You are all missing the boat!! Ned Morris cues are the best playing cues I've (and my buddies) played with!

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a friend who probably owns the most Ned Morris cues, I sold him his first one years ago.
Since then as Ned is building cues off and on, he keeps buying them.

I also like Neds Evolution carbon fiber shaft.
He does a good job with the carbon fiber blanks.

Ned is quite a good cuemaker and besides all the great playing cues out there, he has built some very high end collector type cues.
And ned can play pool pretty well too, dammit.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
if there are alternatives like hand carved

why use CNC at all?

The environmental problem is what to do with equipment when it is outdated or fails.

Same problem in NYC when they dumped trains in the flushing bay and called it a way to support coral and marine life.

CNC machines at end of life and cost to produce are the main environmental issues.
You're delusional. Please go away.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
CNC is simply a generic term for machinery whose movements are computer controlled vs manually controlled by a skilled operator. Computer Mumerical Controlled. In the early days of CNC, manually controlled milling (and other) machines were retrofitted with CNC technology to take advantage of the new developments in CAD design. Its basically servos and drives turning the knobs instead of an operator. Setting it up is still very much a skilled job and operating the machine still involves people...just different skill sets.

As an example, consider a stamped steel automobile fender. And we'll go only go back 45 years to make it simple. Craftsmen and artists would build a clay model of a car body. Designers would manually transfer those shapes to 2 dimensional drawings and add flanges, reinforcements, etc. to the product design drawings. For appearance critical items with complex shapes like body panels including fenders, wood models were built. Sheet wax was at times added to represent metal thickness if there was a need for two sided tools. A metal stamping die has two sides and you can't just ignore thickness. The dies were cut on large duplicating machines that traced the models and transferred the complex shapes to the stamping dies. Skilled machinists completed the dies by manually controlling mills, lathes, drills, etc. to cut the detail of flanges and other detail. Most stamped body panels take multiple steps (progressive dies) to form, trim, pierce and bend the steel. There was, and still is, both science and art involved in forming metal into shape without tears, wrinkles or other defects.

Today we design cars using CAD software, the 3D design exists as digital data.. We review designs using everything from basic viewing of a screen to virtual reality to holograms to 3D printed or NC cut models...sometimes full size, sometimes scaled down, sometimes foam, sometimes wood , sometimes even clay. We cut clay so if we don't like it we can modify it manually, laser scan the changes and feed that data back to CAD designers. When its all done, we have a complete 3D solid digital model of the fender we want to build. Software to analyze (finite elements analysis, FEA) and optimize the strength is possible because we have a digital model. The same is true for simulating, optimizing and analyzing the stamping process as well as everything from the shipping racks to the paint robot programs to the assembly process. For injection molded plastic parts we have the ability to predict, analyze and optimize flow inside the molds before they are built. The list goes on and on.

Getting back to CNC...Because we have a digital part design, the stamping dies can be built directly from the data...no models and wax and epoxy casts of models with wax...just convert the design data to machine programs and allow the machine movements to be controlled by computer.

For someone to be so bent on insisting we move the promotion of pool forward using social media and technology, it's completely inconsistent to talk about CNC the way he does. The environmental topic is complete nonsense. Nobody is making cues without a lathe. A factory that is machining cast engine blocks with a few modern high speed NC machine centers does the work of 100 manually operated 1960's era machines.

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I feel like I just took a short course in manufacturing 101. I wish I understood it all but I don't. I do know that Logical is a helluva lot smarter than me, and I'm kind of jealous. I get very humble around people like him. I'm lucky I know how to fix a broken toilet or a leaky faucet, and can do minor electrical work. I've learned a little bit about a lot of things but not a lot about anything. I'm a high IQ dummy! :)
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I've owned two cues by Ned. The first was a sneaky pete I won in a raffle. I loved everything about it except for one thing: I absolutely hated that it played better than my Kikel, which had been my player and the best I'd shot with (for me) to that point. I ended up moving on to one of his nicer (more ornate) cues, which played as perfectly to my tastes, and my Kikel found a new home with one of my teammates (who prefers it to the Morris).

I will say that, up to now, Ned's cues feel more like an extension of my will on the table than any other cue I've used - but that's a very personal thing. What I would suggest is that his cues are absolutely, positively worth trying out, strictly from a performance perspective, as many (not all) may come to the same conclusion. As to quality of workmanship for implementation of design, they're essentially flawless, which is all the more impressive given he doesn't use CNC for points, inlays, etc.

I get where the OP is coming from. There are a lot of cuemakers that haven't captured the largest audiences that make stellar cues. Ned's cues are definitely among the finest in that group.
Ned made a cue for me over twenty years ago and I still have it. There aren't many cues I've held onto that long. It's not a fancy cue and has few inlays, but it sure feels good in my hands and I have no intention of selling it.

On another note, there are some excellent comments about finding a quality cue on this thread. We are all wired differently and what feels good to me may not feel the same for you, and vice-versa. And even with our favored cuemakers, all their cues will not feel the same or equally as good. I revere Pete Tascarella and his cue making ability. I had one of his cues years ago that was probably one of the two or three best feeling cues I ever played pool with. Later on I got a new one that, although it played good, did not have that magic feel in my hands. Remember, they are made of wood and no two cues will ever be identical. That is why when someone inquiries of me what cue would I recommend, I tell them to buy a cue they can hit balls with first. I've bought more cues on sight (and on-site) then I can possibly remember, because it was there, it was for sale and I liked it! I guess I'm just a simple minded guy. :rolleyes:
 

chenjy9

Well-known member
I had messaged him on Facebook a couple of weeks ago and was asked to reach back in a couple of months. I wonder if that means I missed the boat already? :p:LOL:
 

gerryf

Well-known member
Both of my Jackpots play better than any SW I have tried.
On one of the matches on Youtube, the commentator mentioned that the Ko brothers, and almost all the players from Taiwan use SW cues. There was no explanation given as to why? I don't know if that's still true or not, but i wondered what would have driven that.
 

chenjy9

Well-known member
On one of the matches on Youtube, the commentator mentioned that the Ko brothers, and almost all the players from Taiwan use SW cues. There was no explanation given as to why? I don't know if that's still true or not, but i wondered what would have driven that.
My guess is status symbol. Asians are all about that status symbol life.
 

logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
I feel like I just took a short course in manufacturing 101. I wish I understood it all but I don't. I do know that Logical is a helluva lot smarter than me, and I'm kind of jealous. I get very humble around people like him. I'm lucky I know how to fix a broken toilet or a leaky faucet, and can do minor electrical work. I've learned a little bit about a lot of things but not a lot about anything. I'm a high IQ dummy! :)
Not smarter I'm sure, but starting 40 years ago sweeping up around machinery to various product engineering, design, program management, prototype and testing roles, to my current role as an engineering director for a large global company, it's hard not to pick up a little knowledge.

I guess Justnum is too busy promoting whittling as a cue manufacturing process to bother understanding what he's babbling about.
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chenjy9

Well-known member
And Americans aren't?

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As an Asian American, I can honestly tell you that it's not even close. There is a reason why popular devices in gold sell the most by a long shot in Asian countries. I could tell you so many other stories, but that would probably get me fired. LOL
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
if there are alternatives like hand carved

why use CNC at all?

The environmental problem is what to do with equipment when it is outdated or fails.

Same problem in NYC when they dumped trains in the flushing bay and called it a way to support coral and marine life.

CNC machines at end of life and cost to produce are the main environmental issues.
Its mainly made from steel which can be recycled. Scrap steel used for recycling is a huge business.
 

logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
Amazing workmanship. Zero CNC machine. Everything he does is by hand and BY himself. I'm able to go talk to him just as I did with Jerry Franklin in SW cues in the 1980's. I've owned both... BUT Ned's cues are much better workmanship and very playable cues. I suppose you've got to play with both to realize it. Just ask anyone that owns his cues and ask them. I expect crap from pool players that KNOW, but have you played with both? Hell NO. But I have. Do NOT mean to cause enemies but it's the truth.
Maybe we should start a GoFundMe and get him a nice CNC.

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ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ned Morris may make the best cue...but is it okay if I just keep playing with my Keith Josey? I got tired of spending money in search of a holy grail of cues. Finally decided to just buy a nice cue and spend my money on table time...
I just ordered a Keith Josey merry widow. I've never heard anyone say a bad word about him or his work. Looking forward to getting mine in about 9 months.
 

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
I just ordered a Keith Josey merry widow. I've never heard anyone say a bad word about him or his work. Looking forward to getting mine in about 9 months.
I'm sure you'll like it...despite it not being a Ned Morris...;)
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
CNC is simply a generic term for machinery whose movements are computer controlled vs manually controlled by a skilled operator. Computer Mumerical Controlled. In the early days of CNC, manually controlled milling (and other) machines were retrofitted with CNC technology to take advantage of the new developments in CAD design. Its basically servos and drives turning the knobs instead of an operator. Setting it up is still very much a skilled job and operating the machine still involves people...just different skill sets.

As an example, consider a stamped steel automobile fender. And we'll go only go back 45 years to make it simple. Craftsmen and artists would build a clay model of a car body. Designers would manually transfer those shapes to 2 dimensional drawings and add flanges, reinforcements, etc. to the product design drawings. For appearance critical items with complex shapes like body panels including fenders, wood models were built. Sheet wax was at times added to represent metal thickness if there was a need for two sided tools. A metal stamping die has two sides and you can't just ignore thickness. The dies were cut on large duplicating machines that traced the models and transferred the complex shapes to the stamping dies. Skilled machinists completed the dies by manually controlling mills, lathes, drills, etc. to cut the detail of flanges and other detail. Most stamped body panels take multiple steps (progressive dies) to form, trim, pierce and bend the steel. There was, and still is, both science and art involved in forming metal into shape without tears, wrinkles or other defects.

Today we design cars using CAD software, the 3D design exists as digital data.. We review designs using everything from basic viewing of a screen to virtual reality to holograms to 3D printed or NC cut models...sometimes full size, sometimes scaled down, sometimes foam, sometimes wood , sometimes even clay. We cut clay so if we don't like it we can modify it manually, laser scan the changes and feed that data back to CAD designers. When its all done, we have a complete 3D solid digital model of the fender we want to build. Software to analyze (finite elements analysis, FEA) and optimize the strength is possible because we have a digital model. The same is true for simulating, optimizing and analyzing the stamping process as well as everything from the shipping racks to the paint robot programs to the assembly process. For injection molded plastic parts we have the ability to predict, analyze and optimize flow inside the molds before they are built. The list goes on and on.

Getting back to CNC...Because we have a digital part design, the stamping dies can be built directly from the data...no models and wax and epoxy casts of models with wax...just convert the design data to machine programs and allow the machine movements to be controlled by computer.

For someone to be so bent on insisting we move the promotion of pool forward using social media and technology, it's completely inconsistent to talk about CNC the way he does. The environmental topic is complete nonsense. Nobody is making cues without a lathe. A factory that is machining cast engine blocks with a few modern high speed NC machine centers does the work of 100 manually operated 1960's era machines.

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I don't think anybody would say that CNC operators aren't skilled.

It's not the point, either. If I wanted a cue churned out by a computer controlled machine, I'd just buy a production cue. I see no reason to pay a rather extreme premium if the cue is produced more or less the same way by an individual with smaller machines. Ok, you get someone selecting materials to MAYBE a higher standard (though Mezz for instance is doing this too), and maybe you can get a unique design (but maybe not, since the cues seem to be rather standardized and very few venture outside the norm).

I'd say buying custom, I'm paying for the cue being handmade and one of a kind or one of extremely few. The name of the guy programming a machine makes no difference to me. I'm rather more interested in the cue being handmade. That, to me, is what makes it special. If I didn't care for that at all, I could just as well order custom from a production/custom maker and skip the wait almost entirely, getting the cue within months or perhaps a year at most. It would still be somewhat unique.
 
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