Which pros DON'T gamble?

Tokyo-dave

Tokyo-dave

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lot's of posts recently about the better money players, and the best action from your home state ect. I'm curious about the well known pros that are not known to play for money either having quit after having some sucess on the tour, or having never been a money player in the first place.
dave
 
> It's been said that Ralf Souquet doesn't gamble. Earl quit gambling in 1988. Can you imagine playing Earl for the cash? Tommy Kennedy also quit playing for the cash. A guy that stands out in my mind as maybe the best non-pro tournament player in America is Eddie Adams from Kentucky. I've played in probably 14-15 high-level tournaments with him,and the only one I've ever seen him NOT win was the U.S. Open,and he finished 7-8th there. Players like Reed Pierce,Mike Massey,Rudolfo Luat and Jose Parica have all been shot down in flames by this guy. He flatly refuses to play for stakes of any kind other than personal pride,and also refuses to participate in calcuttas,to the point that he won't even accept a jelly roll after winning for you. His game overall is between Mike and Rudolfo. Mike Massey is another example,although he did match up at one time. I can accept someone telling me they don't gamble as long as they don't run around talking smack about who they can beat and then pulling the "I don't gamble" stunt.

I have mixed feelings about gambling. I've seen the problems it causes,and as bad as I want to play at the level of the top gamblers like Alex and Parica,I've never wanted to make a living at the game in that sense. Other than small sweat bets on pool matches,or football games,I don't gamble much. On the other hand,I've always worked for a living,and 3-4 grand can do many more productive things for me than putting myself in a 8-ahead against the ghost. If I had the kind of disposable income that allows people to play large sets,and I found a game I felt I could win,sure I'd stake myself,but not to the extent that I get stuck borrowing money to get home or selling my cues. Pure and simple,the only reasons I even play for money,are because it helps my tournament game,I enjoy the combat and the self-discovery it offers,and it's entirely too hard to get people to throw their A game out for free. Tommy D.
 
When Earl gambled?

Tommy-D said:
> It's been said that Ralf Souquet doesn't gamble. Earl quit gambling in 1988. Can you imagine playing Earl for the cash? Tommy Kennedy also quit playing for the cash. A guy that stands out in my mind as maybe the best non-pro tournament player in America is Eddie Adams from Kentucky. I've played in probably 14-15 high-level tournaments with him,and the only one I've ever seen him NOT win was the U.S. Open,and he finished 7-8th there. Players like Reed Pierce,Mike Massey,Rudolfo Luat and Jose Parica have all been shot down in flames by this guy. He flatly refuses to play for stakes of any kind other than personal pride,and also refuses to participate in calcuttas,to the point that he won't even accept a jelly roll after winning for you. His game overall is between Mike and Rudolfo. Mike Massey is another example,although he did match up at one time. I can accept someone telling me they don't gamble as long as they don't run around talking smack about who they can beat and then pulling the "I don't gamble" stunt.

I have mixed feelings about gambling. I've seen the problems it causes,and as bad as I want to play at the level of the top gamblers like Alex and Parica,I've never wanted to make a living at the game in that sense. Other than small sweat bets on pool matches,or football games,I don't gamble much. On the other hand,I've always worked for a living,and 3-4 grand can do many more productive things for me than putting myself in a 8-ahead against the ghost. If I had the kind of disposable income that allows people to play large sets,and I found a game I felt I could win,sure I'd stake myself,but not to the extent that I get stuck borrowing money to get home or selling my cues. Pure and simple,the only reasons I even play for money,are because it helps my tournament game,I enjoy the combat and the self-discovery it offers,and it's entirely too hard to get people to throw their A game out for free. Tommy D.
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On one of my Accu-Stats tapes, Bill Incardona refers to a gambling match many years ago in Vegas when Earl matched up with Morro Paez (often referred to as the "Champion of Mexico"....He said Earl gave Morro the 8 in a 9-ball set for 20 large.....and Earl won "in a breeze".....I wonder why Earl quit gambling...?
 
This is really interesting to me.

I love the game of pool, but never understood fully why gambling has to be a part of the game for large amount of people.

I am involved in a lot of similar types of actives that are fun, without having money on the line.

For me, the enjoyment of the process of the game is what is most fulfilling to me. The made shots, the missed shots, the strategy, the rolls, my opponent's good shot, etc.
 
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No Gamble

The word pool means to gamble. At one time it was illegal to name a billiard parlor a pool hall. It probably is still in some places.
 
I have never seen or heard Allison Fisher play anyone for money.

Have any of you?

Richard
 
Here is the AZB interview with Earl where he explains his reason for quitting gambling: http://www.azbilliards.com/interviews/earl3.html ...pretty interesting insight into Earl's thought processes.
When I spoke to Charlie "Hillbilly" Bryant at the 2004 DCC and again at a local tournament, he was not gambling and showed me some stuff he'd written about the subject. But then I saw him in the 2006 DCC ring 10-ball game, where each player had to put up money, so I don't know what his gambling status is at present...kinda curious.
It's awfully tough to survive financially as a full-time pro without gambling. Earl and Mike Massey have done pretty well, and Tommy Kennedy seems to be doing OK with his tour, but they have all had to work pretty hard to make a go of it (Earl, probably less so after winning the 1 million for running the 10 racks). While I certainly enjoy the gambling side of pool, I have great respect for the players mentioned in this thread who have kept the courage of their convictions and have done what is right for them.
 
nipponbilliards said:
I have never seen or heard Allison Fisher play anyone for money.

Have any of you?

Richard
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She did. Quickly found out a male road player can give her the 7 and rob her.:eek:
Supposedly Choo Choo Coltrain, before quitting for good, even gave her the 7-out and she had no prayer.
For those who never saw Choo Choo at his best, he had the most beautiful stroke you never saw.
Rodolfo Luat gave him the 7-ball at Hard Times one night and he robbed Luat.
 
Its always made me wonder about the players of today. Im not knocking any of them as they all play a top speed, but it has become popular in recent years not to gamble. The players of the 60s, 70s and 80s were action players pure and simple. They had nerves of steel and their games showed that.
Its also what makes the Filipino players so devastating. Most of these guys grew up gambling in pretty dangerous environments. It hardens a person, it makes you different when you play against that pressure.
I watched the Mosconi cup from 2005 and was so unimpressed by most of the games that didnt involve Earl and or Rodney that it was hard to watch.
I dont know, maybe I have a minority opinion when it comes to this...... but it just doent seem to me like most of the players of today could have stood their own back in 60s, 70s, or 80s against guys like Wimpy, Rempe, Sigel etc etc.
Chuck
 
RiverCity said:
...
I dont know, maybe I have a minority opinion when it comes to this...... but it just doent seem to me like most of the players of today could have stood their own back in 60s, 70s, or 80s against guys like Wimpy, Rempe, Sigel etc etc.
Chuck
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I don't think yours is a minority opinion at all. IMO the players back in the time frame you referenced were in action constantly and most had solid, big-time backers who understood what was going on, and it seemed all the top players had their A-game working at all times. I don't know that the players were actually better then, I just think they were more battle-hardened and agree that they were probably tougher to beat than todays' group. One example: to beat Buddy Hall in a big $ match back in his prime, a player had to have no nerves, stay in his A-game for hours/days, fade the subtle (or blatant) psychological warfare Buddy would fire at him, then, if he got that far, he had to finish him off (where he would end up feeling like Bill Murray vs the gopher in "Caddyshack"). Can you imagine if we had AZB back in the day, there would not be one boring day on the forum... there was big-time action constantly.
 
I read that mosconi hated gambling. In the book hustler days and I quote "Mosconi and the billiards establishments blamed gambling itself. "Mosconi said of pool. The collapse sent mosconi then a pitchman for Brunswick Billiards on a crusade in billiard parlor and bowling alley the champ railed against the professional gambler as if railing against the devil himself. "He hated gambling and always discouraged it" said Bill Mosconi , Willie's son.

"Mosconi once was asked by his son why he never taught the boy to play pool his response "I want you to get and education and associate with a better class of people. I don't want you hangin around pool halls and betting the games."

The book said mosconi only gambled during the depression to support his family. It said that he just made enough to feed his family gambling.

Bill mosconi on Willie Mosconi "I think he even convinced himself that when he was young and supported his family by playing for money he was not really gambling. "

Hope this helps some...

charlie,
 
wahcheck said:
On one of my Accu-Stats tapes, Bill Incardona refers to a gambling match many years ago in Vegas when Earl matched up with Morro Paez (often referred to as the "Champion of Mexico"....He said Earl gave Morro the 8 in a 9-ball set for 20 large.....and Earl won "in a breeze".....I wonder why Earl quit gambling...?
Click to expand...

They played 10-ahead and Earl won in just over 3 hours. Then Earl came to Hard Times and they were going to play again there. Earl started practicing but the game never started. The story that was going around the pool room was that Earl's backer never showed up. I left, came back the next day and Earl was still hitting balls. Everyone said he had been practicing all night - for something crazy like 30 hours.
 
I'm interested in what Grady would think of this thread. My how things have changed. 60s, 70s, you couldn't, wouldn't, learn much pool if you didn't gamble because you had to pay your dues. The far majority of real players today still gamble, if you don't think so, next time DCC comes around, watch were everyone gravitates too. For 9 days players matched up in the bar/back room. Cliff paid for one of those fancy tables with the number of token he put in it, and they're expensive.

BTW, most of the players didn't have big backers with them back then. Most were playing for their "nut" and to send money home (maybe). Nothing will improve your game faster than knowing if you miss that 9 ball, you may not have enough gas to get home and probably won't eat on the way. Gas was cheap then too. Builds nerve and heart. Unfortunately, leaks, as I call them, kept even some of the good players (winners) broke.

Gambling is part of our nature, some more than others. Golf, bowling, hold-em, dice, you name it. Ask any of the players how much money they left in the casinos in Oroville, Reno or Vegas.

What the earlier writer said is true about the Filipinos. The Filipino pool table looks like a busy Vegas crap table, think they don't learn well?

Whats competition without reward? Like kissing your sister. Travel to LA and beat the top players and get metal cup, or play a few cheap sessions, please. I don't think if that was the mentality of pool players there would even be tournaments today. Hell, might not be golf tournaments either. How would you match up with someone for $20.00, a better player, think you could get weight? He wouldn't even play, don't waste his time.

Now Earl would tell you to F*** Off if you even asked him to play, fun or money, so I don't think he is typical. When challenged, most of the pros will put it up and play. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

I am going to bet that most of the earlier comments are from players that have never been on the road or gambling circuit. Much smarter bunch of folks than what I used to be.

But now I have a doctorate and few bucks and am playing again.
 
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Gambling at anything has such an ugly side to it. The worst I've seen are on poker tables and pool tables. People get so nasty with each other over a $20 bet it's ridiculous. There are the rare occasions in the poolhall when I see a gracious winner, but most of the time it's a bunch of crap talking or complaining. In casinos, I've seen people in $3/6 'holdem scoop up chips from the pot and chuck them at the dealer's face after they got a bad beat. I think that when people think of gambling at pool, they imagine men in suits acting like business men, with cigars in their mouths, counting money and handing it to someone without a flinch. Too bad it's not really like that.
 
I think Filipino Marlon Manalo doesn't gamble. Apparently he grew up in a family with a stable economy, and didn't need the extra cash.
 
> Another great story about Earl gambling came from our own Ribdoner,who owned the poolroom that this one took place in. Earl came into Memphis,and got the low-down from Louie Roberts,who told him to play anyone there for whatever amount,"but whatever you do,DON'T get too far out of line with Lou Jones,he can play". Lou Jones was a real estate agent I think,so he had plenty of money,bet high and well,was a complete gentleman to gamble with,and just so happened to play about Allison's/Karen's speed,but just didn't have a strong break. By the time Louie got there,Earl was spotting him the 4,5,6,the break and the first shot! Lou ran the first 13 racks,and Earl was only the same 13 games stuck 8 hours later.


I'm certain that the all-time greats wouldn't BE where they are if they had not gambled at some point,even Willie acknowledged this fact. I'm also sure that the gambling phase made it a LOT easier to put racks together and snap off tournaments. Gambling greatness and tournament greatness are 2 totally different animals,but BOTH have to be considered in all cases when regarding all-time status. Tommy D.
 
Tokyo-dave said:
Lot's of posts recently about the better money players, and the best action from your home state ect. I'm curious about the well known pros that are not known to play for money either having quit after having some sucess on the tour, or having never been a money player in the first place.
dave
Click to expand...

TokyoD.,
Maybe a better question would be who gambles on their own money. To my way of thinking, playing for stakes with a backer involves much less pressure than either tournament play or playing for your own cash.
 
Thorsten Hohmann has never gambled on a pool game...........ever. I heard someone asking him to play for money but he refused, so I asked him when the last time he gambled was. He paused, thought about it and said "Never" which is really kind of surprising but it kind of makes sense.
 
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