Wood pins

Biloxi69

Registered
Hello everyone,
I’ve attached an example pic of a wooden thread pin that’s broken. I get a few of those for repair every so often but I always suggest they buy a new shaft for about 125.00 online. Is this worth the trouble repairing vs buying a new shaft. 90% of the guys that plays carom billiards at my area have these kind of joints. To repair this, first I would need to invest in a tap/dye 1/2x10. Not sure where I can find a set. Face off the broken wooden pin and tap/drill like putting on a new tenon. Make a new wood pin to insert. What are your thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
 

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thoffen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Quick search doesn't find 1/2"-10TPI die very easily for me, but they must exist. If someone has a good playing shaft for them, I think it's worth repairing.
 

Scratchy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Live tooling would work better and give cleaner threads than a die.

Seems like I have seen 1/2-10 dies somewhere, and if I can dig up that info I’ll share it. I think most woodworking sites sell 1/2-8 though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not a big problem with live tooling on a metal lathe, which most cue-makers use for joint work.
Only way i can imagine to keep everything concentric, anyway.
I'd strongly consider making the replacement pin out of PH, black locust, maybe straight grain holly - something tough, strong, yet dense enough even with coarse grain to hold good threads. Pin is small enough volume it won't change the balance.

Like anything new, it would take a bit of time to learn and proof your process.
After that you could probably set up and do "several" at one time in a morning or afternoon.

smt
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One only, or batches of 6+?

Job repeats once/month?
Or "once every few years"?

Will you provide a standard for the threads?
Or is each one fit to a given butt?

smt
 

Biloxi69

Registered
I would say the job repeats 1-2 times a year. That’s why I’m not sure investing in time and effort is worth it. Buying a new shaft for 129 vs paying for a repair.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It kind of gets down to your equipment and process.
For instance, i have 3 metal lathes and an additional wood-metal lathe here. But the 2 with threading don't have spindle bores big enough to stick a butt through. Or even 7/8" on the one with a threading gearbox. (SB 10K longbed) So i use a steady when threading parts (live tooling) on an un-finished cue butt. (like a Delrin butt sleeve).

If you have a lathe with a bore that will easily swallow a cue butt, it still needs tooling to center the cue at both ends but you might have most of it already made for your regular work.

To work on a customer's cue on my lathe, i would need to make a different ball-bearing center steady, with collets.
In some ways, if you were to guaranteed 30 cues a year in batches of 6 or more, this could actually be the ideal set up: Put the steady on the lathe, already centered, pop a collet in it, and grab the other end in a soft collet in the spindle. Wham, bam, ready to work parallel & on center.
Between tailstock tooling and carriage tooling, the process could be streamlined for real efficiency.

Ideally you would have a nogo - go gage made as well, maybe in steps.
Still have to measure to the almost final cut, but it saves that 10 minutes at the end taking spark our passes wondering "is this really a snug fit, or is it too tight, or did i blow the tolerance?" :) I do have thread mics, but they are still a little nebulous on wood.....

If every time is one only, when it comes in, within a couple days; you are probably correct: tell them to go buy one.
If you have the set up and are practiced, I'm dumb enough to think a person could charge about 1/3 the new cost (that you stated) and make money on batches of 6 or more. "Someone" has to provide a standard (gage). The first batch would probably not make your preferred hourly rate, due to proving set ups and tooling. I think a new pin would be superior to the original if made out of "suitable wood".

Also, if the choice were to work between centers after the new dowel was glued in, to thread, then the customer would have to buy a tip replacement on top of that. Depends how influencing you think driving with a collet is at the tip end of the shaft. I can think of using an o-ring in a special collet to minimize that. How much run-out are you willing to guarantee as the general standard for the job?

smt
 
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Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Doing a 1/2-10 wood pin isn't a problem, anyone with a metal lathe can do that. I do recommend you use a harder wood or phenolic, I've done a few in Katalox, that worked great.
 

Biloxi69

Registered
I have a large bore midamerica. Not sure that’s accurate enough and do not have the live tooling threader. Would like to invest and learn how to use it though. Thanks for great advice.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a large bore midamerica. Not sure that’s accurate enough and do not have the live tooling threader. Would like to invest and learn how to use it though. Thanks for great advice.
Not sure if you can live thread with the midamerica lathe. Your lathe needs a leadscrew in order to live thread. I'm pretty sure that you'll be able to dial in the runout, so that shouldn't be a problem.
 

Biloxi69

Registered
Just when I say I won’t do it I get another shaft with a broken wood pin. I decided to make a pin out of Purple Heart. Found a floating die holder similar to a tenon threader but larger. When it comes in I’ll post the results when I finish threading it. Spin dead straight for now. Basically follow you guys instructions. It was fun. Many thanks for your wisdom:)
 

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Renegade_56

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not sure what thread he uses in his carom cues but I would ask Mr. Chuck Starkey what he uses. He may have an option for you.
Let me clarify my statement, I think the picture does show what appears to be a typical 60 degree V thread, but it is not a common size. Standard sizes are generally either 1/2-13 or 1/2-20. A 1/2-10 would likely be listed as a Special thread in a Machinists handbook. There are at least taps available for that size but not typically found in general hardware or automotive supply houses. Since there are taps, I would assume dies are available as well, but like someone above said, better to single point that in wood.
 
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