Would you call a foul on yourself?

[lfigueroa]

Something I learned somewhere along the line is that not everyone has the same moral compass.

Not much you can do about it in a tournament but stay on your toes. Locally, I guess you just choose who'll you’ll play. We have one guy here that many guys used to play for small money but stopped. It seems that anytime you got in one of those 1pocket game situations were you’re barely nudging the balls behind the rack along the rail to play safe he *always* got a rail, even when he clearly did not. Many have stopped playing him for this very reason.

Last time I told him, after the third incident, “I can’t keep playing someone who is never wrong.”

Lou Figueroa

 

[ShootingArts]

I haven't read . . . This may have been said already . . . We call fouls on ourselves for our own benefit. We do not do it for our opponents although they benefit, too.

Aside from matters of personal integrity, you are right. I have to do it for my own benefit too. My inner compass or gyroscope would be on tilt. It will make me pay ten times over for doing something chickenshit, for the most part! I got to admit there is still a bit of when in Rome to me. I think it is even in the bible somewhere, "do unto others as they do unto you." That might not be the exact wording but close enough!

Hu

 

[KissedOut]

Of course.

 

[Podunker]

Yup. Touch, tip touch, no rail, double hit, push etc. To everybody. I'm silent until spoken to and I'll watch and give you respect while you shoot. I'll even pay you. If I find the opponent is a cheat or just a miserable douchebag sharking, arguing, whining, we all know this person, I may let the gloves drop and give what I get.

 

[g0ds gReeN]

Never played in a tournament setting, but playing games with friends (or league) at a bar I call'em on myself. Heck one time while playing my getting-there-drunk friend, he didn't believe that I fouled even though I clearly didn't catch a rail after OB contact.

 

[Protractor]

I've called fouls/penalties on myself in both golf/pool forever. I don't need/want to win that bad.

In the BCA league that I've been running those of us that play at a higher level out ourselves by tapping the CB after it comes to rest, same as what is seen on pro matches that did not have a ref standing by. We did a clinic on fundamentals recently for the greener players and the first topic was etiquette, part of which covered this topic. They were told, "true, you are not obligated to point out that you fouled but do you really want to win that way on league night?" We also pointed out that when playing a tournament or money game, it is up to them because you would/should expect your opponent to be paying closer attention to the game, compared to league night when it is more about fun.

 

[garczar]

In the BCA league that I've been running those of us that play at a higher level out ourselves by tapping the CB after it comes to rest, same as what is seen on pro matches that did not have a ref standing by. We did a clinic on fundamentals recently for the greener players and the first topic was etiquette, part of which covered this topic. They were told, "true, you are not obligated to point out that you fouled but do you really want to win that way on league night?" We also pointed out that when playing a tournament or money game, it is up to them because you would/should expect your opponent to be paying closer attention to the game, compared to league night when it is more about fun.

Shouldn't matter, league/tourn/gambling. They're basically saying that any time other than bullshit j'off league night its ok to fk your opponent?? Am i reading that right?

 

[Protractor]

I have called fouls on myself many times. If you go with the BS that the other player is the referee when there isn't an official one then you can't expect him to stay in his chair too. With friends, I call fouls, no question. With strangers I call fouls. If a tournament or other reason forces me to play with a person that doesn't call their own fouls I have various ways to deal with them.

The obvious thing is "when in Rome do as the Romans do." Ignore my own fouls if I make one they can't see. What is much more fun is the fake out when the table is open and I have room to play shape from multiple positions. Even the densest soon realizes that they can't see past my ass on many of my shots! It is wide but it ain't that wide. I play shape to hide my shots.

The most fun is the occasional addition to this. I shoot then quickly jerk my head around to look at my opponent! When I do this a time or two I have had people jump out of their chair screaming "FOUL!" "Really, what did I do? You couldn't see." Soon I have them so worried about these imaginary fouls that they are losing their minds. Meantime, I am in a fine mood laughing at them!

Another thing, if my opponent wants me to be their referee, I will act like a referee. You don't see them with their butts glued to a chair and I get up when I need to in order to see a shot too. If it means hanging directly over or in front of a shot to see, well that is what a referee does!

Most people are more than agreeable with calling our own fouls. I find that works best for everyone. If I find myself playing with people with no honor, I never play them again if it can be avoided. I was more of a fight fire with fire kind of guy when I was much younger and constantly in the grease. Not worth the bother these days.

Hu

LoL...reminds me of stuff I did back in the lone wolf days. I continued to some of that after I joined the league but cleaned up my act (well, in league anyways..) after someone sounded me on it and I had started watching pro matches on youtube.

 

[Protractor]

Shouldn't matter, league/tourn/gambling. They're basically saying that any time other than bullshit j'off league night its ok to fk your opponent?? Am i reading that right?

That was not the intent of what we were saying. It's an amateur league that started out as VNEA and switched to BCAPL. Was the same on the goofy-ass city league we also have in this rural area - that it is the non-shooting player's responsibility to sound the shooter on an obvious or perceived foul, and it that doesn't happen, the shooter gets to pretend that it did not happen. We raised the issue because we don't think that is being sportsman-like. We speculate that this rule is in place, at least in the amateur leagues to try to get folks that are more into drinking/other refreshments and socializing to pay attention to their game but I think that has less than ideal unintended consequences.

I out myself even in tournaments if my opponent did not see the foul, but these are not fully refereed. The only time I deviate from that might be if I get in a game with some jackass that hounds me into a game to play for bar stakes. In that case, game on!

There is a saying that an operational definition of integrity is what you do when you think no one is looking/going to find out about, but then I know I am not a paragon of virtue.

 

[Protractor]

If you ask your opponent to watch for a foul does this free you from calling your foul?

If it's a more experienced player, I'd be more inclined to let his call stand. If it's a less experienced player who may be unable to see which ball the cue ball hit first and doesn't understand how to spot a foul by the directions the balls move, I'd be more inclined to call a foul. I typically will tell a player what to look for brie the shot.

Since the range of expertise is pretty wide in our league some of us have taken to taking a video of the shot for review.

 

[Zerksies]

It depends who I'm playing. Friendly I probably would. Some scumbag probably not.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

It depends who I'm playing. Friendly I probably would. Some scumbag probably not.

or someone that wears gloves right?

 

[MTBingNinja]

Depends who I’m playing and the scenario.

 

[Zerksies]

or someone that wears gloves right?

I can't help it if they don't like feeling things

 

[dendweller]

Never played in a tournament setting, but playing games with friends (or league) at a bar I call'em on myself. Heck one time while playing my getting-there-drunk friend, he didn't believe that I fouled even though I clearly didn't catch a rail after OB contact.

I was playing in a 10 ball tournament playing the young asian kid, nice kid, had a hell of a stroke. They were pretty clear in the rules about fouling the 10 ball.
I'm walking around the table and touched the 10 ball with my cue, moved it a little. I said to him, hey, I fouled the 10 ball. He said, no no, you weren't shooting and he put it back. Then he beat me like a rented mule.
That's how it should be.

 

[ShootingArts]

I was playing in a 10 ball tournament playing the young asian kid, nice kid, had a hell of a stroke. They were pretty clear in the rules about fouling the 10 ball.
I'm walking around the table and touched the 10 ball with my cue, moved it a little. I said to him, hey, I fouled the 10 ball. He said, no no, you weren't shooting and he put it back. Then he beat me like a rented mule.
That's how it should be.

I was nodding my head, with you all the way until you got to that beating you like a rented mule part! Common courtesy and manners should prevail at most times. If I am on a team I am much more likely to be a stickler for the rules since my play directly affects other people. Mostly, incidental contact not during the shot, probably let it ride unless you gained an advantage. It was one of the moves local two bit hustlers did, accidentally rearranging the table!

Hu

 

[dendweller]

I was nodding my head, with you all the way until you got to that beating you like a rented mule part! Common courtesy and manners should prevail at most times. If I am on a team I am much more likely to be a stickler for the rules since my play directly affects other people. Mostly, incidental contact not during the shot, probably let it ride unless you gained an advantage. It was one of the moves local two bit hustlers did, accidentally rearranging the table!

Hu

was a tournament, I wasn't hustling, just clumsy, and loosing to a nice kid who shot better than me.

 

[maha]

the answer is to do what is right for the situation at hand.

that applies probably to almost all decisions in life.

 

[Freddy Fuzzmore]

One evening I was playing Patty Purebred and her brother Allen. I cued the nine ball by mistake but they didn't notice so I told um. They said, no you didn't, I said yes I did and they said no you didn't. So I went on as if nothing happened. I tried.

So what foul did the player in the video commit? I figure he must have touched the cue ball when he was stroking the cue. I watched it about four times. I was thinking he might have had gas. It happens...