Why not Pinegar?

S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The_JV said:
If this is the actual case, then the bleeding hearts for the poor broke pool player need to reset their perspective.

The mosconi is what...?..., a 15k payday just for showing up. You don't even need to pot a ball to get that cheque. So you travel to select places around the country playing pool (not internationally), because that's what guys earning a living playing pool do. ...and you focus on events that could put you on the Mosconi radar (if you're that good) because its a guaranteed payday.

How many MR pts events are there in the States now...? A dozen...? More than enough to make the US squad
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Just looking at MR events point rankings
SVB 2nd in world behind FSR, 1st USA
Skylar Woodward 13th in world, 2nd USA
Shane Wolford 34th in world, 3rd USA
Billy Thorpe 45th in world, 4th USA
Oscar Dominguez 47th in world, 5th USA
Tyler Styer 48th in world, 6th USA
BJ Ussery 69th in world, 7th in USA
Hunter Lombardo 79th in world, 8th in USA
Lukas Francasso-Verner 84th in world, 9th USA
Nicholas De Leon 90th in world, 10th USA
Jeremy Sossei 97th in world, 11th in USA
Donny Mills 98th in world, 12th in USA

Johnathan Pinegar is 116th in world, 15th in US.
I'd put him up vs anyone from Wolford down and make money....the rankings mean nothing.
Deciding by points is not gonna get us there.

SVB, Woodward, Henny, Chohan and then Wolford or Oscar. Be about our best shot.
 
S

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The_JV said:
If this is the actual case, then the bleeding hearts for the poor broke pool player need to reset their perspective.

The mosconi is what...?..., a 15k payday just for showing up. You don't even need to pot a ball to get that cheque. So you travel to select places around the country playing pool (not internationally), because that's what guys earning a living playing pool do. ...and you focus on events that could put you on the Mosconi radar (if you're that good) because its a guaranteed payday.

How many MR pts events are there in the States now...? A dozen...? More than enough to make the US squad
Click to expand...

it's 20k for each player on the losing team this year, 40k for each winning team player
 
T

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
SBC said:
So what ranking is Earl in US in your opinion?
He's in the top 8 for sure of playing US pros.
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Well according to the AZB player profile. Earl has had the following finishes: (I threw out his Mosconi invite)
2021:
  • 49th US-Open
  • 17th International
2022:
  • 5th and 7th at TurningStone
  • 25th International
  • 1st at the "Super Billiards Expo"
2023:
  • 15th at the Premier Pool League
  • 5th at the Super Billiards Expo
Throw away the 15k Mosconi invite and he logged 18k since 2021.

To make my life easier. I went to the 8th highest American on the leaderboard this year. ...guess who...?..., yep it's Pinegar at $21k. With 2x 3rds, 2x 2nd, and a 1st this year to his credit. If I add the previous two years as I did for Earl. Then Pinegar has double the earnings of Earl.

Next up is Styer with $88k during the same time span. Billy T with $79k. Wolford w/ $68k. Lunda w/ $69k. Chohan $178k. Sky ~$210k, SVB ~$330k

There are many who have much higher earnings than Earl over the last 3yrs. You can use fargo or earnings. IMO earnings does provide you a better sense of recent results/effort

Earl is very much a case of "what have you done lately". To be clear I'm not an Earl hater. I just don't have rose coloured lenses on my readers. Clearly their are many who are putting more time in and earning better results.
 
jokrswylde

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The_JV said:
If this is the actual case, then the bleeding hearts for the poor broke pool player need to reset their perspective.

The mosconi is what...?..., a 15k payday just for showing up. You don't even need to pot a ball to get that cheque. So you travel to select places around the country playing pool (not internationally), because that's what guys earning a living playing pool do. ...and you focus on events that could put you on the Mosconi radar (if you're that good) because its a guaranteed payday.

How many MR pts events are there in the States now...? A dozen...? More than enough to make the US squad
Click to expand...
My point being, do you like someone like Hennessee's chances at aWhite Diamonds, buffalo billiards, or a Big Tyme Road Show tourney where the Calcuttas can hit six figures and they are all within driving distance. vs. MC points qualifier such as Turning Stone or Derby City?

Someone at Hennessee's level might choose to stay local, play the smaller tourney, and increase their odds of a big payday. That's all I'm saying.
 
T

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
jokrswylde said:
Someone at Hennessee's level might choose to stay local, play the smaller tourney, and increase their odds of a big payday. That's all I'm saying.
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I get it, and he isn't a rotation specialist like the elite that enjoy the MR events.

I just think that it's a viable option to play the MR pt events, and it's more of a choice then a 'forced hand' that many think lower end pros are forced into.

If I was Pinegar, then I'd probably stick with formats that allow me to slow grind opponents into a losing comma as well.
 
jokrswylde

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The_JV said:
I get it, and he isn't a rotation specialist like the elite that enjoy the MR events.

I just think that it's a viable option to play the MR pt events, and it's more of a choice then a 'forced hand' that many think lower end pros are forced into.

If I was Pinegar, then I'd probably stick with formats that allow me to slow grind opponents into a losing comma as well.
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Agreed. I think we are thinking the same...you are just better writing it out!
 
S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The_JV said:
Well according to the AZB player profile. Earl has had the following finishes: (I threw out his Mosconi invite)
2021:
  • 49th US-Open
  • 17th International
2022:
  • 5th and 7th at TurningStone
  • 25th International
  • 1st at the "Super Billiards Expo"
2023:
  • 15th at the Premier Pool League
  • 5th at the Super Billiards Expo
Throw away the 15k Mosconi invite and he logged 18k since 2021.

To make my life easier. I went to the 8th highest American on the leaderboard this year. ...guess who...?..., yep it's Pinegar at $21k. With 2x 3rds, 2x 2nd, and a 1st this year to his credit. If I add the previous two years as I did for Earl. Then Pinegar has double the earnings of Earl.

Next up is Styer with $88k during the same time span. Billy T with $79k. Wolford w/ $68k. Lunda w/ $69k. Chohan $178k. Sky ~$210k, SVB ~$330k

There are many who have much higher earnings than Earl over the last 3yrs. You can use fargo or earnings. IMO earnings does provide you a better sense of recent results/effort

Earl is very much a case of "what have you done lately". To be clear I'm not an Earl hater. I just don't have rose coloured lenses on my readers. Clearly their are many who are putting more time in and earning better results.
Click to expand...
Listen
Nobody plays
Mostly cuz they all play for peanuts

I'm asking where you'd put Earl...say vs Pinegar?
I'd buy that stream.
 
C

CharlesUFarley

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
decent dennis said:
Bergman is not going to travel.
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Understood, but I'm addressing the claim that he dogs it under pressure. From what I've seen of him in Mosconi Cup play, he appeared to handle the pressure just fine. I actually thought he stood out as particularly solid in that department and has come with some big shots in big moments.
 
S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jokrswylde said:
My point being, do you like someone like Hennessee's chances at aWhite Diamonds, buffalo billiards, or a Big Tyme Road Show tourney where the Calcuttas can hit six figures and they are all within driving distance. vs. MC points qualifier such as Turning Stone or Derby City?

Someone at Hennessee's level might choose to stay local, play the smaller tourney, and increase their odds of a big payday. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
Henny is widely known..
There is no hiding.

Turning Stone on 8/31 won't have SVB....possibly Fedor. Shaw will be there of course.

I'd back Henny to come play....knowing he can place top 4 routinely.

I tried to back 3 pros to travel and play events and gamble...none ever happened.
I tried to host Bergman vs Shaw 2 with all Bergmans expenses paid, entry into turning stone and 2k in the middle from me for the players. 100k won't get him to move.

When you ask why a pro wouldn't travel the answers are multifarious and unique to each of their idiosyncrasies.


.
 
Tennesseejoe

Tennesseejoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sjm said:
In the past, I felt that players who don't play in Matchroom events aren't given serious consideration for inclusion on the Mosconi team. Last year's Earl pick proved to me that I was wrong. Earl had played in just one of the Matchroom majors in the two years leading up to the 2022 Mosconi.

Pinegar is a fine player and as worthy as many who have been selected, but the biggest problem he has is that he's one of the slowest players on the planet. Add to this that he has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way over the years and it leads me to believe that Pinegar won't get serious consideration. Another point worth considering in that he couldn't be expected to play nine ball up to his Fargo, because his Fargo reflects stellar results in other disciplines (such as his silver at the Derby City 1-pocket this year).
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What would Pinegar add to the USA Team....and what would he add to the efforts of MR to build a pool dynasty? There have been many folks on both sides of ocean pouring effort in to this sporting/entertainment challenge. He would be a square peg in a round hole. But he is a talented competitor.
 
sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
mikepage said:
For perspective, in the last 18 months or so, he has 1187 games in the system, of which just 55 are one pocket. His rating is essentially the same with or without the one-pocket games. It might be 1 point higher if the one-pocket games were removed.
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Thanks, Mike.
 
A

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
CharlesUFarley said:
Understood, but I'm addressing the claim that he dogs it under pressure. From what I've seen of him in Mosconi Cup play, he appeared to handle the pressure just fine. I actually thought he stood out as particularly solid in that department and has come with some big shots in big moments.
Click to expand...
Bergman's record after 4 appearances at the Mosconi Cup is 1 win in 7 matches in singles and 5 wins in 10 matches in doubles. (And 2 out of 4 in the teams matches.)
 
Ken_4fun

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

Why not Pinegar?​


I have seen him for years at DCC. Without fail, he was an incredible jerk everytime.

I wouldnt give him the honor of representing us. That's just me.

Character means something.

Ken
 
W

westcoast

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SBC said:
Just looking at MR events point rankings
SVB 2nd in world behind FSR, 1st USA
Skylar Woodward 13th in world, 2nd USA
Shane Wolford 34th in world, 3rd USA
Billy Thorpe 45th in world, 4th USA
Oscar Dominguez 47th in world, 5th USA
Tyler Styer 48th in world, 6th USA
BJ Ussery 69th in world, 7th in USA
Hunter Lombardo 79th in world, 8th in USA
Lukas Francasso-Verner 84th in world, 9th USA
Nicholas De Leon 90th in world, 10th USA
Jeremy Sossei 97th in world, 11th in USA
Donny Mills 98th in world, 12th in USA

Johnathan Pinegar is 116th in world, 15th in US.
I'd put him up vs anyone from Wolford down and make money....the rankings mean nothing.
Deciding by points is not gonna get us there.

SVB, Woodward, Henny, Chohan and then Wolford or Oscar. Be about our best shot.
Click to expand...
is Corey Deuel semi-retired now?
 
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