their own version. I could see playing either way. Get the rules straight first and then get it on.
Yeah, that's no doubt the case. Now dead, but (IMHO) it was a skilled twist to what is played today.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah, that's no doubt the case. Now dead, but (IMHO) it was a skilled twist to what is played today.
Much better way to play. Games were won more by shooting than ducking. Lot of strategy in how/when/where you pushed-out to. Had to make spot shots under pressure too.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Much better way to play. Games were won more by shooting than ducking. Lot of strategy in how/when/where you pushed-out to. Had to make spot shots under pressure too.
Yes, 2 FOUL Rollout is demonstratively better - I actually put both games into a formula, and it was amazing how much better the 2 Foul game is when it comes to forcing players to make difficult shots to win rather than play safeties, it's also has better entertainment, excitement and strategic value.
 
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