What does it take to "Play Hard" that I don't have.

CaptainJR

CaptainJR

Shiver me timbers.
Silver Member
I'm sure it looks like sometimes I don't care if I win or not. I have a friend, two of them actually that give every shot 100%. One of the friends I'm talking about rarely losses. The other isn't as good a player, but I've seen this win matches for him that I didn't expect him to win.

I've even sat and watched others that are like me and said to myself, "I don't want to be like that". Then I go right back to it. Just playing well for a while till I get a little pleased with myself. Then goof off for a while and end up having a losing day.

I just don't understand why I don't "Play Hard" all the time. I do it at times, but normally not for an entire match. I win a lot of matches, certainly more than I lose. I know that if I could do this I'd end up a lot higher in the tournaments than I do now.

Being that I do realize what I'm talking about here, I don't understand why I don't do it. If I didn't know it, that would be one thing, but I know that I need to do this and still don't get it done.

Some kind of super duper desire to win that I don't seem to have. Is it that I really don't care that much? Do you think this is something you can learn to do? Or am I just SOL


Thanks for letting me vent.
JR
 
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CaptainJR said:
I'm sure it looks like sometimes I don't care if I win or not. I have a friend, two of them actually that give every shot 100%. One of the friends I'm talking about rarely losses. The other isn't as good a player, but I've seen this win matches for him that I didn't expect him to win.

I've even sat and watched others that are like me and said to myself, "I don't want to be like that". Then I go right back to it. Just playing well for a while till I get a little pleased with myself. Then goof off for a while and end up having a losing day.

I just don't understand why I don't "Play Hard" all the time. I do it at times, but normally not for an entire match. I win a lot of matches, certainly more than I lose. I know that if I could do this I'd end up a lot higher in the tournaments than I do now.

Being that I do realize what I'm talking about here, I don't understand why I don't do it. If I didn't know it, that would be one thing, but I know that I need to do this and still don't get it done.

Some kind of super duper desire to win that I don't seem to have. Is it that I really don't care that much? Do you think this is something you can learn to do? Or am I just SOL


Thanks for letting me vent.
JR
Click to expand...

Cap'n,

I've struggled with this same problem over the years, I've found that it's rooted in undisciplined practice. Whenever I start to feel myself doing this, I go practice and FORCE myself to give 100% concentration to every shot and I have to hit it perfectly. If I catch myself not trying or easing up, I rake the balls and start over. I try to literally not let myself shoot until I am 100% committed to the shot and what I'm trying to do with it. Sometimes it might take me 3+ minutes per shot.

What I'm trying to do is force myself into the discipline of a) make sure that I have the right strategy for the shot and am perfectly clear about what I need to do and b) Make sure to make the shot exactly as I envisioned.

Then when I go play, it's easier fall into the routine of figuring out what to do, make sure I make it, and continue. ( Before all the slow play people pop up, I'm not advocating slow play, just deliberate practice )

I find a couple of 'punishment' practices like this and I become extremely focused. If I start to slip up again, I know I'm in for another long, uncomfortable session.

Cheers,
RC
 
Captain, maybe you should make a list of reasons that "winning" isn't necessarly the most important thing in life. I am the same way you are about it. Personally, I would rather have a good time (goof off) than be dead serious all the time. We, you and I, will never be pros. We can play and have a wonderful time though. That's what's in it for me.JMHO
Purdman
 
Different possibilities

Maybe you don't give it your all because you have other priorities in life. Or you have not developed a compulsive obsessive disorder forcing you to practice 14 hours a day until you are perfect. Or maybe you still enjoy it for the sport and the relaxation it brings you. Sounds to me that you are not the problem, about your "friends"...well I don't know. Life is too short to compare your abilities to others and worry about it. Have fun.
 
I think this is a childhood/personality thing.

Some people were raised that the worst thing in the world you can ever do is lose. And this includes 2nd place. 2nd place is a loser.

One guy I know refused to take the money he won when he got 4th place. 4th place was an insult to him. Not good enough. It was not 1st place.

Another player was not happy with a 2nd place win. It was not 1st place. He was quite disappointed with his playing.

One guy I know says 2nd place is the 1st place loser!

Then there are those who get quite ticked off if they don't get 1st place. Their whole evening is WRECKED! They are miserable. They look like they just learned their father passed away. These guys will be seen slamming the cue ball down on the table if it scratches. Throwing their cue out the door when they mess up. Getting into heated arguments about if a shot was a foul or not.

Winning is *everything* to these folks.

I on the other hand set reasonable goals for myself. I am happy if I am working on a part of my game and am successful with these shots. I may lose the match, but I am happy that I was able to do something I couldn't do before. Happy that I am learning a new trick.

And of course the more things I learn and get good at, the more I win. But it is not the end of the world to me if I lose. I just try to do my best and have a good time. I think having a good time is more important to me than winning. But note that when I am having a good time, I'm relaxed and therefore am more likely to play well and sometimes win! (Against those stressed out types discussed above that is...)

Relax and have fun!
 
This is some real good info. that only people who play the game for enjoyment can explain.

I have a very difficult time balancing my very competitive nature (why do I practice and look for play tips if I don't want to become a better shooter?) and keeping it a fun, enjoyable, social activity.

I think that we all have to and take it easy on ourselves, and accept that some night we just don't have it. Playing your best personal game takes tremendous focus, and, for the most part, we are up to the task more often than not.
 
Pool requires a level of concentration that is abnormal among the sports. And this is a former tournament chess player speaking.

I think we lose concentration because our energy level lowers during a match, and then our self-discipline wavers.

I think the question is a little more complex. I think the question is: How do we give 100% on each shot with the least amount of energy spent???

I know, for myself, I've had several sessions where I gave 100% on every shot and played horrible. The reason for that is because I was trying too hard, falling out of rythm, and getting exhausted.

The balance between concetration and relaxation is key, IMHO.
 
HI Cap'n,

Winning or losing should not be the focus. Being self content that you know you gave it your best effort in the match is what is important, winning or losing IMHO.
I am a very competitive person. I want to excel at whatever I choose to do. I also take pride in my composure and self control. I do not make an ass out of myself by expressing my negative emotions when something doesn't go my way at the table. I worked very hard at this as well. Temper tantrums make it too easy for other to chastize you. Handling failure with no reaction, gets noticed and leaves a lasting impression on on-lookers on your positive self controlled composure.
During my practice sessions, I develop my concentration skills as follows. I set a number that I must meet, whether it be five complete, correctly exectuted drills, or 10 consecutive shots of the same type made in a row. If I do not meet my goal, I start over from the beginning. Having the self motivation to do this will increase your contration level TEN FOLD. Believe me, nothing sucks more than missing the last ball in the 5th set of a drill. BTW, if you throw a fit (lose you composure, I dont care if no one's there to see it) you do the drill over again twice correctly.
If you really want to tackle your concentration issues, this will fix it.
 
lewdo26 said:
Pool requires a level of concentration that is abnormal among the sports. And this is a former tournament chess player speaking.


I don't think that pool requires more concentration than chess. I remember marathon blitz session 5, 3, or 2 minute games where for hours concentration never swayed even for a second (exception when setting up pieces). You cannot play chess at top level (Master and above) without concentrating all the time.

The problem with pool is that there are many elements mind, body and spirit. Trying to combine all into one harmonious machine. Some things should be automatic like the stroke but they are not. Pool should be simple, deliver the cue in a straight line and everything else follows, easier said than done.
Click to expand...
 
Wolven said:
lewdo26 said:
Pool requires a level of concentration that is abnormal among the sports. And this is a former tournament chess player speaking.


I don't think that pool requires more concentration than chess. I remember marathon blitz session 5, 3, or 2 minute games where for hours concentration never swayed even for a second (exception when setting up pieces). You cannot play chess at top level (Master and above) without concentrating all the time.

The problem with pool is that there are many elements mind, body and spirit. Trying to combine all into one harmonious machine. Some things should be automatic like the stroke but they are not. Pool should be simple, deliver the cue in a straight line and everything else follows, easier said than done.
Click to expand...

I happen to agree with lewdo. I just believe his responce was to short to give you the details. I understand what you are saying Wolven and I will agree with you to a point.

Playing pool at a high level is like playing chess and stacking a house of cards at the same time. Pool unlike chess requires fine tuned motor skills and using your grey matter at the same time. Trying to control a shaking hand in a big moment just doesnt happen in chess.
Click to expand...
 
i'm in the same boat, but i find myself playing my hardest in pressure situations and the other times like messing around or just playing with friends i don't try or play hard, and i think this is why times i go through my slumps cause i don't play consistent each time at the table, i am going to have to work on that more LOL. But in leagues if i have to win my game to win the round then i play my hardest and in money matches i find myself playing hard so i can count on that anyways. Good thread.
 
I think your question was also your answer...

Captain

I think you hit the nail on the head in your first sentence - 'it looks like I don't care if I win or not.'

Maybe you don't...but I think you might be like a lot of us who care about winning...but maybe just not enough to make it an occupation.

Cueandcushion pointed out the compulsion/obsession that drives some people to be the best they can be...whether pool or other endeavors.

Others here have responded sensibly by pointing out that you've probably made the choice to favor enjoyment of the game over perfect self-control, mastery, and world championships...

Just because the results of a pool game are not life or death doesn't mean that we don't care about winning...we just care about winning other things besides pool games...

Seems to me you've made a sensible choice...still we can wonder what might have been if we pushed and applied ourselves...
 
CaptainJR said:
I'm sure it looks like sometimes I don't care if I win or not. I have a friend, two of them actually that give every shot 100%. One of the friends I'm talking about rarely losses. The other isn't as good a player, but I've seen this win matches for him that I didn't expect him to win.

I've even sat and watched others that are like me and said to myself, "I don't want to be like that". Then I go right back to it. Just playing well for a while till I get a little pleased with myself. Then goof off for a while and end up having a losing day.

I just don't understand why I don't "Play Hard" all the time. I do it at times, but normally not for an entire match. I win a lot of matches, certainly more than I lose. I know that if I could do this I'd end up a lot higher in the tournaments than I do now.

Being that I do realize what I'm talking about here, I don't understand why I don't do it. If I didn't know it, that would be one thing, but I know that I need to do this and still don't get it done.

Some kind of super duper desire to win that I don't seem to have. Is it that I really don't care that much? Do you think this is something you can learn to do? Or am I just SOL


Thanks for letting me vent.
JR
Click to expand...

As billy bob said has a lot to do with personality traits. For people like myself, money does not need to be on the line. I just want to win. But in your case I don't think you are a lost cause. If you didn't care whether you won or lost, you wouldn't have posted this. Perhaps you just have to remember this desire when you play. You said that you goof off later, maybe you should stay serious about your game when playing. Leave the goofing off for your friends and family.
 
this is the exact reason there is a whole book based on this one subject its called I CAME TO WIN.by the monk it really is all the attiude in wich you look at the game.the friend you talk about that always gives 100% is an i came to win player thats his attuide to playing pool.it is an art to master and some people will just never get it,and some are just born it and do this in evreything in there life.

there are ways to improve your 100% shooting attuide tho
eg dont ever play social matchs that have no meaning,if your not giving it your all take breaks.
 
theres nothing wrong with not having i came to win attuide but you will never reach the top with out it.its up to you whats your purpose????
 
It might be the way you concentrate. If you make concentration an effort, you will naturally want or need to take a break from it.

However, if concentration takes the form of absorption, it will become fascinating and no effort at all. In short, it will become fun instead of work.

I strongly recommend the book "The Inner Game of Tennis" by Tim Galway. The book is not much at all about tennis; it is about how to concentrate. It's a great read with tons that applies wonderfully to pool.
 
Mike_Mason said:
Captain

I think you hit the nail on the head in your first sentence - 'it looks like I don't care if I win or not.'

Maybe you don't...but I think you might be like a lot of us who care about winning...but maybe just not enough to make it an occupation.

Cueandcushion pointed out the compulsion/obsession that drives some people to be the best they can be...whether pool or other endeavors.

Others here have responded sensibly by pointing out that you've probably made the choice to favor enjoyment of the game over perfect self-control, mastery, and world championships...

Just because the results of a pool game are not life or death doesn't mean that we don't care about winning...we just care about winning other things besides pool games...

Seems to me you've made a sensible choice...still we can wonder what might have been if we pushed and applied ourselves...
Click to expand...

I've repeated this thought many times, but now I'm reconsidering it to see if it is really a valid, valuable thought or just a cop-out on effort.

When I've proclaimed repeatedly in person and in writing that I play for other reasons besides winning, I'm being honest with myself...I thought, anyway. But, am I really being honest with my process of growing as a pool player? I'm not sure at this moment.

What if all this talk, about pool filling other needs besides winning, is just a convenient excuse for losers? A "good" reason to not do one's best? Maybe I'm too lazy to really get good and, to save face, I make up a reason that sounds good (and is good?) that still allows me to stay lazy and noncompetitive (compared to the better winners, that is).

Or is it more rational and happiness-generating to put winning on the back burner and focus on other reasons for playing? But then why compete at all if winning isn't the main reason? Playing alone, maybe, but when competing?...shouldn't winning be the top reason for competing? Is that what CaptJR and the rest of us "losers" are (not) doing?

One more: If I'm playing for other reasons besides winning, would I win more if I turned my motivation toward winning and away from playing correctly, in harmony with myself, blah, blah, blah. And would this attitude make me happier in the long run, especially if I won more?

Thinking outloud here....any comments?

Jeff Livingston
 
I don't play hard all the time either, if I am just out to have fun then I have fun and don't worry about it. If I am in a tourney then the game has my full attention. I play lights out against players who I respect and let up a little on those I don't, this translates into losing to people I should never lose to. It seems I need a challenge to play my best pool. Human nature is a weird animal.

Did Sigman Freud ever write anything on pool players? or poker players for that matter?

BK
 
chefjeff said:
I've repeated this thought many times, but now I'm reconsidering it to see if it is really a valid, valuable thought or just a cop-out on effort.

When I've proclaimed repeatedly in person and in writing that I play for other reasons besides winning, I'm being honest with myself...I thought, anyway. But, am I really being honest with my process of growing as a pool player? I'm not sure at this moment.

What if all this talk, about pool filling other needs besides winning, is just a convenient excuse for losers? A "good" reason to not do one's best? Maybe I'm too lazy to really get good and, to save face, I make up a reason that sounds good (and is good?) that still allows me to stay lazy and noncompetitive (compared to the better winners, that is).

Or is it more rational and happiness-generating to put winning on the back burner and focus on other reasons for playing? But then why compete at all if winning isn't the main reason? Playing alone, maybe, but when competing?...shouldn't winning be the top reason for competing? Is that what CaptJR and the rest of us "losers" are (not) doing?

One more: If I'm playing for other reasons besides winning, would I win more if I turned my motivation toward winning and away from playing correctly, in harmony with myself, blah, blah, blah. And would this attitude make me happier in the long run, especially if I won more?

Thinking outloud here....any comments?

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

Jeff, you have deffinitely hit the nail on the head as far as where does our motivation for the game come from. Just when we think one school of thought is the truth something else comes to the forefront to contradict that truth.

The bottom line is, motivation is as varied as each individual playing the game.

Some can not be motivated unless money is involved. Some can concentrate flawlessly in practice only to lose that concentration in games that have real importance to them.

I believe in taking notes.

I write down what I believed at the time (right or wrong) to be motivating factors for good and poor play. I can not put 100% reliability in these factors because sometimes my losses can be attributtied to poor fundamentals, excellent play from my opponent, or simply the rolls leave me nothing but kicks.

Yet as I accumulate these motivating factors I find some truths emerging. The problem is those truths have to match the circumstances almost every time.

Experience is our best teacher. Writing it down gives us a quick reference and reenforces what what we learned, instead of a foggy memory of what it was like at the time.
 
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