WPA pulls an IPT on players via poolcomps.com

Johnson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
poolcomps.com charged members a monthly fee of $7.50 to allow players to play in their real $ tournaments and to receive "coaching" to "help promote pool worldwide", they had i believe 8 weekly $10,000 tournies and 1 $5000 tourney along with 10 $500 tournies for that week instead of 1 $10,000 tourney, after this they switched entirely to daily $500 tournies and eventually they had 3 $500 tournies per day and it amounted to 90 $500 tournies per month instead of 4 x $10,000 tournies a month, they ended up having a lil over 100 $500 tournies b4 they disabled the tourney part of the site

http://www.poolcomps.com/web/pageGrab.htm?x=pressRelease4.xml

as far as i know all monies have been paid out for the major tourneys they had (8x10k/1x5k), but the $500 tournies have only been paid up to tourney #25(judging by the $ i've been paid and from what i have heard from others), so this makes roughly $40,000 that they owe their players but have not paid out(iirc they had 105? $500 tournies)


they shut down on 1-26-07 and iirc their tos stated that ALL monies will be paid within 8 weeks, and their was some clause about them modifying payments? or something but all they could do was deduct 10% or either add more money i don't remember the last part but i vividly remember that all monies would be paid within 8 weeks (times up), i followed the IPT fiasco and the way poolcomps set up their tourneys was eerily similar, they paid out most of the tourneys in the beginning without any hiccups but after awhile they SUPPOSEDLY had a problem with paypal thinking their account had been stolen because of the money changing hands, yet there had been no problems with the 10's of 1,000's that they already paid out b4??? another thing that baffles me is how they switched from paying out $40,000 per month to $45,000 a month when they were obviously having some problems


now you are wondering how does the wpa fit into all of this?


http://www.poolcomps.com/web/whoweare.htm

"POOLCOMPS.COM is an initiative of the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS) and the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA). Developed by a team of programmers based in Sydney, Australia, our online Pool coaching site is aimed at teaching the game of Pool to people across the globe and creating a fun and interactive community of Pool players and enthusiasts."

they were supposed to have the "online pool world championship" and be sanctioned by the WPA, they kept pushing the date for this back many times and it never happened

other background about poolcomps.com is that it is ran by steven and peter worth and they are based out of australia, they sponser real pool tournies in australia and i believe they have sponsored euro tour event(s)?, they don't seem like bad guys, just a lil misguided, i always felt they were paying out too much money for online pool tournies and should invest more into real pool tournies, everyone knows pool needs all the help it can get, here's some more info from their site:


"There are three main goals of PoolComps.com

1. To educate players of all ages on how to improve their game
2. To increase the profile of Pool on a global scale
3. To help Pool make it to the Olympics"


i personally don't think pool will ever be in the olympics, but surely this isn't helping it's case, if anything it's showing exactly why it shouldn't be, this is all to familar and the sad thing is i'm not shocked it's basically business as usual for the pool world



i haven't seen anyone else post on here about the non payments, but i have talked to some in private about it, i felt it was best to wait awhile and see what happens, i think knowledge is power and the more that everyone knows the more likely that this problem can be solved, from my dealings with poolcomps in the past i can say that NOTHING they do will ever surprise me, they are very very unpredictable if anything, we could never be paid, they could pay out all the money tommorrow and have tournies going again with improvements and even a 100k online wpc anything is possible


in no way do i think that this is even close to what happened with the IPT, i just hate to see history repeat itself, and pool dig a bigger hole for itself, $7.50 a month isn't much even if u had 2,3, or 4 accounts, to me it is more of a time issue than a $ issue, the major tourneys took up to 12+ hours if u made the final and the $500 tournies took from 5-7 hours to complete


i haven't emailed them to ask what's going on but from what i have heard they haven't been responding to emails so it would be a waste of time anyways


i think that this is likely steve worth's name on here but he only came on it to post 1 message and hasn't really been back since, i will wait and see what people have to say about this and maybe will look to contact the wpa or try and get steve or peter to post on azb about whats going on


http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=9072
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
various problems

Various problems with their tourneys. The multiple accounts you mention were illegal to use in the 10K tournaments but it was blatantly obvious that people were using them, in other words, cheating for an unfair advantage. With the low turnout in the tourneys(in the low hundreds) it was very easy to get into the money rounds. Then if you played yourself you were guaranteed to make a very nice profit on your monthly accounts every week. There seemed to be other problems with some competitors seeming to have an unfair advantage also however that is just an opinion of mine at this point.

The owners have been a little late with payments before but pretty close to the timeframe they claimed money would be paid in. They have also suspended monthly fees for a few months while trying to get their house in order and are not taking new paying members according to the website.

They are having some difficulties both software and business related I believe. I discussed software with them months ago and they seemed quite appreciative of any feedback from a former MasterCNE. With their difficulties coming after the law went into effect other than before, it is possible that the new internet gaming laws which have went into effect in the US are forcing some restructuring too since I suspect a major portion of their client base is here.

I'm not ready to lynch them yet but I quit playing when the 10K tournaments ended so this is the first I heard about monies not being paid. I have covered all of my monthly fees through prize winnings and even bought a small trinket or two with them so I have no complaint coming personally. In addition I still find their practice table and working preferred membership well worth $7.50 a month US since I don't have a table at home and it allows testing and at least some form of play while recovering from major surgery.

Speculation here but Poolcomps.com may be rock solid and restructuring as claimed or they may be brought down by some combination of cheaters rigging their tournaments, software issues, the new internet gaming laws, and possibly business structure or management.

All indications are that the owners are good guys, not scammers. As I understood, they hoped to get people into online pool and have it translate into more people playing real pool. A noble goal although I don't know how well it would have worked.

Hu


Johnson said:
poolcomps.com charged members a monthly fee of $7.50 to allow players to play in their real $ tournaments and to receive "coaching" to "help promote pool worldwide", they had i believe 8 weekly $10,000 tournies and 1 $5000 tourney along with 10 $500 tournies for that week instead of 1 $10,000 tourney, after this they switched entirely to daily $500 tournies and eventually they had 3 $500 tournies per day and it amounted to 90 $500 tournies per month instead of 4 x $10,000 tournies a month, they ended up having a lil over 100 $500 tournies b4 they disabled the tourney part of the site

http://www.poolcomps.com/web/pageGrab.htm?x=pressRelease4.xml

as far as i know all monies have been paid out for the major tourneys they had (8x10k/1x5k), but the $500 tournies have only been paid up to tourney #25(judging by the $ i've been paid and from what i have heard from others), so this makes roughly $40,000 that they owe their players but have not paid out(iirc they had 105? $500 tournies)


they shut down on 1-26-07 and iirc their tos stated that ALL monies will be paid within 8 weeks, and their was some clause about them modifying payments? or something but all they could do was deduct 10% or either add more money i don't remember the last part but i vividly remember that all monies would be paid within 8 weeks (times up), i followed the IPT fiasco and the way poolcomps set up their tourneys was eerily similar, they paid out most of the tourneys in the beginning without any hiccups but after awhile they SUPPOSEDLY had a problem with paypal thinking their account had been stolen because of the money changing hands, yet there had been no problems with the 10's of 1,000's that they already paid out b4??? another thing that baffles me is how they switched from paying out $40,000 per month to $45,000 a month when they were obviously having some problems


now you are wondering how does the wpa fit into all of this?


http://www.poolcomps.com/web/whoweare.htm

"POOLCOMPS.COM is an initiative of the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS) and the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA). Developed by a team of programmers based in Sydney, Australia, our online Pool coaching site is aimed at teaching the game of Pool to people across the globe and creating a fun and interactive community of Pool players and enthusiasts."

they were supposed to have the "online pool world championship" and be sanctioned by the WPA, they kept pushing the date for this back many times and it never happened

other background about poolcomps.com is that it is ran by steven and peter worth and they are based out of australia, they sponser real pool tournies in australia and i believe they have sponsored euro tour event(s)?, they don't seem like bad guys, just a lil misguided, i always felt they were paying out too much money for online pool tournies and should invest more into real pool tournies, everyone knows pool needs all the help it can get, here's some more info from their site:


"There are three main goals of PoolComps.com

1. To educate players of all ages on how to improve their game
2. To increase the profile of Pool on a global scale
3. To help Pool make it to the Olympics"


i personally don't think pool will ever be in the olympics, but surely this isn't helping it's case, if anything it's showing exactly why it shouldn't be, this is all to familar and the sad thing is i'm not shocked it's basically business as usual for the pool world



i haven't seen anyone else post on here about the non payments, but i have talked to some in private about it, i felt it was best to wait awhile and see what happens, i think knowledge is power and the more that everyone knows the more likely that this problem can be solved, from my dealings with poolcomps in the past i can say that NOTHING they do will ever surprise me, they are very very unpredictable if anything, we could never be paid, they could pay out all the money tommorrow and have tournies going again with improvements and even a 100k online wpc anything is possible


in no way do i think that this is even close to what happened with the IPT, i just hate to see history repeat itself, and pool dig a bigger hole for itself, $7.50 a month isn't much even if u had 2,3, or 4 accounts, to me it is more of a time issue than a $ issue, the major tourneys took up to 12+ hours if u made the final and the $500 tournies took from 5-7 hours to complete


i haven't emailed them to ask what's going on but from what i have heard they haven't been responding to emails so it would be a waste of time anyways


i think that this is likely steve worth's name on here but he only came on it to post 1 message and hasn't really been back since, i will wait and see what people have to say about this and maybe will look to contact the wpa or try and get steve or peter to post on azb about whats going on


http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=9072
 

Johnson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
as far as multiple accounts go peter foolishly encouraged the users to join the major tournies with as many names as they wanted, i tried to tell them that it would only hurt them as far as gaining/keeping new users cause it would mainly only benefit the better players because they'd have the best chance to win the most money and they'd be the ones most likely to have a lot of multiple accounts

yes they suspended the paid accounts and said they'd refund fees already paid for that month which they didn't do, it's not totally clear why they shut down but they were having technical difficulties with their daily tourneys but up til then they hadn't had many and out of nowhere the tournies got screwed up, i figure something was changed or possibly sabatoged, who knows

i dont see how gaming laws would effect their site and if it did surely they would of mentioned it, but most of their users were from either europe or australia because it was never really promoted to users in the us other than on azb

no one is getting lynched here but some shady things are happening that shouldn't be, i don't have a problem with restructuring but when u go against your own tos(payments made within 8 weeks) you are stabbing yourself in the back as well as anyone that is in business with you(WPA), i tend to think that their problems could be some related to software, some related to personel and some to their business practices
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TannerPruess

PBIA Instructor
Silver Member
I am stilled owed around $400-500. I really hope the WPA will step in and get things back on track. I know the WPA wouldn't want to get bad publicity by being connected with a site that won't pay out prize money.
 

BlackDragon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"pulled an IPT"...now thats going to be an interesting idiom to explain to english students in forthcoming years if it goes mainstream :cool: Now students, to "pull an IPT'" means to renege on monetary prizes usually associated with competitions. However, it may also convey 'an empty promise' or a sophisticated form of business deception. To say I'm going to do something to win favour, then not doing it. It evolved early twenty first century before being popularly linked to describe GWB's entry into the middle east.
 
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Johnson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i'm owed $1000+ tanner is owed $400+, we're not talking about nickels and dimes here or i wouldn't of bothered, i know there are more people here that are owed money, post up what you are owed and also any other comments, i'm surprised that no one else seems to be bothered by this, or is it just business as usual in the pool world and no big deal?
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
most didn't do poolcomps I suspect

Johnson said:
i'm owed $1000+ tanner is owed $400+, we're not talking about nickels and dimes here or i wouldn't of bothered, i know there are more people here that are owed money, post up what you are owed and also any other comments, i'm surprised that no one else seems to be bothered by this, or is it just business as usual in the pool world and no big deal?


I suspect most didn't do the poolcomps thing. Even if they did, the IPT has people hanging for many times the amount poolcomps may have got people for. Some on this board get air barreled for more on a regular basis too. They aren't going to get too upset about somebody else getting stuck for a few hundreds.

When I said I wasn't ready to lynch the folks at poolcomps yet I meant just that, I wasn't. You took that to imply something else and I wasn't in the mood to type so I let it lay. I'll be a little annoyed if poolcomps doesn't pay up the people they owe but in truth it in no way compares to the IPT. We paid a few dollars and spent a little time playing a video game. Most that got into it, if not all, got back far more than they paid in. Nobody went out and spent thousands or altered their life planning for the poolcomps video game. That is another thing, when it comes down to it that is a video game, this is a pool forum.

Most in the pool or media world never knew or cared that poolcomps existed. The IPT is a different story. Aside from the players there are rumors that they got to the venues and the equipment suppliers. No idea about the television deals but the bottom line is that it is going to be a long time before the IPT is forgotten and it will be much tougher when the next major tour tries to start because trust will be gone.

I hope poolcomps comes back to life. If not RIP poolcomps. It was fun while it lasted. I don't have any whine coming. Please note I said I.

Hu
 

Johnson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
a lot of people here have played on the site and a lot also paid the monthly fees to play in the $ tournies, and a lot are owed money, if u read what i said there is $40,000 owed, to most people that is a substantial amount of money, also if u read what i said u would of seen that in no way was i comparing this to the IPT fiasco as far as impact on pool in general or the players on the IPT, but from your logic any new pool tour(real or virtual) that screws players out of monies won can just say that they didn't hurt anyone as bad as the IPT did because the money they didnt pay out was no where near what the IPT didn't pay, the sad thing is that no one is really surprised by it(i know i'm not) and no one really does anything about(i'm at least posting about it and trying to look for any answers to remedy this problem) it so it is just a never ending process that keeps repeating itself in the wonderful world of pool

so u think that no one here is bothered when the wpa/pco owes money to members of azb? i HIGHLY doubt anyone routinely gets air barreled for $500+, and if they do they don't deserve any sympathy

yes most got more out of it than they put into it but it was pco that offered ridiculous payouts(just like the IPT), that doesn't make it right and although some used this logic to defend the IPT a lot of people didnt agree with it, if u were good enough to win substantial amounts u would be on the other side of the fence wanting some answers as to why

do u think people that have success playing online poker don't alter their lives to play a so called video game? the poker boom had a big impact on the development of this site, yes it is a video game but it was endorsed by the WPA and if u can't see how that relates to azb, i can't simplify it much more than that

most people on this forum were aware of pco, that's how i found out about it, azb cared enough about pco to have it's site advertised on it, and if u are wanting pco to be resurrected you'd be hoping that there'd be a resolution to them not paying out monies owed, until this issue is addressed there is no pco because they have screwed the players that made the backbone of the site out of $40,000

i'm not looking for sympathy i'm just looking for any knowledge people have about their dealings with pco their staff or also anyone that has any knowledge on the wpa's involvement or anyone here that's connected to the WPA and any knowledge/advice they have to offer, to try and get some answers/solutions
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
poolcomps

Sounds like crying for sympathy and wanting help from others to me! What does poker have to do with poolcomps? You acknowledged that the Poolcomps deal was small potatoes in your first post too. Why should the AZBilliard members as a group take up your cause?

Johnson said:
so u think that no one here is bothered when the wpa/pco owes money to members of azb? i HIGHLY doubt anyone routinely gets air barreled for $500+, and if they do they don't deserve any sympathy

You are absolutely right about the sympathy they deserve. They are big boys and girls. How much did you say you haven't been paid again?

The response to your thread shows the level of interest here.

I'm "out" over 80K on an air barrel. Get me my eighty thousand and I'll toss you a $4000 or $5000 bone, ten times what Poolcomps owes you, Deal?


Johnson said:
yes most got more out of it than they put into it but it was pco that offered ridiculous payouts

You are going to be really disappointed when and if you ever vote in an election after listening to campaign promises.

Hu
 

Johnson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i'm not crying for sympathy, but a lil help would be nice, u keep insisting that it's only a "video game" and doesn't really matter in the scheme of things, would u call internet poker sites "video games" that don't matter? i never said anything about small potatoes, yes in comparison to the IPT it's not as big of a fiasco but that doesn't lessen the impact of it on the people who played there, i never said i wanted anyone to take up a "cause" my entire intention was to seek out people with inside knowledge of either pco or the WPA, and to maybe get the ball rolling on some sort of fix here

i already posted what i'm owed, u act like u are interested in what's going on here but mainly u just post your point of view from the hip, fyi a good portion of the people owed monies are from 16-20 years old and they would of never thought they'd get air-barreled

i never vote in an election, the 1st day of political science 101 they teach u that your vote doesn't count

thanks for the bumps :)
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