What causes so many new shafts to warp??

[Maniac]

Reading the two latest threads about the poor quality of the newer model Meucci cues, especially the problems with so many warped shafts has got me wondering....so how the heck are so many shafts warping? I'm no expert on cues, but it seems to me that the wood is not being sufficiently allowed to dry before the production process is started. Am I right here or is it something else? I only make this comment based on my experience in gunstock making where my dad would let his blanks dry out for a minimum of two years before he started carving wood off of them.
I would think that a cuemaker that charges as much for a production cue as Meucci does would take this matter a little more seriously before they find themselves out of business. I mean, I purchased a cheap, p.o.s. K-Mart cue back in the seventies for about $15 (it's now used with my 'moosehead" bridge). It was recently "discovered" still in the cheap-o vinyl soft case that came with it in a corner of my garage (one that gets temperatures varying from the teens to well over 120 degrees). It's been in there at least 16 years. It's useless as a shooter as the joints are shot to hell. But, amazingly enough, the shaft is still perfectly straight. Sure does have me wondering what Meucci is doing wrong. What do y'all think they are doing wrong???

Maniac

 

[Maniac]

WHAT???? No opinions from the faithful ??? There's headlines for tomorrows newspaper !!!

Maniac

 

[BVal]

My guess would be the same as yours. They are not letting the wood dry long enough. Either that or they are using a wood that is not very high quality to save money or increase profit margin. Just a guess though. I have owned a Meucci in the past and my wife has 2 right now (she no longer plays with) and neither of us have had a problem with warpage.

 

[jhendri2]

Not properly curing the wood, turning the wood too quickly, not using nelsonite to stabalize. Basically too many shortcuts. Too many shortcuts is why people are loosing interest Meucci. IMHO the old Originals and the new ones up to maybe 1992 or '93 are pretty good cues.

Jim

 

[elvicash]

Wood Quality / Moisture Content

Cutting too much too fast

 

[jed1894]

I own 7 meucci cues with extra shafts for each. I have old ones and I have new ones. I have no dots, red dots and black dots. Most of the guys (anywhere from 5 to 6 people) I play with weekly have Meucci cues...some old, but most of them are new and purchased within the last couple of years. I plan on buying more when I run across good deals on ebay. However, now that I have a custom cue, the Meucci(s) will be stored and kept for my children.

I am by no means a Meucci supported because I also believe their service is very very poor. Try calling them for something and you'll find out what I mean. However, none of my shafts are warped in any fashion and they all play very good. The older shafts seem to play better for me. I don't doubt people out there have warped shafts from Meucci, but I've never seen one with mine or any of my friends. I must add that I take very good care of my cues and I don't let anyone hit with them and I store them in proper cases and never leave them propt up, etc. On the other hand, my friends, who mostly play while drinking, don't take very good care of their sticks, but they're hold up fine.

P.S. please don't bash me because my cues are not warped.

JED

 

[BVal]

P.S. please don't bash me because my cues are not warped.

JED

why would someone bash you for that? LOL

 

[manwon]

Reading the two latest threads about the poor quality of the newer model Meucci cues, especially the problems with so many warped shafts has got me wondering....so how the heck are so many shafts warping? I'm no expert on cues, but it seems to me that the wood is not being sufficiently allowed to dry before the production process is started. Am I right here or is it something else? I only make this comment based on my experience in gunstock making where my dad would let his blanks dry out for a minimum of two years before he started carving wood off of them.
I would think that a cuemaker that charges as much for a production cue as Meucci does would take this matter a little more seriously before they find themselves out of business. I mean, I purchased a cheap, p.o.s. K-Mart cue back in the seventies for about $15 (it's now used with my 'moosehead" bridge). It was recently "discovered" still in the cheap-o vinyl soft case that came with it in a corner of my garage (one that gets temperatures varying from the teens to well over 120 degrees). It's been in there at least 16 years. It's useless as a shooter as the joints are shot to hell. But, amazingly enough, the shaft is still perfectly straight. Sure does have me wondering what Meucci is doing wrong. What do y'all think they are doing wrong???

Maniac

I have a little information that I can add to this topic concerning the Meucci shafts.

First of all the company had some financial difficulties close to four years ago. Their supplies of shaft wood were greatly if not completely exhausted and many supplies stopped dealing with them until the company was out of the red.

During this same time frame Meucci came out with their infamous Black Dot shaft as a partial answer to their dilemma. This shaft to this day is what is made for all Meucci cues unless the Non-laminated Red Dot shaft is requested during dealer orders.

The Black Dot shaft is a flat laminated shaft, which means that a number of pieces of different wood ( some complete sections and some stripes of wood) non-pie shaped are pressed in a mold where adhesive is injected under extreme pressure and high temperature into 30 plus inch squares that are turned round.

These shafts are very very temperature sensitive and will not in my experience stay completely straight. I am uncertain if it is the materials used, the lamination process, or mis-handling at the factory.

These shafts are also prone to de-laminate with normal use. The moisture from your hand appears to loosen the adhesive on the surface of the shaft, and unless a person contours to sand them they almost always have a rough feel to them after extended use. Even cleaning and buffing and sealing sometimes will not solve this problem.

I have also had a number of problems with the Red Dot shafts warping during shipping in the summer when it is hot. This I suspect is due to using wood that has not aged for a long period of and is treated with a stabilizer to compensate for this problem. I also think the problem is due to turning the un-aged wood to quickly to keep up with production requirements.

Have a nice day

Manwon

 

[Matthys]

I have a little information that I can add to this topic concerning the Meucci shafts.

First of all the company had some financial difficulties close to four years ago. Their supplies of shaft wood were greatly if not completely exhausted and many supplies stopped dealing with them until the company was out of the red.

During this same time frame Meucci came out with their infamous Black Dot shaft as a partial answer to their dilemma. This shaft to this day is what is made for all Meucci cues unless the Non-laminated Red Dot shaft is requested during dealer orders.

The Black Dot shaft is a flat laminated shaft, which means that a number of pieces of different wood ( some complete sections and some stripes of wood) non-pie shaped are pressed in a mold where adhesive is injected under extreme pressure and high temperature into 30 plus inch squares that are turned round.

These shafts are very very temperature sensitive and will not in my experience stay completely straight. I am uncertain if it is the materials used, the lamination process, or mis-handling at the factory.

These shafts are also prone to de-laminate with normal use. The moisture from your hand appears to loosen the adhesive on the surface of the shaft, and unless a person contours to sand them they almost always have a rough feel to them after extended use. Even cleaning and buffing and sealing sometimes will not solve this problem.

I have also had a number of problems with the Red Dot shafts warping during shipping in the summer when it is hot. This I suspect is due to using wood that has not aged for a long period of and is treated with a stabilizer to compensate for this problem. I also think the problem is due to turning the un-aged wood to quickly to keep up with production requirements.

Have a nice day

Manwon

I have to agree with you. I think most new shafts warp because they are just made so fast. you really can't turn a shaft in less than 6 months and expect it to stay really straight for a long time. I'm not positive but I suspect most of this laminated shaft business started for a couple reasons. the First reason is they wanted to figure out a way to turn shafts faster and laminates will tend to stay straight cause the woods are all moving different directions and each piece supports the next, 2 they needed to figure out a way to use extra wood they had laying around. I could be wrong. shrugs... I do know missouri is 1 massive torture testing ground for shafts though. Super hot and humid summers, bitter cold and dry winters (usually). I slow turn everything, nelsonite it in between turns. take a long time to let it cure up.

 

[seanjonsean]

well all shafts have some warpage right? but i think only if u use a balancer u can tell ? im very intrested in buying a "tiger shaft" i hope i dont have this problem ,im sure extreme weather and the way peop take care of their stuff has a lot to do with it..

 

[seanjonsean]

where do u store ure case and cue??

...in a locker? safe?under bed ?attic? where do u guys feel safe leaving ure prized cue ure money maker ,as for me id rather not say but its not as safe as i would like... ooops!!!!!!! i goofed and i wanted to post this as new thread ...

 

[Fatboy]

green wood, and not having straight grain to start with, it takes years for wood to "season" thats why Tad cues as an example are big $$$ because the trees were sut down along time ago. Kiln drying wood sorta works but it fails sometimes McDermott is an example. The older the wood the better.

 

[ScottR]

Mother Nature.

As in the way trees grow and the environment in which the shaft exists during building and after.

Wood moves. It is a fact of life.

 

[MrLucky]

two reasons !

Reading the two latest threads about the poor quality of the newer model Meucci cues, especially the problems with so many warped shafts has got me wondering....so how the heck are so many shafts warping? I'm no expert on cues, but it seems to me that the wood is not being sufficiently allowed to dry before the production process is started. Am I right here or is it something else? I only make this comment based on my experience in gunstock making where my dad would let his blanks dry out for a minimum of two years before he started carving wood off of them.
I would think that a cuemaker that charges as much for a production cue as Meucci does would take this matter a little more seriously before they find themselves out of business. I mean, I purchased a cheap, p.o.s. K-Mart cue back in the seventies for about $15 (it's now used with my 'moosehead" bridge). It was recently "discovered" still in the cheap-o vinyl soft case that came with it in a corner of my garage (one that gets temperatures varying from the teens to well over 120 degrees). It's been in there at least 16 years. It's useless as a shooter as the joints are shot to hell. But, amazingly enough, the shaft is still perfectly straight. Sure does have me wondering what Meucci is doing wrong. What do y'all think they are doing wrong???

Maniac

1) many of your old cue companies are being bought by asian conglomerates that are for the most part not putting the time in to cure the wood properly and to use the strict manufacturing guidelines that were originally in effect !
2) many folks that buy these new Cues do not use wisdom in storing and caring for them and then they complain when they warp!

Having said that.. I own a collection of 14 Cues ranging from McDermotts to Samsara's and none have ever warped! My McDermotts are kept in the car and used 3-5 times a week one of which is 20 years old (D15) and one of which is about 9 months old ! if you go to the following link you will see in detail why they do not warp and why most of your other production cuemakers are not of the same quality of detail in their manufacturing process!http://www.mcdermottcue.com/McDermottFactoryTour.mpg