C.J. Wiley VS Keith McCready - What's The Line?

Palmerfan

AzB Gold Member
Silver Member
What's sad about being someone like Keith, who is as close to Minnesota Fats as still exists in pool - a real pool hustling living legend - is that when you were kicking everyone's ass, few would step up. Then as soon as you're out of practice, the lips start to fly. I remember Keith staring down top players until they were jelly. You did not just play Keith, you played the entire Keith show.

I was one of the doubters until 11 years ago when Keith decided to get in stroke and took 3rd at the US Open. Repeat, 3rd at the US Open! Folks, just think about that. Let's see someone else his age, away from the game so long, do that. THEN they can challenge Keith and it will actually mean something.

This is not to demean CJ - same exact thing goes for him. We need to show respect for greats and former greats. They REALLY WERE great and don't need to prove it every decade to the uninitiated.

Obviously the best post in this thread and 100% true.

Anytime I see "Pro Player" above a name...Keith, CJ, Daz..etc, I know I want to hear ANYTHING they have to say...in what other forums do you see the pro's interact with the fans. Tiger and Phil aren't in the Golf forums posting in threads or answering PM's...and if you wanna go with the age/retirement thing...neither are Nicklaus or Palmer. Why drive them off??
 

Banks

Banned
You're right, compared to yourself and "others," I've been a low achiever this year.

I apologize, since being active on this forum I've only made the 'Touch of Inside' video, 'Billiards Inside Secrets', 'TIP Banking Secrets' - also YouTube videos of 'Running 29 Balls in One Pocket' 'Beating the Ghost Playing Rotation, etc (click here to see any of these free videos) - this year I"ve made several other videos further explaining my systems and techniques but it's not enough....it's never enough to satisfy this demanding game. ;)

Another part of the "research and development" (in 2014) was participating in over 100 tournaments this year.....this proved to be an essential part of our game's epiphany.

Maybe taking time to be the Captain of the Mosconi Cup was what slowed me down. After all we lost by one match on the final day.....that would discourage many from trudging forward (Mike D and Brandon S. hasn't played in the MC since).....hopefully in 2015 they will attempt another appearance.

We have now created a pool game that showcases the best qualities (strategic battling/sparring and high-level shotmaking) of the game and look forward to selected players experiencing the differences, it will give commenters some interesting things to discuss and talk about.. 'The Game is the Teacher'

What amazes me the most is that you even seem to take yourself seriously in these posts.

I should've just kept this nonsense on ignore. :cool:

If you ever do anything besides try to sell videos about nothing in particular or copy and paste the same exact story from the last few years, let me know. Adios.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
"Fat Boy" - he's certainly a neutral source on pool related subjects

You've made it clear that you feel "funny inside" when you think someone is "bragging" on themselves (pro athletes have an agreement - "it's only bragging if it's not true").

Who would you like to hear from, how about "Fat Boy" - he's certainly a neutral source.
I saw CJ play Mark Tadd at Cue Club in Vegas 2 8 ahead sets and CJ played perfect pool. He won both sets in less than 2 hours $10,000/set.this was in 91-92


That night nobody in the world could beat him. He made 4 of 4 jump shots and got shape on all 4, and those 4 times he needed to jump was damn near the only time he wasnt in perfect line. I wish that match could have been taped, there was 200+ people there, JA and I have talked about it. JA was there too, Cardone, and probably lots of other people from AZB. It was probably the strongest session of 9 ball I ever seen to this day.


So my point is this, CJ sees pool a certain way, anyone who has a nuclear gear like that-I cant argue with, I wishI could see what he sees. It aint "Luck". Its genius and I'll listen.

You were so "In the Zone" I'm not sure you knew where you were. It was amazing, even after I saw you try and talk to a few guys I was standing rite there and you were still not really there. It's hard to explain, but man what a great focus you had. No disrespect to Mark, I was living in Vegas at the time and he was playing real real good. He had zero chance, nobody could have beat you that night. That was the chatter on the rail. I seen lots of pool and to this day i havent seen a match that one sided between 2 great players. Believe me if Mark had a shot he would have shot back he was at the top of his game then too. the $ line as I recall was a pick 'em.

In the financial world there is a axiom "Never take financial advice from someone doing worse off than your doing". I dont take financial advice from people making very little money, i listen to people who make more than me. Now some of those people make so much more than me "I just dont understand what the hell they are talking about, derivatives, puts, calls and other stock market jargon".

Same for pool players, I'll listen to anyone who plays better than me, I seen what CJ can do. I sure as hell aint going to argue with him, even if I dont understand him cause its clear he knows piles more about pool than me. that aint luck.


And I hardly know him, i met him 2-3 times for 30 seconds in the past 20 something years. Why in the world anyone would come on here and argue with him is beyond me, telling him it's luck. yeah right he got lucky, so did efren (who would have needed the 5 that night and still got beat, yeah he played that good)

best
eric "FATBOY"
Las Vegas
I have a hard time respecting (or relating to) someone who thrives on self-promotion, and fills thread after thread, with self glorification, self-engrandisement, (sp) and name dropping. :rolleyes:


D
 
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CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
if you were born without a humor detection mechanism get your Pituitary Gland checked

th

Seriously, if you don't have a humor detection mechanism it would be wise to get your Pituitary Gland checked.
th






What amazes me the most is that you even seem to take yourself seriously in these posts.

I should've just kept this nonsense on ignore. :cool:

If you ever do anything besides try to sell videos about nothing in particular or copy and paste the same exact story from the last few years, let me know. Adios.
 

Mikjary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The key to playing "one foul" is to break/rack well, and play safe in unsure situations. It's really about not making any mistakes, rather than aggressively taking the victory in a plethora of tough end rail shots, banks, cuts, and "2 Way Shots".

Pool has several great qualities, and the "2 Way Shot" is by far the most entertaining. Playing "one foul" rules - you may see these occasionally, (playing one foul) - these shots and situations come up consistently playing "Two Foul Rules".... the reasons & rules are simple and easy to learn.

A two foul matchup between you and Mr. Keith would be quite a show. Throw in some other venues and declare the winner in a 3 out of 5 series to showcase both of your strong suits. I'd put in a few shekels to the pot and pay to watch the PPV. It could be played over a weekend and winner take all.

Playing one foul would be too much of a grind. When I practice or play cheap, I rarely play safe. I like to go for the out and challenge myself. That's what I like to see when I watch top players match up. Seeing how much heart a player has is the draw in high stakes pool. Even a non-player would recognize that.

Best,
Mike
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
One foul only requires about 20% of the full arsenal of any champion player.

In the 70s and 80s it was rare for anyone to play "one foul" - however, the best players were very tough to "luck out on," and this was a concern for the promoters. They thought it would be bad for Buddy, Earl, and Sigel to dominate, although they did anyway, playing an inferior game.

The "cream" will always rise to the top, the important distinction is when they are required to utilize all their skills to reach "#1". One foul only requires about 20% of the full arsenal of any champion player.,,,,this means there's 80% we will not see.

The Pool Game is doing okay considering it's only 20% of it's potential...wonder what it could do with 80%?.....90%?.....100%?


A two foul matchup between you and Mr. Keith would be quite a show. Throw in some other venues and declare the winner in a 3 out of 5 series to showcase both of your strong suits. I'd put in a few shekels to the pot and pay to watch the PPV. It could be played over a weekend and winner take all.

Playing one foul would be too much of a grind. When I practice or play cheap, I rarely play safe. I like to go for the out and challenge myself. That's what I like to see when I watch top players match up. Seeing how much heart a player has is the draw in high stakes pool. Even a non-player would recognize that.

Best,
Mike
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the 70s and 80s it was rare for anyone to play "one foul" - however, the best players were very tough to "luck out on," and this was a concern for the promoters. They thought it would be bad for Buddy, Earl, and Sigel to dominate, although they did anyway, playing an inferior game.

The "cream" will always rise to the top, the important distinction is when they are required to utilize all their skills to reach "#1". One foul only requires about 20% of the full arsenal of any champion player.,,,,this means there's 80% we will not see.

The Pool Game is doing okay considering it's only 20% of it's potential...wonder what it could do with 80%?.....90%?.....100%?

So when Shane is making a ball on every break at shooting at a 950. clip how does this slow him down

1
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Running a rack isn't the toughest part of pool....not by a long shot

Breaking like that turns the game into a "par 3 course" (golf analogy) where you take all the mid and long irons out of play. Pool's the same way, when a champion player breaks and runs a rack it only requires about 2-5% of their total ability.

The best part of their games will hardly ever surface. This is a tragedy because these skills are the most entertaining (for fans) and challenging (for players).

Breaking and Running a rack isn't the toughest part of pool....not by a long shot. ;)


So when Shane is making a ball on every break at shooting at a 950. clip how does this slow him down

1
 
So when Shane is making a ball on every break at shooting at a 950. clip how does this slow him down

1

Breaking like that turns the game into a "par 3 course" (golf analogy) where you take all the mid and long irons out of play. Pool's the same way, when a champion player breaks and runs a rack it only requires about 2-5% of their total ability.

The best part of their games will hardly ever surface. This is a tragedy because these skills are the most entertaining (for fans) and challenging (for players).

Breaking and Running a rack isn't the toughest part of pool....not by a long shot. ;)

This is one of the most inane non-answers in your long history of non-answers.

Breaking and running out 9 balls has nothing to do with 1 or 2 fouls, it's great pool. How you could minimize it is unbelievable.

ONB
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is one of the most inane non-answers in your long history of non-answers.

Breaking and running out 9 balls has nothing to do with 1 or 2 fouls, it's great pool. How you could minimize it is unbelievable.

ONB


Easy there fella.

You're talking to the guy that ran 29 balls into a single pocket, and sacrificed his entire year of doing something meaningful to do so.
 
What's sad about being someone like Keith, who is as close to Minnesota Fats as still exists in pool - a real pool hustling living legend - is that when you were kicking everyone's ass, few would step up. Then as soon as you're out of practice, the lips start to fly. I remember Keith staring down top players until they were jelly. You did not just play Keith, you played the entire Keith show.

I was one of the doubters until 11 years ago when Keith decided to get in stroke and took 3rd at the US Open. Repeat, 3rd at the US Open! Folks, just think about that. Let's see someone else his age, away from the game so long, do that. THEN they can challenge Keith and it will actually mean something.

This is not to demean CJ - same exact thing goes for him. We need to show respect for greats and former greats. They REALLY WERE great and don't need to prove it every decade to the uninitiated.

I agree with much that you wrote but must take exception to the middle paragraph. First of all, Keith was 11 years younger at that US Open. 46 years old is not old & dead in the game of pool. I would also ask you this; Do you think his constant consumption of alcohol during his matches helped him get that far or do you think it may have led to his demise in the end?

If you want to think about things you need to think about both sides of it.

ONB
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Breaking like that turns the game into a "par 3 course" (golf analogy) where you take all the mid and long irons out of play. Pool's the same way, when a champion player breaks and runs a rack it only requires about 2-5% of their total ability.

The best part of their games will hardly ever surface. This is a tragedy because these skills are the most entertaining (for fans) and challenging (for players).

Breaking and Running a rack isn't the toughest part of pool....not by a long shot. ;)


So again Splain how you stop that with 2 foul ,
Just a little Keith side story , Keith played in one of our local weekday Turneys here , one time he caught one of our local sharp shooters Danny Green , can't remember the order of this , but one of them ran the set out the next week the other returned the favor ,, now that may not seem like skilled pool to you , but I know you have seen Keith play , and trust me here Danny in top gear is a serious player ,, ,, you could'nt finish a cup of coffee in the time these 2 took to run the set , it truly is a thing of beauty watching pool at that level ,
1
1
 
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In the 70s and 80s it was rare for anyone to play "one foul" - however, the best players were very tough to "luck out on," and this was a concern for the promoters. They thought it would be bad for Buddy, Earl, and Sigel to dominate, although they did anyway, playing an inferior game.

The "cream" will always rise to the top, the important distinction is when they are required to utilize all their skills to reach "#1". One foul only requires about 20% of the full arsenal of any champion player.,,,,this means there's 80% we will not see.

The Pool Game is doing okay considering it's only 20% of it's potential...wonder what it could do with 80%?.....90%?.....100%?

So when Shane is making a ball on every break at shooting at a 950. clip how does this slow him down

1

Breaking like that turns the game into a "par 3 course" (golf analogy) where you take all the mid and long irons out of play. Pool's the same way, when a champion player breaks and runs a rack it only requires about 2-5% of their total ability.

The best part of their games will hardly ever surface. This is a tragedy because these skills are the most entertaining (for fans) and challenging (for players).

Breaking and Running a rack isn't the toughest part of pool....not by a long shot. ;)

So again Splain how you stop that with 2 foul.

I suppose we are all just gluttonies for punishment.

glutton for punishment.jpg
 
You've made it clear that you feel "funny inside" when you think someone is "bragging" on themselves (pro athletes have an agreement - "it's only bragging if it's not true").

Who would you like to hear from, how about "Fat Boy" - he's certainly a neutral source.

Neutral source? He's certainly weak sauce.
 

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
i thought this thread was about CJ Wiley v Keith McCready rematch?
i believe it needs to happen, if for no other reason - HISTORY. they need to be documented, as two of "The Greats". Life's short.

and to sweeten the pot.... i'll throw-in my hat AND matching lizard boots! if CJ loses, i want to see this: :yikes:
 

Timothy Rose

...........
Silver Member
i look at both cj and keith, and where they are now They were pretty much world class hustlers in there day! they are now licking there chops hoping az or their members put this together and they are prob on the phone giggling like a couple girls waiting for someone to put up the $$$$$ ... is my opinion :)
 
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