Why have many of the top older players' games

[midnightpulp]

declined?

I remember when I first started following Pro Pool in the 90s, the main names were Varner (He seemed to have a mortal lock on the Number 1 ranking spot), Earl, Rempe, Hall, Sigel, Reyes, Davenport, Vickery (an always underrated darkhorse) and Archer, et. al (Feel free to throw in more dominant players).

With the exception of Reyes and Earl (I know his game is not what it used to be, but he still consistently contends, and if he got a better handle on his emotions, he could still be a Top 5 player). I find hard to believe these players still can't contend with all of the hot players of today.

It seems once these guys hit 40, their game automatically degrades. I'm 27, so I don't know the effects age has on hand-eye coordination and mental focus, but besides that, what else do you need? Stamina? If a player keeps fit, I see no reason why they'd would have stamina issues (Hall has obvious problems in this regard). Athleticism? Is it really that much of a factor in pool?

30-40 years ago, it seemed all the dominant players were 35+. How many championships did Lassiter, Mosconi, Miz, etc win after 35.

Is it because many of these players get burned out and seek other ventures? Or could it be that the younger players have easier access to instuction and theory about the game, which accelerates their evolution? I mean, a Men's World Champion under the age of 20. Unheard of 15 years ago. The only pool prodigy I ever heard of back then was McCready (Mosconi was also heralded as one), playing World Class speed at 16. Now there seems to be dozens of them.

Was Fast Eddie Felson's quote true? Is pool really a "Young Man's Game"?

 

[ribdoner]

declined?

I remember when I first started following Pro Pool in the 90s, the main names were Varner (He seemed to have a mortal lock on the Number 1 ranking spot), Earl, Rempe, Hall, Sigel, Reyes, Davenport, Vickery (an always underrated darkhorse) and Archer, et. al (Feel free to throw in more dominant players).

With the exception of Reyes and Earl (I know his game is not what it used to be, but he still consistently contends, and if he got a better handle on his emotions, he could still be a Top 5 player). I find hard to believe these players still can't contend with all of the hot players of today.

It seems once these guys hit 40, their game automatically degrades. I'm 27, so I don't know the effects age has on hand-eye coordination and mental focus, but besides that, what else do you need? Stamina? If a player keeps fit, I see no reason why they'd would have stamina issues (Hall has obvious problems in this regard). Athleticism? Is it really that much of a factor in pool?

30-40 years ago, it seemed all the dominant players were 35+. How many championships did Lassiter, Mosconi, Miz, etc win after 35.

Is it because many of these players get burned out and seek other ventures? Or could it be that the younger players have easier access to instuction and theory about the game, which accelerates their evolution? I mean, a Men's World Champion under the age of 20. Unheard of 15 years ago. The only pool prodigy I ever heard of back then was McCready (Mosconi was also heralded as one), playing World Class speed at 16. Now there seems to be dozens of them.

Was Fast Eddie Felson's quote true? Is pool really a "Young Man's Game"?

To a degree 9 ball is a young man's game much more than 1P, straight pool, etc.

Nowadays, as people mature, life happens and/or many gifted players develop other interests.

Last but not least many also burn out from the 100 hr+ per week grind of husslin, scufflin, trying to score and/or compromising their integrity in order to not live off family or friends.

Hopefully the landscape will change...

 

[ShootingArts]

two things

I'd have to point out two major issues. One is that the younger players can find knowledge if they seek it so a lifetime of experience isn't the huge edge it once was.

The other thing is simply the affects of age. Even if you keep twenty-twenty vision which most don't much past forty, your focal range decreases. That is the window where you can see everything in it sharply. We have to compromise more and focus more intently on the most critical area in front of us letting the other areas be more blurry than they were even a few years before. Another issue that I believe is a factor is that our muscles don't fire as cleanly as they once did. We are more prone to a less than true stroke as nerves don't send signals as cleanly and our muscles simply don't tighten and relax as smoothly as they once did. My opinion here but the mechanical failings of the older body are often an issue I believe.

A wise old man can beat a dumb kid but it is a rare old man that can beat a kid with equal knowledge or very close to the same knowledge.

Hu

declined?

I remember when I first started following Pro Pool in the 90s, the main names were Varner (He seemed to have a mortal lock on the Number 1 ranking spot), Earl, Rempe, Hall, Sigel, Reyes, Davenport, Vickery (an always underrated darkhorse) and Archer, et. al (Feel free to throw in more dominant players).

With the exception of Reyes and Earl (I know his game is not what it used to

be, but he still consistently contends, and if he got a better handle on his emotions, he could still be a Top 5 player). I find hard to believe these players still can't contend with all of the hot players of today.

It seems once these guys hit 40, their game automatically degrades. I'm 27, so I don't know the effects age has on hand-eye coordination and mental focus, but besides that, what else do you need? Stamina? If a player keeps fit, I see no reason why they'd would have stamina issues (Hall has obvious problems in this regard). Athleticism? Is it really that much of a factor in pool?

30-40 years ago, it seemed all the dominant players were 35+. How many championships did Lassiter, Mosconi, Miz, etc win after 35.

Is it because many of these players get burned out and seek other ventures? Or could it be that the younger players have easier access to instuction and theory about the game, which accelerates their evolution? I mean, a Men's World Champion under the age of 20. Unheard of 15 years ago. The only pool prodigy I ever heard of back then was McCready (Mosconi was also heralded as one), playing World Class speed at 16. Now there seems to be dozens of them.

Was Fast Eddie Felson's quote true? Is pool really a "Young Man's Game"?

 

[Gerry]

I'm 41 so think about these issue a lot....here's some of the points IMO.

> were living longer and medicine is so much better the age curve is changing dramatically. So 41 is what?....the new 25?

> like was said before information is EASY to attain now. You don't have to lose all your money for a few years to move up the ladder. I'm playing better now then I ever have....go figure.

> a sticky point is my eyes. just this last year I'm noticing slight blurryness when I get tired, or I read a bunch. My eyes still check out at 20/20 but I can tell "specks" are in my future

Gerry

 

[crawfish]

Just plain out tired of the bullshit that goes along with not knowing whether it's feast or famine. Simple. Most move on to "steady" surroundings.

 

[catscradle]

declined?
...

Was Fast Eddie Felson's quote true? Is pool really a "Young Man's Game"?

FWIW, I think it is a matter of time in the game, not age. I'm 62, but due to raising a family and struggling for money didn't have the chance to get serious about the game until about 6 or 7 years ago. At 62, my game has never been better in my life. I'm still totally enthralled with it. For longtime pros, I think they've been fighting to keep that competitive edge for a very long time, it is hard to keep that burning desire and drive when the game becomes a way of life, day in and day out. I do not for a moment think age is a determining factor in pool like in other sports. With the exception of eyesight and maybe a little break speed, what is there to lose. The eyesight is correctable, the break speed isn't that critical. I think it is just desire and the "king of the world" attitude that is lost. I know that in my job (computer programming) which was once very interesting for me, I'm at the point I'm just hanging on for retirement. I do my job, but don't have the old drive anymore, just been doing it too long. I'm sure it is the same for long time pool players, but there mental letdown shows in the public eye. Even if they only lose a little, it shows.
JMHO.

 

[mr8ball]

I have often wondered about this. I am at the age of 49 now and have really noticed a big difference in my game. Of course my back doesn't help matters either. Back about 5 years ago I was really playing good and when my game started going away I looked for answers. The best I could come up with in my case is I am just getting old and have to accept it. My body is getting stiff and i cant hold my concentration like i use to. I try to work as much as possible and try to stay in good shape but it has only done so much. As far as the Pro players it seems that the Americans has lost interest and have found other things to do such as golf. I noticed at one of the tournaments I was at last year when some of the American players were waiting for their next match they were off doing other things like golf while the foreign players were at the pool room playing pool. To me it seems most of our so called top players just don't have the desire to Winn. Maybe if they didn't have sponsors it would be different. I have noticed the ones that don't have a sponsor seem to play much more and are in the green rooms when they are not playing in the tournament. (JMHO)

 

[Island Drive]

declined?



If it's not eyesight, its more than likely lack of play, lack of competition. I've found that my understanding of the game through time has given me the comfort I did not have when I was younger and therefore the ability to play better than my best yet I'm not willing to give up that "time" anymore. I still think a healthy and in shape older person can play extremely well if they have the eyesight and "DESIRE". I look at 10 ball as a great equalizer for the youth against the older crowd in this particular game, now 8 ball, Larry Schwartz would be a test for most any player.

 

[stick8]

young man game

declined?

I remember when I first started following Pro Pool in the 90s, the main names were Varner (He seemed to have a mortal lock on the Number 1 ranking spot), Earl, Rempe, Hall, Sigel, Reyes, Davenport, Vickery (an always underrated darkhorse) and Archer, et. al (Feel free to throw in more dominant players).

With the exception of Reyes and Earl (I know his game is not what it used to be, but he still consistently contends, and if he got a better handle on his emotions, he could still be a Top 5 player). I find hard to believe these players still can't contend with all of the hot players of today.

It seems once these guys hit 40, their game automatically degrades. I'm 27, so I don't know the effects age has on hand-eye coordination and mental focus, but besides that, what else do you need? Stamina? If a player keeps fit, I see no reason why they'd would have stamina issues (Hall has obvious problems in this regard). Athleticism? Is it really that much of a factor in pool?

30-40 years ago, it seemed all the dominant players were 35+. How many championships did Lassiter, Mosconi, Miz, etc win after 35.

Is it because many of these players get burned out and seek other ventures? Or could it be that the younger players have easier access to instuction and theory about the game, which accelerates their evolution? I mean, a Men's World Champion under the age of 20. Unheard of 15 years ago. The only pool prodigy I ever heard of back then was McCready (Mosconi was also heralded as one), playing World Class speed at 16. Now there seems to be dozens of them.

Was Fast Eddie Felson's quote true? Is pool really a "Young Man's Game"?

yes i will have to agree it is a young man game, as i am 70yr now and can only memember when i was competave. but the old saying great to be a has been than a never was!!! eye site gone, old man shakes, not from fear!! got a pill for my sex life, but have not found one for my pool or golf game as of yet any suggestions?????

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

At Least, This Is MY Explanation

Older players are like older cars:

It's the same as buying a new car in 1970. You drive it 8-10 hours EVERY day. You change the oil, replace the filter, replace the battery, change the belts, wash it and paint it, clean it's windows and get it a front end alignment. You take it into areas where it gets bumped and scratched or badly wrecked, so you repair it at great cost. You travel long distances with it and let everyone ride in it.

You continue to do this until 2008 and no matter what, your 1970 prize possession begins to wear out, while the price or fuel and repairs skyrocket.
Sadly, it no longer runs like it used to.

Doug
( the years add up and stings like a b*tch... what's THAT ? I've never heard THAT noise before........ imo )




* Eventually, the wheels wear out, the horn won't blow, the headlights dim and then the battery dies and you end up in the auto graveyard. OY-VEY !



.

 

[whitewolf]

declined?


It seems once these guys hit 40, their game automatically degrades. I'm 27, so I don't know the effects age has on hand-eye coordination and mental focus, but besides that, what else do you need? Stamina? If a player keeps fit, I see no reason why they'd would have stamina issues (Hall has obvious problems in this regard). Athleticism? Is it really that much of a factor in pool?

In golf, most older golfers as far as I know, lose the most in putting.

Sam Snead, for example, could swing as sweet as he ever could at 80, but he developed a real bad case of the 'yips'. He missed way too many short puts.

I don't think anyone has ever been able to put a concrete reason why things deterioate with age.

I am 58 and I don't think age has affected me at all. Matter of fact, I am constaintly improving at pool. That I believe is due in part to a good attitude. So perhaps the mental side has a lot more to do with it than the physical side. I have seen plenty of oldies shoot the damn lights out and who never stopped in pool. In pool, as opposed to golf, the learning curve can continue to rise, which offsets to some degree any physical problems.

 

[ironman]

declined?

I remember when I first started following Pro Pool in the 90s, the main names were Varner (He seemed to have a mortal lock on the Number 1 ranking spot), Earl, Rempe, Hall, Sigel, Reyes, Davenport, Vickery (an always underrated darkhorse) and Archer, et. al (Feel free to throw in more dominant players).

With the exception of Reyes and Earl (I know his game is not what it used to be, but he still consistently contends, and if he got a better handle on his emotions, he could still be a Top 5 player). I find hard to believe these players still can't contend with all of the hot players of today.

It seems once these guys hit 40, their game automatically degrades. I'm 27, so I don't know the effects age has on hand-eye coordination and mental focus, but besides that, what else do you need? Stamina? If a player keeps fit, I see no reason why they'd would have stamina issues (Hall has obvious problems in this regard). Athleticism? Is it really that much of a factor in pool?

30-40 years ago, it seemed all the dominant players were 35+. How many championships did Lassiter, Mosconi, Miz, etc win after 35.

Is it because many of these players get burned out and seek other ventures? Or could it be that the younger players have easier access to instuction and theory about the game, which accelerates their evolution? I mean, a Men's World Champion under the age of 20. Unheard of 15 years ago. The only pool prodigy I ever heard of back then was McCready (Mosconi was also heralded as one), playing World Class speed at 16. Now there seems to be dozens of them.

Was Fast Eddie Felson's quote true? Is pool really a "Young Man's Game"?

I was in Vegas years ago and ran into a bar table legend named Bobby Hernadez {Bakersfield Bob} and was in awe with his play having heard of him for years and years.

He had a peculiar style in that he set hisbrdge hand on the table, would back swing just once and let her rip. I thought it was just weird, but he got results from it.

He had just beaten Surfer Rod playing 8 ball and sat near me at the bar. We engaged a light conversation and finally I had to ask why he took one quick swing and let her rip. He stuck out his hand and it shook very noticably. I asked him why it shook and he replied," you hang around this game for 30 years and see if you don't shake a little".

That was about 25 years ago and now, I understand perfectly. Then, I thought it was a mere excuse.

Age attacks everyone a llittle differently.

 

[jrhendy]

I was in Vegas years ago and ran into a bar table legend named Bobby Hernadez {Bakersfield Bob} and was in awe with his play having heard of him for years and years.

He had a peculiar style in that he set hisbrdge hand on the table, would back swing just once and let her rip. I thought it was just weird, but he got results from it.

He had just beaten Surfer Rod playing 8 ball and sat near me at the bar. We engaged a light conversation and finally I had to ask why he took one quick swing and let her rip. He stuck out his hand and it shook very noticably. I asked him why it shook and he replied," you hang around this game for 30 years and see if you don't shake a little".

That was about 25 years ago and now, I understand perfectly. Then, I thought it was a mere excuse.

Age attacks everyone a llittle differently.

I had the misfortune of running into Bakersfield Bobby in El Monte, Ca on a bar table in the early 60's. My brother was with me, having heard about the money I was winning playing pool in bars and wanting some. I'll never forget how this no position playing, straight shooting guy with calluses all over his hands just robbed me. My brother never wanted in again. I heard Bobby quit playing years ago because of eye problems. As to getting old & playing, I am 68 and still mixing it up whenever I can, usually one pocket anymore. Some days I jump every time I try to draw or power in a shot and some days I still have it, but those days are getting fewer and fewer. I watched Grady play (streaming video) a couple weeks ago at a tournament in Mississippi and noticed he one strokes a lot of his shots his shots anymore. Still a formidable player with all his knowledge, but not near the guy who gave me 8 to 6 and robbed me in the 70's. I guess I'm lucky I can play at all. Just wish there was more action like the old days. John

 

[Island Drive]

I had the misfortune of running into Bakersfield Bobby in El Monte, Ca on a bar table in the early 60's. My brother was with me, having heard about the money I was winning playing pool in bars and wanting some. I'll never forget how this no position playing, straight shooting guy with calluses all over his hands just robbed me. My brother never wanted in again. I heard Bobby quit playing years ago because of eye problems. As to getting old & playing, I am 68 and still mixing it up whenever I can, usually one pocket anymore. Some days I jump every time I try to draw or power in a shot and some days I still have it, but those days are getting fewer and fewer. I watched Grady play (streaming video) a couple weeks ago at a tournament in Mississippi and noticed he one strokes a lot of his shots his shots anymore. Still a formidable player with all his knowledge, but not near the guy who gave me 8 to 6 and robbed me in the 70's. I guess I'm lucky I can play at all. Just wish there was more action like the old days. John

Yeah John, seems like not there are not as many gamblers and a heck of allot more lock artists. I've been out of play for allot of years now and the nits still want weight even when they know your two balls worse than before. I also have found it amusing at times in the last ten years when I have played a good young player and locked horns and after 7 or 8 hours and started pulling away they would quit and say they were getting tired of losing or I am I wearing you out?? ckle

 

[jrhendy]

Yeah John, seems like not there are not as many gamblers and a heck of allot more lock artists. I've been out of play for allot of years now and the nits still want weight even when they know your two balls worse than before. I also have found it amusing at times in the last ten years when I have played a good young player and locked horns and after 7 or 8 hours and started pulling away they would quit and say they were getting tired of losing or I am I wearing you out?? ckle

You are usually giving them odds on the $$ and taking the worst of it just to get down. I still outrun it once and a while and will keep on trying. I am on my way to Hard Times today to make someones Christmas a little brighter. Will be lucky to get $50 a game one pocket taking the worst of it. I broke even with the guy I played on Weds. so he will probably want a ball LOL. John

 

[crawfish]

I'm forty and can attest to the "lack of playing" of today. In the late eighties, early nineties you saw people actually "try" someone. Now, I take a resume' with me and photos. Then, I offer at least one ball to my disadvantage just to get into something. Different world. Lock artists are actually proud to wear that badge, now. That used to be a term that noone wanted.

 

[Fatboy]

declined?

I remember when I first started following Pro Pool in the 90s, the main names were Varner (He seemed to have a mortal lock on the Number 1 ranking spot), Earl, Rempe, Hall, Sigel, Reyes, Davenport, Vickery (an always underrated darkhorse) and Archer, et. al (Feel free to throw in more dominant players).

With the exception of Reyes and Earl (I know his game is not what it used to be, but he still consistently contends, and if he got a better handle on his emotions, he could still be a Top 5 player). I find hard to believe these players still can't contend with all of the hot players of today.

It seems once these guys hit 40, their game automatically degrades. I'm 27, so I don't know the effects age has on hand-eye coordination and mental focus, but besides that, what else do you need? Stamina? If a player keeps fit, I see no reason why they'd would have stamina issues (Hall has obvious problems in this regard). Athleticism? Is it really that much of a factor in pool?

30-40 years ago, it seemed all the dominant players were 35+. How many championships did Lassiter, Mosconi, Miz, etc win after 35.

Is it because many of these players get burned out and seek other ventures? Or could it be that the younger players have easier access to instuction and theory about the game, which accelerates their evolution? I mean, a Men's World Champion under the age of 20. Unheard of 15 years ago. The only pool prodigy I ever heard of back then was McCready (Mosconi was also heralded as one), playing World Class speed at 16. Now there seems to be dozens of them.

Was Fast Eddie Felson's quote true? Is pool really a "Young Man's Game"?

i was wondering the same thing, hell i took years off, i'm 40 and improving faster than ever before even though my back is terrible, my coordination is better than ever, pool is easier than ever for me. i dont know why, thus your question from my experience should answere itself, older players should be a threat, perhaps they are just sick of pool

 

[midnightpulp]

FWIW, I think it is a matter of time in the game, not age. I'm 62, but due to raising a family and struggling for money didn't have the chance to get serious about the game until about 6 or 7 years ago. At 62, my game has never been better in my life. I'm still totally enthralled with it. For longtime pros, I think they've been fighting to keep that competitive edge for a very long time, it is hard to keep that burning desire and drive when the game becomes a way of life, day in and day out. I do not for a moment think age is a determining factor in pool like in other sports. With the exception of eyesight and maybe a little break speed, what is there to lose. The eyesight is correctable, the break speed isn't that critical. I think it is just desire and the "king of the world" attitude that is lost. I know that in my job (computer programming) which was once very interesting for me, I'm at the point I'm just hanging on for retirement. I do my job, but don't have the old drive anymore, just been doing it too long. I'm sure it is the same for long time pool players, but there mental letdown shows in the public eye. Even if they only lose a little, it shows.
JMHO.

I 100% agree with this.

With all the advancements in medical technology, I think middle age is the new "prime of life." There's been many times where I've mistaken someone for being in their 20s when in fact, they're in their late 30s or early 40s.

If people exercise, eat right, maintain a healthy attitude, I see no reason why their physical skills should deteriote with regard to a game like pool.

 

[hippiepool]

great answers ...! you are right ....I was a 'c' player for a while after I started playing again , now I'm a strong 'b' (in my opinion ) and could quickly become an 'a' when I start playing more often ....I know a guy in Indy who came up when he was around my age , I believe health and mental attitude are big factors ...I'm 54 by the way ...

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

BURP ! Excuuuuuuuse ME..... Pass Me Another Beer, Please

If people exercise, eat right, maintain a healthy attitude, I see no reason why their physical skills should deteriote with regard to a game like pool.

Well yeah, sure. But, what about all of us regular normal people ?
Doug
( eating a chili cheese dog while I typer this )




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