Where does SVB rank all time?

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
I think this is a well thought out group.
My favorite all around player is Sigel but SVB is way up there in my opinion.
SVB is close to the very top, especially when discussing American only players.
I have seen Shane torture very good players giving them the 4 & out and they didn't win a game no less a set.
When Shane was hanging around Denver and Danny Medina was still playing Danny may have won one set against Shane.
It has been 14 years since Shane won his first US Open, and he is still going strong and looks to be in great shape.
I like Shane, but still Sigel for all around great player based on I don't remember him losing very many matches, and his 150 & out run against Rempe seen on YouTube was masterful.
It's kind of funny, but my good friend Dan Wallace said that when the IPT was going, he watched Mike play on a gold crown with simonis and he was playing as good as he ever did.

Although that was just practicing and I know that there are some players that were top pros at one time that can still play like they did, but not when under the gun. I'm not gonna mention any names but I know a few personally.

Jaden
 

ShootingHank

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Past players were better based on past earnings.

Didn't the likes of Strickland and Varner played for millions?

This isn't some 50k payout. Past players were getting paid out hundreds of thousands. When that much money is at stake the pressure intensifies.

Didn't Strickland win a million for running out consecutive racks?
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
It's kind of funny, but my good friend Dan Wallace said that when the IPT was going, he watched Mike play on a gold crown with simonis and he was playing as good as he ever did.

Although that was just practicing and I know that there are some players that were top pros at one time that can still play like they did, but not when under the gun. I'm not gonna mention any names but I know a few personally.

Jaden
I watched Sigel practicing at the IPT Orlando. He was breaking the balls extremely well, made a ball on the break every time, and he ran at least a 5-pack while I was watching. I heard him say he had run an 8-pack. Unfortunately, the nerves really showed in his match against Efren. Definitely wasn't tournament tough.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Past players were better based on past earnings.

Didn't the likes of Strickland and Varner played for millions?

This isn't some 50k payout. Past players were getting paid out hundreds of thousands. When that much money is at stake the pressure intensifies.

Didn't Strickland win a million for running out consecutive racks?
WTF????? Money was never that high back then. Where do hear this shit?? Yes, Earl won a million that was later downgraded to half that. That was a rare, one-off deal.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
WTF????? Money was never that high back then. Where do hear this shit?? Yes, Earl won a million that was later downgraded to half that. That was a rare, one-off deal.
He's trolling just ignore him. Even if he's not trolling, he would have to be dumber than a box of rocks, so don't bother. It's like trying to explain relativity to a duck...

Jaden
 

inside_english

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think he's mid tier or bottom for an American great. He is considered one of the greatest of all time due to domination but he has lost some matches he shouldn't be losing. Some say he's a choker and some say he gets coached through his listening device.

Where do you have him ranked?

For me in no partcular order:

Mosconi
Greenleaf
Strickland
Efren
Ronnie O'Sullivan
I have not posted in a while and don't visit this site much due to the growing popularity of pool on FB, but I have to say that this must be a trolling attempt to start a conversation. I doubt you are old enough to have seen Mosconi or Greenleaf, and placing Ronnie O'Sullivan in that crowd is mixing apples and oranges. I think your post is a little disrespectful toward Shane, TBH. The fact that you do NOT have SVB listed means that you're probably one of the people who thinks he is a choker or gets coached through his hearing aid (I am sure the QAnon losers came up with that one). So, I won't say I agree or disagree, just that I think you are just trying to stir things up for no particular reason.
 
I think he's mid tier or bottom for an American great. He is considered one of the greatest of all time due to domination but he has lost some matches he shouldn't be losing. Some say he's a choker and some say he gets coached through his listening device.

Where do you have him ranked?

For me in no partcular order:

Mosconi
Greenleaf
Strickland
Efren
Ronnie O'Sullivan
I think he’s top 10-12.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
I watched Sigel practicing at the IPT Orlando. He was breaking the balls extremely well, made a ball on the break every time, and he ran at least a 5-pack while I was watching. I heard him say he had run an 8-pack. Unfortunately, the nerves really showed in his match against Efren. Definitely wasn't tournament tough.
Same thing had happened in warm-up for the 2000 BCA US Open 14.1 event. Mike ran a cool 280 on the practice table, but once the matches began, he couldn't run the balls anymore.
 

fjk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't believe Shane would be an underdog against anyone in 9 ball or 10 ball...from any era. When he gets going, he turns into a freaking machine. I've never seen anyone breeze through racks / packs the effortless way Shane can. JMHO.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shane is not even in the discussion with Efren. Reyes was the best ever one pocket player, the best ever eight ball player, one of the best ever at nine ball, highly capable at both straight pool and bank pool, and he always seemed to win when the prize money was highest, such as the IPT $500,000 first prize and two scores of over $150,000 in winning the Japan Open. His win over Earl Strickland, who was at his very peak, in a race to 120, further validates his pedigree. We may never see another one in Efren's class.

It's no secret that I'm no fan of Earl, but I can't deny his pedigree or his resume. Like Shane, Earl also won 5 US Open 9-ball events, but unlike Shane he won 3 WPA World 9-ball Championships, and he won 10 Mosconi Cups. He won countless PBT and Camel Tour events, all of which featured large, super-tough internationally diverse fields. Obviously, I have no idea whether you saw Earl at his best, but he was famous for dismissing champions (Sigel, Varner, Hall, Bustamante) by scores like 11-1 and 11-2 on a regular basis in competition. He was the most dominant nine ball player we've ever seen. Shane doesn't measure up to Earl.

As for Sigel, I think that in the modern era, he is America's greatest player. Sigel and Mizerak were 1A and 1B as far as the latter part of the straight pool era, and Sigel and Strickland were 1A and 1B in the early part of the nine ball era. To have been so thoroughly dominant in both the straight pool era and the nine ball era is a feat that only Mike can claim (with due respect to Rempe and Varner, who also continued to excel after the straight pool era drew to a close). Had he not retired young in about 1994, I think Mike Sigel might have compared favorably with Efren as the greatest ever player, but I can't put Mike over Efren. Finally, Sigel didn't beat fields that were easier than what SVB has faced, as in Sigel's early campaign, winning a top event meant beating fields that included Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner, Dallas West, Allen Hopkins, Irving Crane, Lou Butera, Jim Rempe, Danny DiLiberto, Ray Martin, Luther Lassiter, Jimmy Moore and Joe Balsis. Yup, all twelve of them are in the BCA Hall of Fame today. Beyond that, such fields included the likes of Pete Margo, Larry Lisciotti, Dick Lane, Tom Jennings and other confirmed world beaters. Sigel triumphed over some of the toughest fields ever seen in pool.

Your list has the right four, but I find it impossible to put Shane over any of the other three.
Well said Stu
 

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
As for Sigel, I think that in the modern era, he is America's greatest player. Sigel and Mizerak were 1A and 1B as far as the latter part of the straight pool era, and Sigel and Strickland were 1A and 1B in the early part of the nine ball era. To have been so thoroughly dominant in both the straight pool era and the nine ball era is a feat that only Mike can claim (with due respect to Rempe and Varner, who also continued to excel after the straight pool era drew to a close). Had he not retired young in about 1994, I think Mike Sigel might have compared favorably with Efren as the greatest ever player, but I can't put Mike over Efren. Finally, Sigel didn't beat fields that were easier than what SVB has faced, as in Sigel's early campaign, winning a top event meant beating fields that included Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner, Dallas West, Allen Hopkins, Irving Crane, Lou Butera, Jim Rempe, Danny DiLiberto, Ray Martin, Luther Lassiter, Jimmy Moore and Joe Balsis. Yup, all twelve of them are in the BCA Hall of Fame today. Beyond that, such fields included the likes of Pete Margo, Larry Lisciotti, Dick Lane, Tom Jennings and other confirmed world beaters. Sigel triumphed over some of the toughest fields ever seen in pool.
And of course let's not forget who Efren has consistently said was the toughest player he ever faced, which is Mike Sigel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sjm

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't believe Shane would be an underdog against anyone in 9 ball or 10 ball...from any era. When he gets going, he turns into a freaking machine. I've never seen anyone breeze through racks / packs the effortless way Shane can. JMHO.

Filler can make it look pretty easy when he's on.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Filler can make it look pretty easy when he's on.
With a World 9-ball Championship, a China Open title, a US Open title, and a Mosconi Cup MVP award under his belt at such a young age, I think it's better than 50/50 that Filler will pass Souquet as Europe's greatest ever pool player, but it will be a long while before it's worth comparing Josh's resume with Ralf's.
 

Dave714

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have to agree with this assessment. Jay's list was a very good one- I cannot dispute it. But of all 8 players on Jay's list, if there were a round robin marathon tournament of say three pool disciplines- 14.1, a rotation game, and perhaps one pocket - I would put my bet on Varner to come out on top. Why you say?

I also agree with someone else here who said if you put 50 of the greatest in a room- each at the top of their game- no telling who would come out the winner that day. So, to me, consistency rules the day when players of great skill meet in competition.

Nick Varner , IMO, possessed the greatest ability to maintain the ability to come with 100% of his skills on every single shot. The man had an unwavering emotional make- up that allowed him to stay on path shot after shot, game after game, no matter what the score or opponent.

My bet goes to the guy who holds up best under the pressure of a brutal competitive situation - and this would be that test - I think that Nick was wired best to deal with adversity that would no doubt surface for all 8 players during such a competition.
Those years when Nick was chomping on that gum was there some kind of chemical help going on?
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
yers
It's just too tough to compare the straight pool era to the nine ball era in pool.

In the straight pool era, the top five are surely Mosconi, Greenleaf, Crane, Sigel and Mizerak, but nearly all the straight poolers of that era were American. Of course, Luther Lassiter and Harold Worst may have been better than all of them if all-around play is the measure.

The nine ball era is much harder to gauge, but however you look at it, Shane's name is in the mix for greatest ever. There were two especially noteworthy crossover stars from the straight pool era in Sigel and Varner, who continued to be world beaters even when the primary pro game was changed. Each is in the conversation for greatest ever American player.

Shane's excellence at the US Open 9-ball and the Derby City Classic evidence just how great he has been on home soil. He has not fared nearly as well overseas, and in the large field, WPA sanctioned events offering the most elite fields in our sport's history (World 9-ball, China Open 9-ball, US Open 9-ball, All Japan 9-ball), he has never won an overseas title. That said, however, he has won silver at the World championships, bronze at the China Open. and bronze at the All-Japan, so he has, at times, excelled overseas even though the biggest titles have eluded him.

His name deserves to be alongside all-time legends like Sigel, Varner, and Strickland, Reyes and Pagulayan, but where he fits in the hierarchy of the nine ball era is not so easy to gauge. I suspect that if I made this list on some other day it might look different, but my hierarchy for this era of pool is:

Efren Reyes
Mike Sigel
Earl Strickland
Shane Van Boening
Alex Pagulayan
Nick Varner
Ralf Souquet
Johnny Archer
Buddy Hall

Throw out all the qualitative stuff. Greatness is measured in titles. Always has been, always will be. Shane's resume of titles validates that he's one of the all time greats.
Jimmy Caras belongs on your top five Straight Pool players list. Okay, make it top six. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: sjm

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stu has done a brilliant assessment of the greats and their respective era’s in this thread. Mostly I agree with him, if we don’t agree it’s splitting hairs to which there is no definitive answer. (Old Fatboy stepped up his writing game?) told ya I wasn’t that dumb all these years lol j/k. No I didn’t hire a ghost writer.

One thing I didn’t see mentioned in this thread or I missed it. I’d like to add one thing about SVB, it’s not where he ranks. It’s about him. We talked in this or another thread about how hard he works. That’s not disputable. Plenty of us have seen it first hand.

What I’d like to address is what version of SVB do we have today. I met SVB in Reno June 07-I’m 95% confident at the last Sands Reno tourney which he double dipped Johnny Archer 11-9 11-6 iirc in the finals.

That version of SVB was amazing, but he had rough edges, when he played the first TAR match I bet $15,000 on him playing Cory. Could have bet more, everyone knew Cory and SVB was the “kid” in SD that played good.

I’ve been lucky enough to be with SVB at 4-5 Mosconi Cups in the practice room, he stayed with me many times in Vegas and I’d spot balls for hours helping him practice-we didn’t speak, it was work. Serious biz. I offered to help, he said “thanks”. To be a minor minor part and a fly on the wall for his ride to stardom in our little corner of the universe is pretty cool. Front row seats watching him develop into what he is today.

I told this long story to be a show off that my writing has improved and share some lucky moments of my life. SVB and I are friends, we don’t talk often but we do talk about pool of course and other things that will never be public(ok fishing duh, who don’t know that???)

My final point is this, I believe the current version of SVB is thr best version of SVB I’ve seen play over the last 14 years. He was a champion in 07. But now he has that polish that comes with experience and hard work. I think he’s hitting the CB better than ever, his break ‘we already know’, his focus and mental toughness has just got better with time.

When does he peak and level off? IDK, he takes care of himself so I expect longer than the players of the 80’s. He can still improve a bit from this point I firmly believe.

He will be part of the conversation of the all time greats. For his era he is the man…Kid 😉.

Looking forward to seeing the next 14 years happen. It’s been great so far!!

This is how we need to look at pool and respect our players who earn respect. Sure nobody is perfect, but when the fans respect the champions it creates their value. If nobody respected Michael Jordan, he’d be just another player.

just my late night musings

best
Fatboy
 

VVP

Registered
The TAR podcasts on YouTube with Efren and Shane are worth watching if you never seen them. They are versions 39 and 48. In one of them Efren said that he considers Nick Varner to be the best player after himself of course LOL. He also mentioned Mike Sigel.. He said that Shane has all the attributes to be a great player but needed to improve his "mental skills." This was years ago. Wish if someone would continue these types of podcast.
 
Top