You-tube ripping us off must read

[JoeyM]

Well DUH! We're going to make a little money yeah, because we've worked hard to privatize live billiard productions, Absolutely There's nothing ETHICALLY wrong with that. But would you agree that what is currently happening which is ZERO compensation for anyone? I mean, be realistic buddy. Wow.[/QUOTn'tE]

I don't care if you try and make a buck. Advertising that you are doing it for the players is funny though. All of your posts have been very transparent that you are trying to make a buck. Just because the players may get a couple bucks from you doesn't change the fact that this whole thread is you advertising your business. Maybe you should pay this site a vendor fee since you are advertising so much. Even listed the sites involved trying to drive traffic to them.

Just be straight up and say that you have started a business and what you will offer. No need to claim people hate pool/pool players and how evil youtube is because they are making money that you want instead of them.

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

We don't need the legalities and legitimacy of what we need to move forward with a privatized billiard productions. We are creating a vehicle in the exact pretext of YouTube except for billiards only. Your post, yet informative, falls short of the point. Be positive, and not negative. Do you have any positive pre-requisites regarding this issue is you seem very well educated of derogatory sentiments.

You don't need the legalities? You, sir, are daft.

I'm not being positive nor negative, I'm being realistic.

As for pre-requisites...first protect your media. Second, actively protect your media by reporting misuse of your media. Third, teach other companies to protect their media. Fourth, rake in those millions.

Here's the truth: Youtube could take every pool related video and every fight scene using a pool cue off of their channel and it wouldn't affect their daily views in the slightest.

Stop blaming Youtube and blame the lazy ignorant people who don't protect themselves.

 

[craZyErica]

Your title is stupid. Youtube is not ripping anyone off by having the matches posted.

Just as in most pool related endeavors, the players are much too ignorant of their rights to protect themselves.

Anyone who signs up for a tourney that has broadcast coverage should be made to sign a consent form allowing the use of their image. If they don't sign...they aren't allowed to play.

Here's where it gets tricky...if the player appears on a stream knowingly, he has arguably given consent to the use of his image. Let me repeat that: He has arguably GIVEN the rights to use his image.

I'm sure any of the big name pool players could try to get all of those millions their performances are making for youtube, but youtube simply takes the video down whenever there is any argument.

Are you dumb enough to really think that if there was real money to be made from the distribution of these videos that the people who own the rights to the videos would let them stay on youtube?

Long story short is that the players don't own the rights to the matches. If the players want to boycott the tourneys that are being recorded or streamed until they are paid for the use of their image/performance, they'll simply be killing their meager existence.

Go take a couple of university level courses. Or better yet, look up some videos of these sorts of things for free. I suggest using Youtube...and paying them for what you learn.

for the record the title was meant to grab you , which worked by thte way.... i dont disagree with EVERYTHING you are saying....
but i do know that the people who make videos that are instructional post their OWN videos monetize them and get paid.
never once said to boycott the tournaments but if a person is making money off the content the compensation should be distributed accordingly
you can argue if thats what you want to do im speaking my opinion
if you have a different opinion thats your right!
but lets say danny smith plays chip compton and it is ppv should they not be compensated????

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

for the record the title was meant to grab you , which worked by thte way.... i dont disagree with EVERYTHING you are saying....
but i do know that the people who make videos that are instructional post their OWN videos monetize them and get paid.
never once said to boycott the tournaments but if a person is making money off the content the compensation should be distributed accordingly
you can argue if thats what you want to do im speaking my opinion
if you have a different opinion thats your right!
but lets say danny smith plays chip compton and it is ppv should they not be compensated????

Nope. Danny Smith and Chip Compton should not be compensated. They should negotiate with the owners of the media...the ones who made the production possible if they wish to be compensated. They should do this before they are recorded. Afterward, it's too late.

That is the way it works in this free-market society.

 

[Farhan]

Youtube is where I've grown my love as a spectator of this sport. Along with free streams.

Call me cheap but I'm not paying to watch pool on my computer or television. If it comes to that, I'll just find some other way to spend that time.

 

[bdorman]

A couple of thoughts:

1) Youtube has an ad-revenue sharing program. They bug me all the time to join it...but at my viewership levels I'd make about 75 cents per year (non-pool; music and fishing related). It's available to just about anyone posting videos. (BTW, 2015 Mosconi Cup matches have FEWER views than my video about powder-painting fishing jig heads).

2) Do you really think Youtube would care if no one ever posted another pool video? All the pool match "views" probably don't equal one popular music video or technology review video. "you gonna take your ball and go home? Go."

3) Youtube videos are good for converting casual players into more serious players who are willing to spend the time (table time money) and money (new cues, cases, etc) to improve.

In a day and age when you can see just about anything you want on free video, it's suicidal to boycott the market. It wouldn't do anything but hurt pool.

 

[Goldy]

Nope. Danny Smith and Chip Compton should not be compensated. They should negotiate with the owners of the media...the ones who made the production possible if they wish to be compensated. They should do this before they are recorded. Afterward, it's too late.

That is the way it works in this free-market society.

Yup. And there is now a vehicle in place, such as SESAC, BMI, for music artists, there is one for pool players.

 

[Goldy]

Youtube is where I've grown my love as a spectator of this sport. Along with free streams.

Call me cheap but I'm not paying to watch pool on my computer or television. If it comes to that, I'll just find some other way to spend that time.

The point of this message. If we had the advertising revenue from billiard videos, then as a private industry not dependent on free streaming vehicles, then in turn the "BilliardsTube" would be self sustaining in the same manner.

With a "BilliardsTube" then more attention to the industry could ensue, and first topic of action would be compensation in the right light that helps propel the sport.

Currently 85% of that revenue goes into an entity that has no interest in billiards, not to mention ZERO ever goes into our industry.

 

[craZyErica]

Nope. Danny Smith and Chip Compton should not be compensated. They should negotiate with the owners of the media...the ones who made the production possible if they wish to be compensated. They should do this before they are recorded. Afterward, it's too late.

That is the way it works in this free-market society.

duh thats my point exactly i am creating awareness to the players to cover their asses thank you you made my point for me ! they should make the agreement before hand thats what im trying to say!!!

 

[Scott Lee]

Who is this "we" you're talking about? WE are not in any way responsible for putting money in poolplayers pockets, whether they are pros or not. If you want to make money at pool, get off your ass and go make some. This is a ridiculous thread.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

We're supposed to be building up the players of the sport and getting them compensation for their art/talent.

 

[Goldy]

A couple of thoughts:

1) Youtube has an ad-revenue sharing program. They bug me all the time to join it...but at my viewership levels I'd make about 75 cents per year (non-pool; music and fishing related). It's available to just about anyone posting videos. (BTW, 2015 Mosconi Cup matches have FEWER views than my video about powder-painting fishing jig heads).

This ever solidifies the issue with using a free streaming vehicle for exposure. The point and case of the message posted to start this thread was to bring awareness that there is plent of Billiard Videos on YouTube to sustain the market for the next 100 years without adding are more to it. So, Let that be.... Moving forward however, is the course of action stated in the original message.

2) Do you really think Youtube would care if no one ever posted another pool video? All the pool match "views" probably don't equal one popular music video or technology review video. "you gonna take your ball and go home? Go."

I think you missed the point here slightly. There is no intention of any boycott. The message was clear on how we move forward to generate the same advertising revenue. The message was to bring awareness of what is happening, and how much potential revenue our industry looses because of the free radical business model. Which hurts pool more, that many realize.

3) Youtube videos are good for converting casual players into more serious players who are willing to spend the time (table time money) and money (new cues, cases, etc) to improve.

There is nothing that can't be achieved on a private site that YouTube provides. Search engines do 50% of the work.

In a day and age when you can see just about anything you want on free video, it's suicidal to boycott the market. It wouldn't do anything but hurt pool.

That is the misconception. Free Don't Pay So Good. So could this be a cause for concern? And what are we doing about it as an industry today to have at least 10% of the market share? And if not 50% in the next 10 years? Why are we not exploring this opportunity? But ALAS, this has been explored, and in the last 5 years, a giant leap. The next step is very close.

 

[ideologist]

Just have the players concerned go ahead and monetize their YouTube accounts and load their own videos. They'll get paid per view.

Unfortunately, they don't care to do that most of the time.

 

[Goldy]

Who is this "we" you're talking about? WE are not in any way responsible for putting money in poolplayers pockets, whether they are pros or not. If you want to make money at pool, get off your ass and go make some. This is a ridiculous thread.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

No, but "WE" are responsible for free videos that reap a half a million in advertising. Somewhat inadvertently because of the "free streaming radicalization and entitlement movement in America Today".

The point of the matter that you've missed, and have taken to a negative light for whatever reason, is that billiards needs a private entity working for itself, instead of a public entity trading the value of the content into advertising revenue that we see nothing of.

 

[Goldy]

Just have the players concerned go ahead and monetize their YouTube accounts and load their own videos. They'll get paid per view.

Unfortunately, they don't care to do that most of the time.

It's not that they Don't Care. They busy doing what the love to do, and not so much taking the time to buy thousands in video equipment and DIY.. Even though that would be sweet. I a great solution is to have an entity in place that players and industry in mind, to monetize and divert advertising revenue for itself, instead of throwing it away. It's like pool players and the industry are paying RENT, and not giving into something they OWN as a Whole.

 

[Mikey Town]

Yup. And there is now a vehicle in place, such as SESAC, BMI, for music artists, there is one for pool players.

What "vehicle" are you speaking of?

The players don't need anything other than to go up to the media producer (be it Big Truck, AccuStats, POV Pool, TV Mike, etc...) and ask to be compensated.

"Hey (fill in production company here), we have a $20,000 match that we are setting up a couple months from now. We'd be happy to have you stream it, and make it available on YouTube later, if we are provided with compensation (20% of the PPV sales, $1,000 for each player, or any other terms that they wish to negotiate). If you'd be interested, we'd love to talk. If not, we understand and will call other production companies to see if they are interested in the entertainment we are ready to provide."

As a side note, your constant demands for "positive feedback only" in a thread titled "YOU-TUBE RIPPING US OFF" is pretty funny.

The first step toward being paid for a service that is currently being performed for free is to ask the question.

 

[craZyErica]

What "vehicle" are you speaking of?

The players don't need anything other than to go up to the media producer (be it Big Truck, AccuStats, POV Pool, TV Mike, etc...) and ask to be compensated.

"Hey (fill in production company here), we have a $20,000 match that we are setting up a couple months from now. We'd be happy to have you stream it, and make it available on YouTube later, if we are provided with compensation (20% of the PPV sales, $1,000 for each player, or any other terms that they wish to negotiate). If you'd be interested, we'd love to talk. If not, we understand and will call other production companies to see if they are interested in the entertainment we are ready to provide."

As a side note, your constant demands for "positive feedback only" in a thread titled "YOU-TUBE RIPPING US OFF" is pretty funny.

The first step toward being paid for a service that is currently being performed for free is to ask the question.

i agree (for the most part)

 

[Goldy]

What "vehicle" are you speaking of?

The players don't need anything other than to go up to the media producer (be it Big Truck, AccuStats, POV Pool, TV Mike, etc...) and ask to be compensated.

"Hey (fill in production company here), we have a $20,000 match that we are setting up a couple months from now. We'd be happy to have you stream it, and make it available on YouTube later, if we are provided with compensation (20% of the PPV sales, $1,000 for each player, or any other terms that they wish to negotiate). If you'd be interested, we'd love to talk. If not, we understand and will call other production companies to see if they are interested in the entertainment we are ready to provide."

Exactly. But you missed a huge hurdle. And not everyone does this. Another point you missed, if a private entity had amassed the amount of videos such as YouTube, then there would never have to be a PPV, or question if players and the industry is being compensated, because it would come out of the $500,000.00 we don't see currently,. as all the videos are FREE on YouTube.

As a side note, your constant demands for "positive feedback only" in a thread titled "YOU-TUBE RIPPING US OFF" is pretty funny.

The first step toward being paid for a service that is currently being performed for free is to ask the question.

I find it funny that most news headlines in the news today does the exact same thing. It's called getting you engaged and getting your attention. Obviously, we now have your attention.

Thanks Mikey for you post!

 

[bdorman]

If we had the advertising revenue from billiard videos, then as a private industry not dependent on free streaming vehicles, then in turn the "BilliardsTube" would be self sustaining in the same manner.

There is NO advertising revenue from billiards videos. Do you see any billiards industry companies advertising on youtube.com? Are you going to sell advertising to Gieco Insurance? You could add up all the pool match views on youtube and it wouldn't generate more than $500.

(BTW, music royalty companies like BMI and ASCAP are good for the Top 40 artists...everyone else gets screwed)

This is a ridiculous thread.

Of course it is...but it's fun. :grin:

 

[lost]

Sounds like somebody wants to be the Twitch of pool? Good luck with that considering the huge difference in audience size of gamers vs pool watchers.
On any given night there are likely 1,000s of game streams going with varying audience sizes some quite large. Even with only a few pool streams going the audiences are really tiny in comparison. Why is that do you suppose? Lack of demand would be the answer.
I believe twitch streamers make money by donations while they are playing...some quite a bit. most very little to none. The model however simply won't translate to pool for tons of reasons. The only thing they have in common is it's done indoors in a room.
Amazon owns Twitch I believe and it's worth billions...but if your stream isn't popular you get zero except the fun of being on the internet

 

[Banks]

No, but "WE" are responsible for free videos that reap a half a million in advertising. Somewhat inadvertently because of the "free streaming radicalization and entitlement movement in America Today".

Just think of the kittens that are taken advantage of. The poor kittens! :sad:

This is why pool can't have nice things.

Anybody know a nice Favorite Tip thread?