# World 10-Ball Championships, Feb-Mar 2024, Las Vegas, The Rio

#### VVP

##### Registered
I agree definitely no shoot out. I guess I could get with the concept if it was longer races. I just think the short races can make a lower player win. I was actually in a tournament playing this format and I went quite far but was way below the class of the field and would t have got anywhere in races to 9
I believe if you add up the results the vast majority of the players who won the match would have won more games since they introduced the 3 set.

If someone won by the first two sets then they clearly won a race to 8. If it goes to three sets without a shootout there is only one combination that I can come up with where the loser would win more games; 4-3 loss, 0-4 win and 4-2 loss; here the winner (shown first) wins 8 games and the loser wins 9 games, which I believe would be a low probability of occurring...the math guys can calculate the probability.

If it goes to a shootout then it is possible for the winner to win 8 games (if you check the shootout as 1 game) and the loser to win 10, which would suck but the probability of this happening might also be low. Here it would be 4-3 loss, 0-4 win, 3-3 tie and lose shootout.

Maybe there might be a flaw in my thinking, but this is my thought when I saw your post.

#### AlexWesterlund

##### Member
I believe if you add up the results the vast majority of the players who won the match would have won more games since they introduced the 3 set.

If someone won by the first two sets then they clearly won a race to 8. If it goes to three sets without a shootout there is only one combination that I can come up with where the loser would win more games; 4-3 loss, 0-4 win and 4-2 loss; here the winner (shown first) wins 8 games and the loser wins 9 games, which I believe would be a low probability of occurring...the math guys can calculate the probability.

If it goes to a shootout then it is possible for the winner to win 8 games (if you check the shootout as 1 game) and the loser to win 10, which would suck but the probability of this happening might also be low. Here it would be 4-3 loss, 0-4 win, 3-3 tie and lose shootout.

Maybe there might be a flaw in my thinking, but this is my thought when I saw your post.
I went through the matches (80 of them) and, if I didn’t miscount, 73/80 (91.25%) of them featured the winner winning more overall racks. 5/80 (6.25%) featured both players winning the same amount, and 2/80 (2.5%) featured the loser winning more overall racks. While this is a minor problem, I think the complaints are a bit overblown.

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#### dnschmidt

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No way that the winner should be determined by spot shots. Why not adopt a Super Bowl format. Lag for break. Winer of the lag breaks. if you win that rack the other player gets a break and a chance to win that game. This alternate format goes until one player wins two racks in a row. THAT'S POOL. not this spot shot festival which I personally HATE!!!

#### Monti

##### Active member
I believe if you add up the results the vast majority of the players who won the match would have won more games since they introduced the 3 set.

If someone won by the first two sets then they clearly won a race to 8. If it goes to three sets without a shootout there is only one combination that I can come up with where the loser would win more games; 4-3 loss, 0-4 win and 4-2 loss; here the winner (shown first) wins 8 games and the loser wins 9 games, which I believe would be a low probability of occurring...the math guys can calculate the probability.

If it goes to a shootout then it is possible for the winner to win 8 games (if you check the shootout as 1 game) and the loser to win 10, which would suck but the probability of this happening might also be low. Here it would be 4-3 loss, 0-4 win, 3-3 tie and lose shootout.

Maybe there might be a flaw in my thinking, but this is my thought when I saw your post.
I get what you are saying but that can also mean that a player is 7-4 up and essentially is tied- which doesn’t seem right. I know tennis is similar, could be 6-0 then 6-7 but the races are longer so less luck comes into it?

#### iusedtoberich

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What do you guys think is going on with Shane. He was dominating 10 ball with his break (and play after the break) for a solid decade. All these Predator events are 10 ball, and he's not doing well in them. When he played Corey in TAR1 it was a wood rack, and he was making 3-4 balls on the break. Now, he doesn't seem to be getting good break results.

#### 8cree

##### Reverse Engineer
Silver Member
What do you guys think is going on with Shane. He was dominating 10 ball with his break (and play after the break) for a solid decade. All these Predator events are 10 ball, and he's not doing well in them. When he played Corey in TAR1 it was a wood rack, and he was making 3-4 balls on the break. Now, he doesn't seem to be getting good break results.
Who racked the TAR event racks?

Aren't you gonna ask what happened to Filler and Gorst too? They have been winning everything in sight, but these last 2 events, they are nonfactors.

Meh. That's how the balls roll sometimes.

#### VVP

##### Registered
I get what you are saying but that can also mean that a player is 7-4 up and essentially is tied- which doesn’t seem right. I know tennis is similar, could be 6-0 then 6-7 but the races are longer so less luck comes into it?
There isn't much luck factor in 10 ball other than rolls. The 3 sets matches have been lasting over 2 hours, which is reasonable for pool matches.

#### WardS

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Las Vegas Open is the week before the World Championship, so the entries for the Las Vegas event give us a hint as to many of the top guys who will be there for the World event (scroll down to the Player List): https://probilliardseries.com/vegas-2024/vegas-open-men/

Most notable missing from LV: Raga, Shaw, Orcollo
Orcollo can’t get into the US

#### spartan

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shaw is out.
Losers side qualification matches (to qualify for knockout round of 16) filled with almost all 800+ . 16 in KO stage out of 64 means 25% qualify which is brutal with such strong field. By comparison, for Matchroom World 9 Ball, 64 out of 128 qualify which is 50%

#### spartan

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There isn't much luck factor in 10 ball other than rolls. The 3 sets matches have been lasting over 2 hours, which is reasonable for pool matches.
I think in KO stage of 16 players, best of 5 sets should see few major upsets.

#### nicksaint26

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What do you guys think is going on with Shane. He was dominating 10 ball with his break (and play after the break) for a solid decade. All these Predator events are 10 ball, and he's not doing well in them. When he played Corey in TAR1 it was a wood rack, and he was making 3-4 balls on the break. Now, he doesn't seem to be getting good break results.

To me it’s simple the refs are racking!

#### westcoast

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To me it’s simple the refs are racking!
also, he is older and not fully in his prime any more

#### Scrunge19

##### Registered
To me it’s simple the refs are racking!
In the ref’s defense, those predator racks are terrible. They’re really fat on the sides so if you have smaller hands, it can be hard to really squeeze the balls together when pushing the rack onto the spot.

#### BasementDweller

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the ref’s defense, those predator racks are terrible. They’re really fat on the sides so if you have smaller hands, it can be hard to really squeeze the balls together when pushing the rack onto the spot.
Actually seems like they've done A LOT better. I haven't seen too many slug racks. Still the unpredictable break really adds a lot more variance. "Getting lucky" on the break is huge.

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#### skogstokig

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Actually seems like they've done A LOT better. I haven't seen too many slug racks. Still the unpredictable break really adds a lot more variancge. "Getting lucky" on the break is huge.

i've seen 2 obvious slugs with no movement, which is a very low number compared to earlier events. the refs are taking longer to rack, so that's probably the reason

#### Positively Ralf

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What do you guys think is going on with Shane. He was dominating 10 ball with his break (and play after the break) for a solid decade. All these Predator events are 10 ball, and he's not doing well in them. When he played Corey in TAR1 it was a wood rack, and he was making 3-4 balls on the break. Now, he doesn't seem to be getting good break results.

He's older and this generation of players are head and shoulders above the majority of players he was playing against.

#### VVP

##### Registered
I think in KO stage of 16 players, best of 5 sets should see few major upsets.
More sets definitely favor the stronger player so there should be "less upsets." However, if they are all 800s then it's really difficult to call a win an upset.

#### sjm

##### Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Losers side qualification matches (to qualify for knockout round of 16) filled with almost all 800+ . 16 in KO stage out of 64 means 25% qualify which is brutal with such strong field. By comparison, for Matchroom World 9 Ball, 64 out of 128 qualify which is 50%.
Yes, it's tough action, but anyone reaching Stage 2 gets at least \$5,250 and anyone winning at least one Stage 2 match is guaranteed at least \$11,000. Let's not treat this as new, for the Predator 10-ball payouts have long been among the most top-heavy in our sport's history.

#### benjaminwah

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gerson vs Kaci, I hope they stream that. Kaci is a beast but Gerson has been the upsetter lately.