WORLD POOL CHAMPIONSHIP (6-10 June2021) Champion $50K

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LOL. Agreed, it's very rare for me to disapprove of anything Matchroom does (although I had quite a few complaints after the Predator LCP event), but they got this wrong, Of course, the big picture is that pulling the event off at all is a minor miracle, but I have to call it as I see it. Looser equipment is a step backward for pool, and with looser equipment, the case for alternate break is a fairly strong one.

They've made the runout less special, and that's not to the liking of this fan. Matchroom, it seems, has taken the view that packages are what the fans want, but I don't think they are right. The fans want to see both players playing. Matches like Mario He vs Tyler Styer, in which one player got practically all of the table time, don't work for me.

I'm all for tighter pockets, but unless everyone is running 5 and 6 packs, I don't see how it really diminishes the event.

I did see some questionable shots go in that I thought wouldn't go on tougher equipment, but they were at pocket speed. At the same, I saw a lot of shots that the pockets rejected because they were hit poorly.
 

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
Bottom bracket has 7 players with a FargoRate of 800 or higher, including 3 of the top 4 rated players in the world:

Shane 827
Filler 826
Shaw 823
Feijen 812
Ruiz 811
Kazakis 802
Oi 801

Top bracket has just two:

Gorst 818
Ouschan 806
 

JusticeNJ

Four Points/Steel Joints
Silver Member
LOL. Agreed, it's very rare for me to disapprove of anything Matchroom does (although I had quite a few complaints after the Predator LCP event), but they got this wrong, Of course, the big picture is that pulling the event off at all is a minor miracle, but I have to call it as I see it. Looser equipment is a step backward for pool, and with looser equipment, the case for alternate break is a fairly strong one.

They've made the runout less special, and that's not to the liking of this fan. Matchroom, it seems, has taken the view that packages are what the fans want, but I don't think they are right. The fans want to see both players playing. Matches like Mario He vs Tyler Styer, in which one player got practically all of the table time, don't work for me.
I'm torn. I think the flip side of this has been some of the big rallies from behind we've seen that were attributable, at least in part, to an error being made and control of the table swinging to the player that's behind. Albin almost upset Gomez with a big comeback, but lost after missing a very makeable 6 when the score was 7-8 Gomez, with Albin at the table. Granted, that match did not feature top flight pool from either player (and Albin is way too young to being going nuclear so soon lol), but control of the table translated to racks won for both players and Gomez easily could have lost that match as much as he won it. Jasmin, for her part, won her second match of the day with a comeback, IIRC.

I do agree with you that the steamroll, lopsided matches just aren't fun to watch anymore. I also don't like seeing the shutouts where one player had control of the table the entire time due to the advantage of the break, and the other player just jumped and kicked all match. For that reason, I liked the ultra tough equipment that translated into contested matches.

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I kind of the like the break rule where ref's have discretion over abusing the soft break. It sort of makes sense to me that after how many years of fussing over it, that template racks solve the "unequal/inconsistent rack problem" and that we've accepted that the corner ball is going to go in when playing 9 ball if the rack is tight/on a template. All that's left is to make sure the players don't get too cute with the break. I'm not sure there's a perfect answer to those three problems. I had both sessions on today, and in nearly every match I watched, there was a mid-set momentum swing and a chance for the other player to capitalized. Some players did just that.

I think the matches have become contested in a different way. With the tough equipment, no run out is guaranteed, and both players usually got an offensive turn at the table due to the equipment. With the easier equipment and the referee having ultimate control over how hard you break, control of the table becomes paramount, and because of the break rule, not everyone got an automatic shot after the break, and there was an initial battle over who got the first offensive shot.

I prefer the Predator LCP equipment, to be honest. But I still feel like there's a good deal of uncertainty in each of these matches and that I'm glued to the matches in a different way.

That being said, and perhaps it's the new cloth, there's been some eye popping sloppy hits that went in. The Albin-Gomez match was full of them. Gomez shot a 4/9 combo that I swear was about a half diamond off, and not all that slow, that managed to drop. Maybe as the days advance those won't go anymore.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
I'm torn. I think the flip side of this has been some of the big rallies from behind we've seen that were attributable, at least in part, to an error being made and control of the table swinging to the player that's behind. Albin almost upset Gomez with a big comeback, but lost after missing a very makeable 6 when the score was 7-8 Gomez, with Albin at the table. Granted, that match did not feature top flight pool from either player (and Albin is way too young to being going nuclear so soon lol), but control of the table translated to racks won for both players and Gomez easily could have lost that match as much as he won it. Jasmin, for her part, won her second match of the day with a comeback, IIRC.

I do agree with you that the steamroll, lopsided matches just aren't fun to watch anymore. I also don't like seeing the shutouts where one player had control of the table the entire time due to the advantage of the break, and the other player just jumped and kicked all match. For that reason, I liked the ultra tough equipment that translated into contested matches.

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I kind of the like the break rule where ref's have discretion over abusing the soft break. It sort of makes sense to me that after how many years of fussing over it, that template racks solve the "unequal/inconsistent rack problem" and that we've accepted that the corner ball is going to go in when playing 9 ball if the rack is tight/on a template. All that's left is to make sure the players don't get too cute with the break. I'm not sure there's a perfect answer to those three problems. I had both sessions on today, and in nearly every match I watched, there was a mid-set momentum swing and a chance for the other player to capitalized. Some players did just that.

I think the matches have become contested in a different way. With the tough equipment, no run out is guaranteed, and both players usually got an offensive turn at the table due to the equipment. With the easier equipment and the referee having ultimate control over how hard you break, control of the table becomes paramount, and because of the break rule, not everyone got an automatic shot after the break, and there was an initial battle over who got the first offensive shot.

I prefer the Predator LCP equipment, to be honest. But I still feel like there's a good deal of uncertainty in each of these matches and that I'm glued to the matches in a different way.

That being said, and perhaps it's the new cloth, there's been some eye popping sloppy hits that went in. The Albin-Gomez match was full of them. Gomez shot a 4/9 combo that I swear was about a half diamond off, and not all that slow, that managed to drop. Maybe as the days advance those won't go anymore.
This is a very nicely judged post, and, just as you say, it cuts both ways. Yes, the big comeback is more likely, but the probability of lopsided matches is also much higher. If you want closer matches on looser equipment, alternate break is definitely the way to go. I agree with you 100% about the break. Ralf Souquet and I once debated the topic of whether the three point rule, which was already in use on Eurotour, is needed for much of a dinner we had together in 2014 at the Rio, and in the end, we just agreed to disagree. I don't think the three point rule is necessary, with the tacit agreement that soft breaking is not allowed and may be penalized to be good enough.
 

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm all for tighter pockets, but unless everyone is running 5 and 6 packs, I don't see how it really diminishes the event.

I did see some questionable shots go in that I thought wouldn't go on tougher equipment, but they were at pocket speed. At the same, I saw a lot of shots that the pockets rejected because they were hit poorly.
Not everyone is running 5 and 6 packs but the number of 5 packs+ much much higher than usual.
On the outside tables , commentators mentioned at least handful and these are those matches they followed. On TV table around 2? There are 12 TV matches out of 160 group stage matches. So 13x number of TV matches. Even if there is 1 x5 pack for every 12 matches , my rough guess is there are at least 5 to 10 x5 packs during group stage. Which is shocking- in any tournaments , how often do you hear 5 packs ?
From Atlarge stats
2019 US open -out of 38 TV table matches there were no 5 pack . Highest was 4 pack.
2021 World Pool masters -out of 23 matches , zero 5 pack. Highest was 3 pack
And here they are running packs left right and center ๐Ÿ˜
 
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Cezar Morales

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Winner breaks are good as it keeps pool exciting as thats whad us as audiences wld like to see with Pros stringing 6-9 packs.
Lets recap one of the greatest display with Wu ran 5 racks to win the title at age 16 but his opponenet had his fair share of chances in a race to 17.
But with the current high level of play , a race to 11 bucks in qualifying stages will be more fair as it gives both players their fair share of chances.
The 30 secs shotclock ensure that the matches stay within TV time.
Reason being in a race to 9, meeting the monster likes of Svb Shaw Biafo or Wu , 9 racks may simply completed with 2 visits or even 1 to the table .
My 2 cents :)
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wow woow, Yasmin was actually down 0-5 and then 1-7 to Mark Gray. Comeback match of the day ๐Ÿ‘

jasmin is the story of the championship so far. amazing. mark gray is a very solid player. she will be playing pecelj next, and i think she has a decent chance
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... they ditched triangle racks and went for templates ....
The last time racking templates were not used in the World 9-Ball Championship was 2007.

[Edit -- But it was the Magic Rack or something similar in the past. The one this year looks quite a bit like an Accu-Rack although, from what you say, I guess it is something else.]
 
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BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a very nicely judged post, and, just as you say, it cuts both ways. Yes, the big comeback is more likely, but the probability of lopsided matches is also much higher. If you want closer matches on looser equipment, alternate break is definitely the way to go. I agree with you 100% about the break. Ralf Souquet and I once debated the topic of whether the three point rule, which was already in use on Eurotour, is needed for much of a dinner we had together in 2014 at the Rio, and in the end, we just agreed to disagree. I don't think the three point rule is necessary, with the tacit agreement that soft breaking is not allowed and may be penalized to be good enough.

Regarding lopsided matches

There's been 159 matches played.

Out of those matches, about 42% were won by a lopsided score (9-4 or worse)

By comparison, in the recent World Pool Masters (with tougher equipment)

There were 23 matches played, and about 53% were won by a lopsided score (7-3 or worse). Including Alex's 9-0 win over Shane.
 
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Skess

Another sidearmer...
Silver Member
I saw that Matchroom's site went down yesterday. I still can't get the draw to come up. Anyone else having issues with it this morning?

EDIT: Odd...I can open it on my phone, but not my computer. Wonder what that's about.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Table two games live on youtube:


๐•ƒ๐•€๐•๐”ผ ๐•Š๐•‹โ„๐”ผ๐”ธ๐•„

Albin Ouschan ๐Ÿ†š Sanjin Pehlivanovic
Joshua Filler ๐Ÿ†š Darren Appleton

You'll be able to watch coverage of both table two matches on Matchroom Pool's YouTube channel today!

#WorldPoolChampionship
 

JT4Annapolis

JT in FL now
1623151864779.png


I guess 4-1/4 but not much of a shelf.
 

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not everyone is running 5 and 6 packs but the number of 5 packs+ much much higher than usual.
On the outside tables , commentators mentioned at least handful and these are those matches they followed. On TV table around 2? There are 12 TV matches out of 160 group stage matches. So 13x number of TV matches. Even if there is 1 x5 pack for every 12 matches , my rough guess is there are at least 5 to 10 x5 packs during group stage. Which is shocking- in any tournaments , how often do you hear 5 packs ?
From Atlarge stats
2019 US open -out of 38 TV table matches there were no 5 pack . Highest was 4 pack.
2021 World Pool masters -out of 23 matches , zero 5 pack. Highest was 3 pack
And here they are running packs left right and center ๐Ÿ˜

This is discouraging.

It is tempting to think that alternating breaks leads to closer matches. It doesn't. It just leads to closer scores.
 
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