So I Joined the APA.. BIG Mistake

[cuesblues]

UPDATE:

The LO of the San Gabriel Valley APA gave Tom Tao the option to either take a 44-51 loss or a 44-0 win after the LO found out that both Tom and I signed our scoresheets 44-51. Where is the logic in that? Why in the hell would a LO allow him to make that decision? Of COURSE he's gonna take a 44-0 win! Needless to say, I'll be appealing this whole ruling to the corporate level of APA. This thing went from an ordeal to a fiasco to a circus.

Let us know when you are going to play this team again, I think it should be streamed
Every game call a time out just for a rules clarification, and drag the match out until 4:00 am.
When your 2's & 3's are playing use both time outs every game, one for a rules clarification, and one just to **** with the other team.
Maybe you won't have to call a time out for rules clarification, and can use your time outs to drag the match out until noon the next day.
In other words, next time I should be involved, let me handle this><:smile:

 

[fast&loose designs]

Let us know when you are going to play this team again, I think it should be streamed
Every game call a time out just for a rules clarification, and drag the match out until 4:00 am.
When your 2's & 3's are playing use both time outs every game, one for a rules clarification, and one just to **** with the other team.
Maybe you won't have to call a time out for rules clarification, and can use your time outs to drag the match out until noon the next day.
In other words, next time I should be involved, let me handle this><:smile:

Haha that's a great idea. Too bad we don't play them again this season, and I won't be back next season.

 

[Celophanewrap]

UPDATE:

The LO of the San Gabriel Valley APA gave Tom Tao the option to either take a 44-51 loss or a 44-0 win after the LO found out that both Tom and I signed our scoresheets 44-51. Where is the logic in that? Why in the hell would a LO allow him to make that decision? Of COURSE he's gonna take a 44-0 win! Needless to say, I'll be appealing this whole ruling to the corporate level of APA. This thing went from an ordeal to a fiasco to a circus.

Gutless turd over there in San Gabriel Valley, eh? I think taking this to the folks in St. Louis, along with the SIGNED SCORE SHEETS AND THE PORTION OF THE TEAM MANUAL THAT SAYS, "once both score sheets are signed..." is 100% absolutely the correct thing to do, and kind of your last option. I also, realistically, think it will make zero difference. See if the gutless turd (the LO) will give you a refund since it's as if your matches didnt count and your team wasn't there. You guys really do it strange in the west.

Edit: But I see you won't be returning, that's too bad. I think you should come back, at least for this match (what the hell?!, you're paid through the end of the year) and your goal should be at least 5 BIH per game regardless of whether or not you can run out, and when you get BIH and your on the 8, play 3 or 4 more safties, just never let 'em forget, what goes around....

 

[Icon of Sin]

Haha that's a great idea. Too bad we don't play them again this season, and I won't be back next season.

If you're not coming back to the APA then what is the point of going through all the work of appealing it all the way up the corporate ladder?

You ****ed up by accident... the other team called you on it. It's a rule the APA made and they are gonna stick to it.

 

[fast&loose designs]

If you're not coming back to the APA then what is the point of going through all the work of appealing it all the way up the corporate ladder?

You ****ed up and didnt follow the rules and they called you on it... Be mad at yourself dude.

You should really read more.

I'm finishing off the season. I'm not only doing it because I deserve the points after the league effed up (oh, but I guess only I should be penalized when I eff up right?), but because my team deserves the points after we have been fighting and winning. Also, the APA should be held accountable for their mistakes. If I don't speak up, who will? This kind of garbage happens everyday in the APA and no one speaks out. Time for a change. It does not matter at all if I don't return.

 

[Icon of Sin]

You should really read more.

I'm finishing off the season. I'm not only doing it because I deserve the points after the league effed up (oh, but I guess only I should be penalized when I eff up right?), but because my team deserves the points after we have been fighting and winning. Also, the APA should be held accountable for their mistakes. If I don't speak up, who will? This kind of garbage happens everyday in the APA and no one speaks out. Time for a change. It does not matter at all if I don't return.

I edited my original post because of sounding like an asshole which you quoted. Im in a shitty mood over here and it came out in that post. I apologize for that.

To continue:

Many have fought the APA and lost. They have these rules in place to benefit the majority, not the minority. If you fight and win and are allowed to keep the points then they would have to do it for someone else later when they cite your case. Regardless if you are staying or quitting, one person going up against the APA in regards to their rules is futile.

And unfotunately, yes... when you **** up you should be penalized for it, accident or not. The APA league was originally designed to be a fun night out, but teams like those you were playing are wht ruins that night. They try to be super competitive and suck the fun out if it for opposing teams and their alike.

That rule is their so teams cant stack players... that rule is bent in every single division in multiple instances with obviously underrated players. They have the 4 that plays like a 7 or the 3 that plays like a 6. This is how they bend and get around this rule.

The APA is nothing but a organization that benefits those who cheat without getting caught and "within the rules".

Edit to add: In regards to reading more, this is a 10 page thread about league drama... I'll pass.

 

[Banks]

You should really read more.

Umm.. you didn't read the rulebook.

I'm finishing off the season. I'm not only doing it because I deserve the points after the league effed up (oh, but I guess only I should be penalized when I eff up right?), but because my team deserves the points after we have been fighting and winning. Also, the APA should be held accountable for their mistakes. If I don't speak up, who will? This kind of garbage happens everyday in the APA and no one speaks out. Time for a change. It does not matter at all if I don't return.

The league didn't mess up. If you were fighting and losing, you wouldn't have deserved the points? This kind of garbage.. first time I think I've seen somebody go on about it. Most people just acknowledge they screwed up and leave it at that. Does it matter who signed what if the information is incorrect? Nope. Play NAPA or TAP. I don't play either of those. :thumbup:

 

[fast&loose designs]

Umm.. you didn't read the rulebook.



The league didn't mess up. If you were fighting and losing, you wouldn't have deserved the points? This kind of garbage.. first time I think I've seen somebody go on about it. Most people just acknowledge they screwed up and leave it at that. Does it matter who signed what if the information is incorrect? Nope. Play NAPA or TAP. I don't play either of those. :thumbup:

I read the rulebook. Didn't memorize the rulebook. I bet you did, though, right?

The league DID mess up. They made a call, saying SCORE IS 51-44, then CHANGED it later. THEN didn't acknowledge or hold onto their rule that scoresheets signed and submitted have real weight. Apparently only I have to follow rules, not them.

I'm not most people - I stand up for what I think is right and I do whatever I can to make it right - not only for me and my team, but for future players and teams. I'm not a sheep, which is what you'd have me be. Stand up for yourself. Even if I don't get my points back, the San Gabriel Valley APA, its LO and LRs will NEVER make these mistakes again, and no captain will forget to stay under 23. So yes, my efforts are worth something. Just not to you, since you seem to worship the APA and its rulebook bible.

 

[Banks]

I read the rulebook. Didn't memorize the rulebook. I bet you did, though, right?

The league DID mess up. They made a call, saying SCORE IS 51-44, then CHANGED it later. THEN didn't acknowledge or hold onto their rule that scoresheets signed and submitted have real weight. Apparently only I have to follow rules, not them.

I'm not most people - I stand up for what I think is right and I do whatever I can to make it right - not only for me and my team, but for future players and teams. I'm not a sheep, which is what you'd have me be. Stand up for yourself. Even if I don't get my points back, the San Gabriel Valley APA, its LO and LRs will NEVER make these mistakes again, and no captain will forget to stay under 23. So yes, my efforts are worth something. Just not to you, since you seem to worship the APA and its rulebook bible.

Memorize it? Only the important parts.. like not breaking the 23 rule because you'll get hosed.

I'm not trying to "have you be" anything. I just think you're making too much out of this.

LOL at your King Kong attitude with a Mickey Mouse game. Maybe this thread got it all wrong and your team was the one with the chip on its shoulder to begin with, insulting people that point out that you're wrong and such.

 

[fast&loose designs]

Memorize it? Only the important parts.. like not breaking the 23 rule because you'll get hosed.

I'm not trying to "have you be" anything. I just think you're making too much out of this.

LOL at your King Kong attitude with a Mickey Mouse game. Maybe this thread got it all wrong and your team was the one with the chip on its shoulder to begin with, insulting people that point out that you're wrong and such.

You're absolutely right. Well judged, sir.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

I read the rulebook. Didn't memorize the rulebook. I bet you did, though, right?

The league DID mess up. They made a call, saying SCORE IS 51-44, then CHANGED it later. THEN didn't acknowledge or hold onto their rule that scoresheets signed and submitted have real weight. Apparently only I have to follow rules, not them.

I'm not most people - I stand up for what I think is right and I do whatever I can to make it right - not only for me and my team, but for future players and teams. I'm not a sheep, which is what you'd have me be. Stand up for yourself. Even if I don't get my points back, the San Gabriel Valley APA, its LO and LRs will NEVER make these mistakes again, and no captain will forget to stay under 23. So yes, my efforts are worth something. Just not to you, since you seem to worship the APA and its rulebook bible.

Despite the bad call by the LO the rule book clearly says that the team that goes over 23 loses all team match points. APA is going to rule against you because you were the one that went over.

This whole thing is stupid. You made a mistake. You were then told that you would keep some points. It was later known that was incorrect and the proper ruling was made (which was you get zero points). Whatever the case you still are not entitled to the points.

Lesson learned. Next time make sure you are aware of the rules. More importantly, own up to your mistakes.

 

[ElLeon]

I read the rulebook. Didn't memorize the rulebook. I bet you did, though, right?

The league DID mess up. They made a call, saying SCORE IS 51-44, then CHANGED it later. THEN didn't acknowledge or hold onto their rule that scoresheets signed and submitted have real weight. Apparently only I have to follow rules, not them.

I'm not most people - I stand up for what I think is right and I do whatever I can to make it right - not only for me and my team, but for future players and teams. I'm not a sheep, which is what you'd have me be. Stand up for yourself. Even if I don't get my points back, the San Gabriel Valley APA, its LO and LRs will NEVER make these mistakes again, and no captain will forget to stay under 23. So yes, my efforts are worth something. Just not to you, since you seem to worship the APA and its rulebook bible.

I'll say this again, APA should be a more friendly league and as a fellow team captain and moral person, I would have alerted you to the mathematical mistake once you called for the wrong person and let you re-throw.

Victory/defeat is earned at the table, not behind the scoresheet. Nobody who plays APA is a pro (by definition) so they shouldn't act like it or treat others as if their family's dinner is on the line.

Sure, you made a mistake. It's a friggen bar league. I am so grateful that we don't have any captains in our division like the team you played against. Our division is small, but we enjoy playing against eachother and our division has sent representatives to Vegas four times in the past four years (with my team going in 2010 and 2011), so we aren't a push-over division.

 

[fast&loose designs]

Despite the bad call by the LO the rule book clearly says that the team that goes over 23 loses all team match points. APA is going to rule against you because you were the one that went over.

This whole thing is stupid. You made a mistake. You were then told that you would keep some points. It was later known that was incorrect and the proper ruling was made (which was you get zero points). Whatever the case you still are not entitled to the points.

Lesson learned. Next time make sure you are aware of the rules. More importantly, own up to your mistakes.

You keep forgetting that I HAVE owned up to the mistakes. If a ref came over to watch a hit, ruled it was GOOD, then a few days later you find out he changed his mind because he didn't understand how to make a proper call, you would just stay quiet and let it happen to someone else later?

Those that are against my efforts to right what is wrong are only pointing out me going over 23. Over and over. You're not addressing the entire issue. Look at the situation as a WHOLE. Yes I made a mistake, and apologized to my team. But that's not where this ends.

 

[Celophanewrap]

You should really read more.

I'm finishing off the season. I'm not only doing it because I deserve the points after the league effed up (oh, but I guess only I should be penalized when I eff up right?), but because my team deserves the points after we have been fighting and winning. Also, the APA should be held accountable for their mistakes. If I don't speak up, who will? This kind of garbage happens everyday in the APA and no one speaks out. Time for a change. It does not matter at all if I don't return.

Here's the deal with that, everybody speaks up - no one cares. Tom EFFING Tao (from Tacoma) also spoke up, successfully it seems.
Time for a change, - absolutely
Likelyhood of a change, - about zero
I think the trick is trying to start a dialouge with the APA before crap like this happens so possibly some preventative measures have been put into place so the Sinister Tom Taos of the APA can't whine their way to a place in the NTC.
In truth though, the APA has little use for our advice or opinions, they do things a certain way and it works for them, if we don't like it we can leave.
It is what it is, instead of an anurism you might as well have some fun with it, when it's over you can get back to the BCA and the common interpretion of "real pool".

I think as a league player one of the most difficult things to do is to come to an understanding with the APA. Me? I'm proud to say I have that understanding. The APA has limits and I recognize those and it doesn't bother me anymore. I play pool, one night a week I hang with friends, once a year I take a few days in Las Vegas, and I have a good time with it. You know yourself best, if you're the type that will always want this to be different than it is then the APA probably isn't for you. The Tom Taos (or Frank Burns') of the APA, we take care of them and we have fun with it. Believe me, it's not worth the potential headache you're about to have. Send it to St. Louis, get a reply and then let it go. As for Tom Tao of Tacoma, if he opens his mouth again and it pisses you off, a sharp rap with a house cue right behind his left ear will quell the situation nicely.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

You keep forgetting that I HAVE owned up to the mistakes. If a ref came over to watch a hit, ruled it was GOOD, then a few days later you find out he changed his mind because he didn't understand how to make a proper call, you would just stay quiet and let it happen to someone else later?

Those that are against my efforts to right what is wrong are only pointing out me going over 23. Over and over. You're not addressing the entire issue. Look at the situation as a WHOLE. Yes I made a mistake, and apologized to my team. But that's not where this ends.

If you owned up to your mistake you wouldn't be here complaining. Why make this convoluted? You went over and as a result you don't get any points. Forget the LO and the score sheets for a minute. You threw over 23. That means you DO NOT GET ANY TEAM POINTS. That is exactly what is being enforced, right?

 

[fast&loose designs]

If you owned up to your mistake you wouldn't be here complaining. Why make this convoluted? You went over and as a result you don't get any points. Forget the LO and the score sheets for a minute. You threw over 23. That means you DO NOT GET ANY TEAM POINTS. That is exactly what is being enforced, right?

Talking to you in circles. I think you enjoy defending one aspect of the argument and ignoring the rest. You ought to be a politician.

 

[leto1776]

Wait a sec. I mentioned in an earlier post about the signed score sheets. If you signed, then that acknowledges you broke the 23 rule. You said you hadn't signed. If you signed, as you are now saying, you signed your death sentence. Had you not signed,it would have shown your protest. Him signing acknowledges the breaking of the 23 rule.

 

[Celophanewrap]

Yes, it's true, you broke the sacred 23 rule and every knows it and has reminded you of it as well.
I think no one is acknowledging the applicable rule, the last rule and the one that should be the defining rule - the one that says if you don't agree don't sign the sheet, PAY YOUR PROTEST FEE, write your protest on the back of the score sheet and the league office will make a determination. Maybe Chris did fvck up, but so did The Sinister Tom Tao. Tom also neglected to follow the rules and then by signature he agreed to everything written on the score sheets. You really can't go around spouting rules and crying foul if you were too stupid to follow the rules yourself.

 

[fast&loose designs]

Wait a sec. I mentioned in an earlier post about the signed score sheets. If you signed, then that acknowledges you broke the 23 rule. You said you hadn't signed. If you signed, as you are now saying, you signed your death sentence. Had you not signed,it would have shown your protest. Him signing acknowledges the breaking of the 23 rule.

I only signed mine. I did not write in "broke 23 rule". I wrote 15-0 in that score, however, for that 5th match. I don't think he wrote "broke 23 rule" (but not sure, the SGVAPA won't send me copies of the scoresheet). He and I both wrote 51-44 at the bottom in our respective score boxes.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

Talking to you in circles. I think you enjoy defending one aspect of the argument and ignoring the rest. You ought to be a politician.

The "rest" doesn't matter here. You do not get points if you went over 23. That is the bottom line.