what is the best way to prepare a elk master tip?

lncanada9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have heard of the milkdud tip. I have also heard of soaking an elkmaster tip in pickle juice. I like a real soft hit in a cue and need to find the best way to get it. Any info?
 

Varney Cues

Handcrafted quality!
Silver Member
For the "softest" hit...don't soak it in anything. That firms the tip up a bit so it mushrooms less. The soft Tiger actually "hits" softer than an Elkmaster...both will need a few reshapes & trims by your cueman. I like a soft hit as well. I used to play with the Moori S...but switched to the Sniper. The Sniper hits a bit softer than the Moori S....very close to an Elkmaster....with no mushroom issues. The Tiger S hits even softer still...but like I said, it may need to be put on the lathe a few times to get it where you want it.;)
 

cuetique

IPT? Smells like roadkill
Silver Member
I have one customer who insists I seal the edge of the Elk Master with super glue after the final cut, sand flush with the ferrule, re-seal with super glue, then burnish to a shine. I don't hear him complaining about mushrooming, but he is the only one I do this for, FWIW.
 

Varney Cues

Handcrafted quality!
Silver Member
cuetique said:
I don't hear him complaining about mushrooming
No need it doing all that. If you just install the ElkM like a Sniper...with water & razor...then burnish with a friction polish....it won't mushroom very much if any at all.;) But then it also will not have a soft as possible hit.
 

Varney Cues

Handcrafted quality!
Silver Member
I just installed a new SOFT Tiger on my spare shaft. Being very careful not to stress any layers & using the Sniper install method. It DEFINATELY HITS SOFTER than an Elkmaster. I hit balls for almost an hour...no sign of mushrooming yet. This has to be the softest hitting tip available.;)
 

billiardbum

Listen U Might Learn!!!
Silver Member
Varney Cues said:
I just installed a new SOFT Tiger on my spare shaft. Being very careful not to stress any layers & using the Sniper install method. It DEFINATELY HITS SOFTER than an Elkmaster. I hit balls for almost an hour...no sign of mushrooming yet. This has to be the softest hitting tip available.;)
Varney - You working for Tiger :) I like their tips also, but never tried the soft, might give it a go...What is the Tiger install method?
 

Varney Cues

Handcrafted quality!
Silver Member
billiardbum said:
Varney - You working for Tiger :) I like their tips also, but never tried the soft, might give it a go...What is the Tiger install method?
Damn well think Tony ought to send me a few free boxes!!!:D
Yes...I admit...I too had never given any attention to the soft Tiger.
Love the rest of the tip line as everyone knows.
Earlier in my career I had tried to install a few soft Tigers and when cutting them down I used my lathe tool. This simply stresses the layers and the tip becomes ruined. I tried several and all mushroomed and hit poorly...so I dismissed the tip. Same issue I had when I first tried Snipers. Then Tony taught me the correct procedure using water & a razor. (Call Tiger, they'll walk you through it.) This makes the cleanest cut with zero leather stress. So suddenly now...I go back to the soft...and install with the Sniper method...WOW!!!
I may like this tip better than the Sniper. I now have several hours on two different soft Tigers...and they look the same as when I put them on. I don't know if they will keep shape as well as the Sniper in the long run...but right now...yes. And I love the "hit".:D
As Larry mentioned originally in this post...he likes a soft hitting cue...well the Tiger soft is definately the softest tip available. When installed correctly it may very well be the ideal tip for those wanting a soft hit. Time will tell as I get more hours on the tips. I pretty much use Tony's method on all tips now.;) It also makes an ElkMaster a totally different tip (much firmer) than when cut down with a carbide tool.
On a side note...I just was talking with Corey about the Soft Tiger...and he said he didn't know anyone who used them for pool...they were more of a billiard tip.
I will say I'm hitting the balls better this morning with my soft Tiger...than I was yesterday.:D :D :D
 

SCCues

< Searing Twins
Silver Member
Varney Cues said:
Damn well think Tony ought to send me a few free boxes!!!:D
Yes...I admit...I too had never given any attention to the soft Tiger.
Love the rest of the tip line as everyone knows.
Earlier in my career I had tried to install a few soft Tigers and when cutting them down I used my lathe tool. This simply stresses the layers and the tip becomes ruined. I tried several and all mushroomed and hit poorly...so I dismissed the tip. Same issue I had when I first tried Snipers. Then Tony taught me the correct procedure using water & a razor. (Call Tiger, they'll walk you through it.) This makes the cleanest cut with zero leather stress. So suddenly now...I go back to the soft...and install with the Sniper method...WOW!!!
I may like this tip better than the Sniper. I now have several hours on two different soft Tigers...and they look the same as when I put them on. I don't know if they will keep shape as well as the Sniper in the long run...but right now...yes. And I love the "hit".:D
As Larry mentioned originally in this post...he likes a soft hitting cue...well the Tiger soft is definately the softest tip available. When installed correctly it may very well be the ideal tip for those wanting a soft hit. Time will tell as I get more hours on the tips. I pretty much use Tony's method on all tips now.;) It also makes an ElkMaster a totally different tip (much firmer) than when cut down with a carbide tool.
On a side note...I just was talking with Corey about the Soft Tiger...and he said he didn't know anyone who used them for pool...they were more of a billiard tip.
I will say I'm hitting the balls better this morning with my soft Tiger...than I was yesterday.:D :D :D
I'd like to know the Tiger sniper tip installation method also. I wonder if Tony or someone like yourself would take the time to explain it on AZ instead of a bunch of us calling and taking up their time asking them to explain it on the phone. I install tips for myself and my friends and I always like to learn something new like this installation method when I get a chance.

Thanks, SC
 

Varney Cues

Handcrafted quality!
Silver Member
Its been explained on here several times...if you use the search function & search Sniper it surely will come up.
Basically its nothing but wetting the sides of the tip,couple drops of water on finger is enough...and then using a big utility razor to cut the tip flush...cut backward from ferrule to tip. It may take a few tries to get the proper blade angle. Some cuemakers trim their tips this way anyway...before Tiger. I had always used the carbide tool.
I learned.;)
 

cuetique

IPT? Smells like roadkill
Silver Member
If you have an Aloris-type toolpost, you can mount a steel ruler in it and use it as a razor guide. You can dial it in to the exact position and have something to bear against, if your hands are shaky. I do a lot of tips this way. Just keep your knuckles away from the chuck!
 

CrownCityCorey

Sock it to 'em!
Silver Member
Tip Installs

There is useful info here http://www.tigerproducts.com/faq.htm on the tip install.

Basically, the use of water acts as a lubricant when cutting. Otherwise the blade will get stuck, you push it and the tip rips.

The use of water and a sharp blade will leave you worry free. If you are using razor blades use a new one, or if you have one of our leather cutting blades, just make sure to sharpen it after every few tips.

For the larger production outfits, we just finished a prototype router set up that we will unveil at the Valley Forge Super Billiards Expo that trims & shapes the tip all at once and take under 30 seconds to do one, then set up another :D .
 

Matthys

CMC Cues Kansas City, MO
The milkdudes are made by Jensen cues I believe. I'm not sure of the process but it's an Elk master dipped maybe in Butter milk? Not sure, I shouldn't even say anything. I think he'll sell them if you want them by themselves. As for the blade technique this is how I have alwasy put on tips. I use the heavy utility blades. you have to remember a couple things, 1 when you are doing soft tips always use a new blade, very sharp. 2 when you are hold the blade against the ferrule make sure to hold the blade edge straight up and down, don't tilt it to expose more edge. Also dont' try to cut the whole tip off at once, make sveral passes. This cuts the leather ultra clean and no stress on the tip. NEVER use your toolpost cutter. I would practice this on House cues before you do it. What can happen if you don't do it correctly is it will start to thread backwards down the ferrule towards the shaft. I've never had a mishap doing this method as far as cutting my fingers wolding the blade. I guess you ccould use a utility knife if you are afraid of the blade but I feel that holding the blade makes for doing better cuts. Most people that watch me do it cringe cause it looks dangerous. But it's really no problem at all. I only threaded a couple ferrules when I first learned to do it. I haven't messed up a ferrule in a long time now. I also prefer the Titanium tipped blades to others. They seem to stay sharp longer.
 
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SCCues

< Searing Twins
Silver Member
CrownCityCorey said:
There is useful info here http://www.tigerproducts.com/faq.htm on the tip install.

Basically, the use of water acts as a lubricant when cutting. Otherwise the blade will get stuck, you push it and the tip rips.

The use of water and a sharp blade will leave you worry free. If you are using razor blades use a new one, or if you have one of our leather cutting blades, just make sure to sharpen it after every few tips.

For the larger production outfits, we just finished a prototype router set up that we will unveil at the Valley Forge Super Billiards Expo that trims & shapes the tip all at once and take under 30 seconds to do one, then set up another :D .
Thanks for the information on trimming a sniper tip. It sounds simple enough, but i'll be careful on the first couple I install/trim until I get the feel of it. I've been using my carbide cutting tool to trim tips, but I have used a razor blade to trim a few tips in the past.
 

CrownCityCorey

Sock it to 'em!
Silver Member
TellsItLikeItIs said:
That's fine for the large manufacturer Corey, and I wish you the best.
Personally though, and speaking as a small business owner that chooses
not to jump through certain hoops to use a certain product, I will be
recommending something other than the Sniper.

I just have a difficult time understanding why the Sniper is manufactured
in such a way that it requires delicate treatment like this. Moori had this
same problem for a while, they corrected their deficiencies. What action has
Tiger taken to alleviate this?

Sharp blades and h20 seem simple enough to me.

There is no deficiency exept for one's unwillingness to upgrade their technique to meet the needs of today's customers with newer technology. Every trade requires continuing education to meet the needs of their customers.

We don't make the leather (the Boars, Cows and Pigs do). We just master how to use it.

Certain types of leather are tougher to cut than others that's all.

As far as action, education is the strongest action we can take.
 
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iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think that for ANY tip, trimming the sides of the tip with a razor blade is by far the best and cleanest method. You are shearing the leather off at a very low angle, instead of at angles made to cut metal as you would if you were using standard cutting tools. Just think of a wood hand-plane. You get cleaner cuts when you use a low angle block plane, as opposed to a jack plane, because of the lower cutting angle of the blade. The same principle is in affect here when you hold the razor blade at a shallow angle to cut the tip.

Also, a fresh razor blade is simply much sharper than you could ever get a standard tool bit.

I don't know why people are calling this the "Sniper installation method". This technique has been around for years, and it really is a great method to install any tip. In my opinion, it is necessary to use it for elk masters, blue diamonds, and snipers, but it even makes the non-problamatic tips install better. I used to absolutely despise putting on elk masters, but now they are ok. They are still the toughest for me to cut, but they are now bearable with this method. I started using it about 3 years ago on all tips and I have never went back to using the tool bit method of trimming the sides, which I used to use before.
 

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
TellsItLikeItIs said:
Condescending, but oh well.

So rather than correct what may or could be a problem with the
adhesives or leather, or the manufacturing process, or at the very least
investigate those possibilities, you feel the best approach is to change
or "upgrade" techniques?

Sorry, but I just don't agree. Expecting repair persons/cuemakers to abandon
their proven techniques just to accomodate the sniper, I believe, is a bit
much. But then, I'm not a "larger production outfit" either.

Really? I don't see it that way at all. The Sniper tips are what they are, and if the process was changed, so would the way they play. If you use a blade, they are very easy to trim and actually cut very nicely. If you can't be bothered to learn to cut soft tips with a blade, you will be limited to installing hard tips. Like others have said, the blade method is far superior to using your tool post, soft tip or not. If anyone needs to learn how, I made a video that shows the technique, it's been posted in this forum many times.
 
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SnakePool

Number 1 Photo Guy
Silver Member
I use a 4 fluted Carbide end mill spinning at 30,000rpms to trim all tips then I use a razor blade to flush cut it to the ferrule.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I use the titanium coated blade Sheldon's way and have no problems.
Works on Elk Master and Blue Diamond too.
 

billiardbum

Listen U Might Learn!!!
Silver Member
Sheldon said:
Really? I don't see it that way at all. The Sniper tips are what they are, and if the process was changed, so would the way they play. If you use a blade, they are very easy to trim and actually cut very nicely. If you can't be bothered to learn to cut soft tips with a blade, you will be limited to installing hard tips. Like others have said, the blade method is far superior to using your tool post, soft tip or not. If anyone needs to learn how, I made a video that shows the technique, it's been posted in this forum many times.
http://lebowcustomcue.home.comcast.net/VIDEO.zip
 
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