You are all missing the boat!! Ned Morris cues are the best playing cues I've (and my buddies) played with!

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
People who can't distinguish between actual objective analysis and advertising deserve to be mislead.

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educating new billiard fans or players is one way to do free and useful promotions

making them feel like fools can be a bad business practice
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Surely there has to be more photos of different Ned Morris cues to post.
So far, it is hard to form any impression of his cue making with few pics.
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
educating new billiard fans or players is one way to do free and useful promotions

making them feel like fools can be a bad business practice
Surely there has to be more photos of different Ned Morris cues to post.
So far, it is hard to form any impression of his cue making with few pics.
He has a Facebook page that is pretty informative. A lot of pictures. He seems to build very plain cues, nothing too fancy. Lots of jump cues. He does say on his site, no CNC as though it is a badge of honor. I think he equates CNC to mean production junk.
 

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
He has a Facebook page that is pretty informative. A lot of pictures. He seems to build very plain cues, nothing too fancy. Lots of jump cues. He does say on his site, no CNC as though it is a badge of honor. I think he equates CNC to mean production junk.

Hand precision does take time.

I enjoy woodworking.

Growing the cue production niche community cant hurt.

Some people can afford to support cue artists or cue builders or whatever you want to market it as.
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
Hand precision does take time.

I enjoy woodworking.

Growing the cue production niche community cant hurt.

Some people can afford to support cue artists or cue builders or whatever you want to market it as.
CNC does not mean production you'll find CNC in some of the best cue makers shops there are who produce maybe 35 cues a year.

CNC in and of itself beyond what it can do is very interesting. The programming and putting the machines together many craftsman find fascinating.
 

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
CNC does not mean production you'll find CNC in some of the best cue makers shops there are who produce maybe 35 cues a year.

CNC in and of itself beyond what it can do is very interesting. The programming and putting the machines together many craftsman find fascinating.

I can imagine super weathly environmentalists would endorse and promote sustainable makers.

However for the price most pool players pay environmental cues would be more useful for home use and not competition use.

CNC and 3d printing are great technologies. The problem being its not environmental. The environmental community is where the money is going.
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
I can imagine super weathly environmentalists would endorse and promote sustainable makers.

However for the price most pool players pay environmental cues would be more useful for home use and not competition use.

CNC and 3d printing are great technologies. The problem being its not environmental. The environmental community is where the money is going.
Why is CNC not environmental?
 

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
Why is CNC not environmental?

if there are alternatives like hand carved

why use CNC at all?

The environmental problem is what to do with equipment when it is outdated or fails.

Same problem in NYC when they dumped trains in the flushing bay and called it a way to support coral and marine life.

CNC machines at end of life and cost to produce are the main environmental issues.
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
if there are alternatives like hand carved

why use CNC at all?

The environmental problem is what to do with equipment when it is outdated or fails.

Same problem in NYC when they dumped trains in the flushing bay and called it a way to support coral and marine life.

CNC machines at end of life and cost to produce are the main environmental issues.
I have no idea what you are talking about. There is not a thing today that is not produced using CNC. The world is a better place for it. I have no desire to go back 100 years.
 

chenjy9

Well-known member
Like carbon fiber, lathes, weight bolts, etc... CNC mills are just another tool for cue makers to further their craft with. What defines a cue maker is their ability to create a high quality cue with the knowledge and tools they have.
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
if there are alternatives like hand carved

why use CNC at all?

The environmental problem is what to do with equipment when it is outdated or fails.

Same problem in NYC when they dumped trains in the flushing bay and called it a way to support coral and marine life.

CNC machines at end of life and cost to produce are the main environmental issues.
Because time is money. The interesting thing is, you don't only gain time but modern technology produces better more affordable products.

It is the reason cue makers can't make any money. They can only produce so many cues in a given period of time, as well as there is a limit to what a cue can be sold for.

Cue makers are a walking catch-22.
Can't make enough cues on their own and can't get enough money per cue.

I'll add one more sad fact, without help or the assistance of technology a craftsman is at the mercy of time and health. The day comes they can't do their work, they are out of business.

Almost like a sports player, they can be one injury or illness away from the end of their career. But, unlike the sports player who may have made good money, the craftsman likely has little to show for their life.
 
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Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I cannot not say that Southwest cues are good or bad, because they along with most cuemakers have made some cues folks do not like and others that folks love. I played with a guy in Illinois that had a $14,000.00 Barry Szamboti he played fantastic with it, I could not make a ball with it. I hated his cue for playability but he loved it. I have picked up cues hit one ball and thought OMG that thing feels dead, yet the owner loved it. Go figure, we are all different and our perception of cues is different as well. I am willing to bet there are some amazing Ned Morris cues and some not..

My feelings about carbon fiber shafts is similar and I will never buy one until I hit with as many as I can lay my hands on to see how they feel to me. Then and only then I might jump in. Been contemplating that for some time and borrowing lots of cues to try along the way...
 

logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
CNC is simply a generic term for machinery whose movements are computer controlled vs manually controlled by a skilled operator. Computer Mumerical Controlled. In the early days of CNC, manually controlled milling (and other) machines were retrofitted with CNC technology to take advantage of the new developments in CAD design. Its basically servos and drives turning the knobs instead of an operator. Setting it up is still very much a skilled job and operating the machine still involves people...just different skill sets.

As an example, consider a stamped steel automobile fender. And we'll go only go back 45 years to make it simple. Craftsmen and artists would build a clay model of a car body. Designers would manually transfer those shapes to 2 dimensional drawings and add flanges, reinforcements, etc. to the product design drawings. For appearance critical items with complex shapes like body panels including fenders, wood models were built. Sheet wax was at times added to represent metal thickness if there was a need for two sided tools. A metal stamping die has two sides and you can't just ignore thickness. The dies were cut on large duplicating machines that traced the models and transferred the complex shapes to the stamping dies. Skilled machinists completed the dies by manually controlling mills, lathes, drills, etc. to cut the detail of flanges and other detail. Most stamped body panels take multiple steps (progressive dies) to form, trim, pierce and bend the steel. There was, and still is, both science and art involved in forming metal into shape without tears, wrinkles or other defects.

Today we design cars using CAD software, the 3D design exists as digital data.. We review designs using everything from basic viewing of a screen to virtual reality to holograms to 3D printed or NC cut models...sometimes full size, sometimes scaled down, sometimes foam, sometimes wood , sometimes even clay. We cut clay so if we don't like it we can modify it manually, laser scan the changes and feed that data back to CAD designers. When its all done, we have a complete 3D solid digital model of the fender we want to build. Software to analyze (finite elements analysis, FEA) and optimize the strength is possible because we have a digital model. The same is true for simulating, optimizing and analyzing the stamping process as well as everything from the shipping racks to the paint robot programs to the assembly process. For injection molded plastic parts we have the ability to predict, analyze and optimize flow inside the molds before they are built. The list goes on and on.

Getting back to CNC...Because we have a digital part design, the stamping dies can be built directly from the data...no models and wax and epoxy casts of models with wax...just convert the design data to machine programs and allow the machine movements to be controlled by computer.

For someone to be so bent on insisting we move the promotion of pool forward using social media and technology, it's completely inconsistent to talk about CNC the way he does. The environmental topic is complete nonsense. Nobody is making cues without a lathe. A factory that is machining cast engine blocks with a few modern high speed NC machine centers does the work of 100 manually operated 1960's era machines.

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cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
I have a friend who probably owns the most Ned Morris cues, I sold him his first one years ago.
Since then as Ned is building cues off and on, he keeps buying them.

I also like Neds Evolution carbon fiber shaft.
He does a good job with the carbon fiber blanks.

Ned is quite a good cuemaker and besides all the great playing cues out there, he has built some very high end collector type cues.
 

jeremy8000

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've owned two cues by Ned. The first was a sneaky pete I won in a raffle. I loved everything about it except for one thing: I absolutely hated that it played better than my Kikel, which had been my player and the best I'd shot with (for me) to that point. I ended up moving on to one of his nicer (more ornate) cues, which played as perfectly to my tastes, and my Kikel found a new home with one of my teammates (who prefers it to the Morris).

I will say that, up to now, Ned's cues feel more like an extension of my will on the table than any other cue I've used - but that's a very personal thing. What I would suggest is that his cues are absolutely, positively worth trying out, strictly from a performance perspective, as many (not all) may come to the same conclusion. As to quality of workmanship for implementation of design, they're essentially flawless, which is all the more impressive given he doesn't use CNC for points, inlays, etc.

I get where the OP is coming from. There are a lot of cuemakers that haven't captured the largest audiences that make stellar cues. Ned's cues are definitely among the finest in that group.
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've owned two cues by Ned. The first was a sneaky pete I won in a raffle. I loved everything about it except for one thing: I absolutely hated that it played better than my Kikel, which had been my player and the best I'd shot with (for me) to that point. I ended up moving on to one of his nicer (more ornate) cues, which played as perfectly to my tastes, and my Kikel found a new home with one of my teammates (who prefers it to the Morris).

I will say that, up to now, Ned's cues feel more like an extension of my will on the table than any other cue I've used - but that's a very personal thing. What I would suggest is that his cues are absolutely, positively worth trying out, strictly from a performance perspective, as many (not all) may come to the same conclusion. As to quality of workmanship for implementation of design, they're essentially flawless, which is all the more impressive given he doesn't use CNC for points, inlays, etc.

I get where the OP is coming from. There are a lot of cuemakers that haven't captured the largest audiences that make stellar cues. Ned's cues are definitely among the finest in that group.
From what I’ve read, he’s more heralded for producing great cue blanks than pool cues.
But if his cue blanks are really that good, I’m thinking his cues are going to be the same.
 

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
Because time is money. The interesting thing is, you don't only gain time but modern technology produces better more affordable products.

It is the reason cue makers can't make any money. They can only produce so many cues in a given period of time, as well as there is a limit to what a cue can be sold for.

Cue makers are a walking catch-22.
Can't make enough cues on their own and can't get enough money per cue.

I'll add one more sad fact, without help or the assistance of technology a craftsman is at the mercy of time and health. The day comes they can't do their work, they are out of business.

Almost like a sports player, they can be one injury or illness away from the end of their career. But, unlike the sports player who may have made good money, the craftsman likely has little to show for their life.

great post i am not detracting from the values you clearly stated.

Learning to build a cue is a skill like learning to set up a pool table.

Many people have pool tables but how many actually know how to break it down and put it back together.

The direction I am going is future pool players should be all around knowledgeable. A pool player that visits a small town low on resources should be able to share some basic tricks.

Of those tricks should be cue construction and some basic table repairs. This way future generations in third world or low income areas can still enjoy pool without the latest and greatest.

The pool market is large enough to support business. Then there is the pool market that has no money but wants to enjoy pool. i try to visit pool rooms or pool tables in low income areas and they dont have money for anything.

What do you consider charity in the pool world? teaching some kids how to hand craft a cue from recycled materials is not going to stop major manufacturers or high end custom cue makers from making money.
 
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