What would you do here (14.1)

[mjantti]

This situation I faced just yesterday at the Finnish National 14.1 Championships against a good player. My opponent tried to play safe in the previous shot by freezing the cueball to the 10-ball, but bumped the 12-ball near the pocket. Well, it just happened that he accidentally moved another ball towards the 13-ball and it caromed from a very shallow angle to the middle bag and what seemed like a good opportunity for me became instantly a nightmare when the 9-ball was spotted just next to cueball thus leaving me absolutely nothing ! And yes, I can tell you that this safety opportunity wasn't on his mind when he made the shot...

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No, 10-ball couldn't be caromed to the middle and 7-ball wasn't lined up anywhere. I could see a fraction of the 15-ball but nothing to be done with it. 14-ball wasn't on.

It seemed there was nothing to do except leaving some distance between the cueball and the object ball and I took a deliberate foul and moved the cueball to position A like this:

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My opponent being a good player wasn't disturbed with the distance and calmly made the long 12-ball and continued his run with a couple of dozen balls. I wasn't very happy with this roll

Any other ideas ?

 

[bruin70]

seems almost hopeless, as there is a ball close to three of the four corner pockets. i don't like your safe because a decent player can easily bank the 5 if he didn't like the 14, 15, or 12.

the only area that makes sense to me is to lay the cb off 3 rails behind the 12,,,,and i think your only hope would be to freeze the cb behind the 12 with no shot on the 9,10,7, or bank on the 14......but would the 14 block the cb from going the 3 rails? not freezing the cb to the 12 leaves the 12 to the bottom right pocket.

other than that,,,,,,railing the cb as you did but behind the 5.

 

[mjantti]

seems almost hopeless, as there is a ball close to three of the four corner pockets. i don't like your safe because a decent player can easily bank the 5 if he didn't like the 14, 15, or 12.

the only area that makes sense to me is to lay the cb off 3 rails behind the 12,,,,and i think your only hope would be to freeze the cb behind the 12 with no shot on the 9,10,7, or bank on the 14......but would the 14 block the cb from going the 3 rails? not freezing the cb to the 12 leaves the 12 to the bottom right pocket.

other than that,,,,,,railing the cb as you did but behind the 5.

The more I look at my diagram, the more I like your proposed 3-railer behind the 12-ball. Depending on the angle on the 9-ball, I could've played it off the 9-ball without the foul. Now I think I made a bad shot from a difficult position.

Actually, in my original shot, I tried to leave both 12 and 14-ball dead straight and forcing him to bank the 5 or to shoot the 15. I didn't manage to do that and sold out...

 

[bruin70]

i would never call your shot a sellout. it's a tough lie.

 

[sjm]

A most unpleasant situation, Mikko, but there is a shot that would give you a relaistic chance to start a safety battle, and that would be taking a scratch by ducking the cue ball slowly two rails under the five. If you execute it, you're probably on even footing in the safety battle, and if you don't you may leave no more than the missable fourteen in the corner.

 

[Shorty]

This situation I faced just yesterday at the Finnish National 14.1 Championships against a good player. My opponent tried to play safe in the previous shot by freezing the cueball to the 10-ball, but bumped the 12-ball near the pocket. Well, it just happened that he accidentally moved another ball towards the 13-ball and it caromed from a very shallow angle to the middle bag and what seemed like a good opportunity for me became instantly a nightmare when the 9-ball was spotted just next to cueball thus leaving me absolutely nothing ! And yes, I can tell you that this safety opportunity wasn't on his mind when he made the shot...

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No, 10-ball couldn't be caromed to the middle and 7-ball wasn't lined up anywhere. I could see a fraction of the 15-ball but nothing to be done with it. 14-ball wasn't on.

It seemed there was nothing to do except leaving some distance between the cueball and the object ball and I took a deliberate foul and moved the cueball to position A like this:

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My opponent being a good player wasn't disturbed with the distance and calmly made the long 12-ball and continued his run with a couple of dozen balls. I wasn't very happy with this roll

Any other ideas ?

I know you say the 7 ball was not lined up anywhere...but was it close to being toward the side pocket? Reason I ask is that you could of easily one railed the cue into the 10-7 combo, and depending on which way you needed to throw the 7, could of possibly made it in the side. I am no 14.1 player, but I used to be when I was younger...and I have been known to be a dangerous shooter at times, but I figure ya gotta learn somehow. Here is what my WEI looks like:

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Notice how the 10 then can go in, or even glance off the 12. Just something to ponder.

I agree that getting it behind the 12 was probably your best bet, but was there no way to carom off the 9 and the left side of the 15 and bury it back behind the 12? I know its a touch shot, but this seems like another option.

You played it right as far as a safe semi-safe shot. You left him somewhat hard...but nonetheless I understand your difficult choices.

Just some suggestions...take it as you wish.

Shorty

 

[bruin70]

I know you say the 7 ball was not lined up anywhere...but was it close to being toward the side pocket? Reason I ask is that you could of easily one railed the cue into the 10-7 combo, and depending on which way you needed to throw the 7, could of possibly made it in the side. I am no 14.1 player, but I used to be when I was younger...and I have been known to be a dangerous shooter at times, but I figure ya gotta learn somehow. Here is what my WEI looks like:

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Notice how the 10 then can go in, or even glance off the 12. Just something to ponder.

I agree that getting it behind the 12 was probably your best bet, but was there no way to carom off the 9 and the left side of the 15 and bury it back behind the 12? I know its a touch shot, but this seems like another option.

You played it right as far as a safe semi-safe shot. You left him somewhat hard...but nonetheless I understand your difficult choices.

Just some suggestions...take it as you wish.

Shorty

7 was not dead, and he could only see a bit of the 15,,,which would mean the right edge of the 15. so,,,no way to carom off the 15 and behind the 12. that WOULD have been the best play as it would have also sent the 15 out a bit and possibly blocked the 12.

 

[Rod]

I'd shoot thru the 9 trying to play two rails behind the 12.
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Any shot is tough from there so it just depends what you think you can execute best. I think hiding behind the 12 is your best option. The other three rail behind the 12 as mentioned may end up in a kiss.

Rod

 

[Koop]

Thanks for posting Mikko and great play sjm. I love these threads...
Everyone has great ideas and it's nice to be able to look at so many options.

Regards,
Dave - (needs to play more 14.1)

 

[Williebetmore]

I would slowly roll the cue ball into the left side of the 15 (slow, half-masse' if necessary to hit the left side of the 15), trying to leave the cue behind the 12 (with no shot on the 12 in the bottom left corner, and no shot on the balls in the rack area). I just set it up and was able to make a fairly good safe position 4 out of 5 tries with a slight half-masse' (of course it depends on the real position of the cue ball and the ball its frozen to; small differences in position affect the ease of this safety). I consider this a fairly common one pocket type of safety (though may not have been possible depending on the true position of the balls). Danny D. insists on complete mastery of the "slow roller" for pocketing and for safeties, the more I practice the slow rollers, the luckier I am getting with them.

 

[sixpack]

A most unpleasant situation, Mikko, but there is a shot that would give you a relaistic chance to start a safety battle, and that would be taking a scratch by ducking the cue ball slowly two rails under the five. If you execute it, you're probably on even footing in the safety battle, and if you don't you may leave no more than the missable fourteen in the corner.

That was the shot I saw. I tried it while I was practicing earlier and it's a pretty high percentage play.

Cheers,
Regas

 

[sjm]

I would slowly roll the cue ball into the left side of the 15 (slow, half-masse' if necessary to hit the left side of the 15), trying to leave the cue behind the 12 (with no shot on the 12 in the bottom left corner, and no shot on the balls in the rack area). I just set it up and was able to make a fairly good safe position 4 out of 5 tries with a slight half-masse' (of course it depends on the real position of the cue ball and the ball its frozen to; small differences in position affect the ease of this safety). I consider this a fairly common one pocket type of safety (though may not have been possible depending on the true position of the balls). Danny D. insists on complete mastery of the "slow roller" for pocketing and for safeties, the more I practice the slow rollers, the luckier I am getting with them.

Willie, I can't even imagine that shot, and I'm very strong with my masses.

According to the original post, you can only see the right edge of the fifteen, so the masse is about an inch and a half. If you dont' get the fifteen left of center, it goes to the rail and double kisses the cue ball. If you do, then the cue ball goes to the rail with left english. You may even scratch in the corner. But if you don't, how on earth could you possibly avoid giving up the nine in the side if you've used enough curve and speed to put the fifteen where it blocks the twelve in the corner? Seems impossible.

Nonetheless, it seems that we're on the same page after all, because we both feel that a soft touch shot is what this position calls for. I just feel I can lock the cue ball under the five about two thirds of the time.

Danny D is dead on --- the slow rollers are critical in straight pool tactical play.

 

[Jimmy M.]

I'd probably tap the top of the cue ball with my cue. If my opponent did the same thing back, there's a chance that they might knock the 9 away just far enough to make the 12 (of course, there's the chance that I would too, but more of a chance for them since I might jar it loose a little on my "tap"). If they shot the same shot on me, and left me in the same spot, then I'd probably foul intentionally to try to escape in one of the ways that others have posted. There's always the possibility that they wouldn't shoot the same shot back on me, in which case, I probably escaped already.

 

[sjm]

I'd probably tap the top of the cue ball with my cue. If my opponent did the same thing back, there's a chance that they might knock the 9 away just far enough to make the 12 (of course, there's the chance that I would too, but more of a chance for them since I might jar it loose a little on my "tap"). If they shot the same shot on me, and left me in the same spot, then I'd probably foul intentionally to try to escape in one of the ways that others have posted. There's always the possibility that they wouldn't shoot the same shot back on me, in which case, I probably escaped already.

I toyed with that idea, Jimmy. Pretty good idea against a weaker player, but against a stronger player, I reckoned they'd never fall into the trap and if I unfroze the cue and the nine, I'd probably give up a very easy bank on the fourteen. As you say, though, the tactic could possibly work.

 

[bruin70]

my last thought,,,,,,

if the 9 is frozen to the cb, then you CAN hit the left side of the 15 and nestle it behind the 12. it is a "jewett system shot" to calculate the direction of the cb when it is frozen to an interfering ball.

the resulting calculation as to where to aim the cb in order to hit the 15 properly would be to aim in the direction of the 12ball, slightly to it's right. hopefully, the result would be ticking the 15 over to the rail,,,,the 9 getting knocked over, blocking the 12 to the corner pocket,,,,and the cb coming off the 15 then rail and resting enough behind the 12 to be blocked from the 7. the only problem i had with my 2 or 3 cushion behind the 12 was the possible interfering 14.

bob would know the right calculation.....but sjm's is the simplest by far.

 

[TATE]

I'd shoot thru the 9 trying to play two rails behind the 12.
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Any shot is tough from there so it just depends what you think you can execute best. I think hiding behind the 12 is your best option. The other three rail behind the 12 as mentioned may end up in a kiss.

Rod

That's a great move and exactly what I would do, probably with a little inside to kill the cueball and send the 9 further up table.

Chris

 

[mjantti]

I like the idea of rolling the cueball behind the 5-ball, but now remembering the situation, the 5-ball was a little bit closer to the long rail and getting the cueball behind it on an unknown table isn't simple. On my practice table it would've been.

And yes, I was playing against a top notch shooter and not a weak player. I figured out if I had tapped the cueball, I would have left the 14-ball on...

 

[sjm]

Nice thread, Mikko. As we've seen, several ways to skin this cat. As per you example, the tactical portion of straight pool is really quite diffcult. In nine ball, we need only play defense relative to the position of a single ball. In one pocket, only with respect to one pocket. Even in eight ball, only with respect to some of the balls. In straight pool, we must account for every ball and every pocket, a tall order indeed.

 

[mjantti]

That's a great move and exactly what I would do, probably with a little inside to kill the cueball and send the 9 further up table.

Chris

Rodd's suggestion which Tate preferred about shooting through the 9-ball, would have resulted to a foul, because according to world standardized rules, no balls are spotted frozen to the cueball, there must always be a narrow gap between the cueball and the spotted ball. So the cueball wasn't frozen to the 9-ball.

Excerpt from rule 3.32:
"Spotted balls are to be placed as close as possible or frozen (at the referee's discretion) to such interfering balls, except when the cue ball is interfering; balls to be spotted against the cue ball are placed as close as possible without being frozen. "

Or did you Rodd suggest that you have pushed through the ball anyway thus making a deliberate foul by a double hit? I think my opponent wouldn't have liked that because it can be considered as unsportmanship conduct...

 

[Williebetmore]

According to the original post, you can only see the right edge of the fifteen, so the masse is about an inch and a half. .

SJM,
OOPS!! I set it up with the cue ball full on into the 15 (requiring only slight masse to hit the left part of the 15) - my mistake. I like your kick below the 5, but I think I would take an intentional foul first, just to give my opponent a chance to do something foolish (I would not want to make your kick with 2 fouls on me unless I knew the table very well).