Some thoughts about playing on fast cushions

[Ruthless]

I matched up the Simonis 860 (760 is billiard table cloth) with the Artemis Intercontinental No. 66 rails (K55 profile) on my Gold crown 1 when I restored it last year and it's the best playing table in Florida. I also pro cut the pockets at 4 1/4" corners and 4 1/2" sides. It's fast and most importantly it plays true. After you play on my table for a while it makes other 9' tables seem like 8' tables with buckets for pockets. It will frustrate most low level players and better players just want to keep practicing on it because it will lift your game a ball or so if you're willing to spend the time. It's in it's own 8K sq ft building and takes up it's own office that stays 74F @ 40% humidity 24/7 also (1st picture is before room was completed).

 

[ENGLISH!]

I might consider that....when customers start placing at least some kind of value on their pool table(s) like they do with the cues, chalk, and cue tips they're so proud to spend the money on to own

I was thinking more for commercial halls where there should be more use & more caring & more tables

But You'd know better than me.

 

[Allen Brown]

With fast rails, it actually helps to have a better stroke...

I learned playing on tables that were like glass. It was worn out Simonis 760 that would spin in place before drawing back.

I learned how to kill the CB by using more stroke and hitting the ball harder. People get gun shy when they aren't used to fast cloth/rails and it makes them play with hesitation.

I think once you learn how to apply the proper stroke, you will find the table is fine. People think you don't need a stroke for a fast table, but they are incorrect. You need one for different reasons other than to overcome the super slowness of the Mali cloth you used to play on..

I totally agree with this. I play much better on tables like this......especially Diamond tables. That's just me and my game and my opinion.

Glen, I'm going to ask you a question and if you don't mind would you answer it? If not for me for everyone else here. What cushions and cloth are recommended for a 7ft Blue Label Diamond?

 

[iusedtoberich]

Has the thought ever once crossed your mind that the fast cushions you're referring to that are killing your game....may NOT even be the result of the cushion's in the first place?
Maybe, just maybe....the result of the playability of the cushion's had something to do with who replaced them. Maybe the cushions that were used were the wrong cushions, maybe they weren't designed for the older style of rails they were installed on...you never did mention what kind of tables we're talking about here, so maybe the pool table mechanic is at fault....ever think about that? Sub rails and cushions MUST be matched up correctly in order to set the standard in which a table plays, there is NO shortcut to the math of that. Why is it that I could walk into that same pool room you're talking about, rebuild all the pool tables there....and not ONE person complain about the speed of the cushion's or banking short???....it MUST be the cushions....right?

Maybe, just maybe, you and Diamond totally ignore the players for the past 20 years that say the cushions are way too fast.

 

[Allen Brown]

Maybe, just maybe, you and Diamond totally ignore the players for the past 20 years that say the cushions are way too fast.

If you have faster cloth wouldn't you have to have faster cushions to kind of make it all even? Playing with one and not the other is kind of pointless isn't it?

 

[realkingcobra]

Maybe, just maybe, you and Diamond totally ignore the players for the past 20 years that say the cushions are way too fast.

First of all, I sure do get tired of you always trying to imply you know something, I haven't been involved with Diamond for the last 20 years, second....the playability of the Diamond tables WAS changed Oct 2010, and third, there's not a damn thing stopping you from running your mouth, and building your own line of tables.....so YOU can show the world how it's done right, which isn't going to happen, so that just leaves you as a shit talker.

 

[Dave-Kat]

Diamonds and GC's with 860 cloth and responsive fast rails. A real pleasure to play for me but takes a minute for me to adjust :lol:

They are an enjoyment to play on compared to the 'worsted' bar cloth and old rail un-leveled Valleys we play on 4 or 5 days a week. Stroke em'.


-Kat,

 

[realkingcobra]

I totally agree with this. I play much better on tables like this......especially Diamond tables. That's just me and my game and my opinion.

Glen, I'm going to ask you a question and if you don't mind would you answer it? If not for me for everyone else here. What cushions and cloth are recommended for a 7ft Blue Label Diamond?

O fine, but before I answer you...why do the cushions need replacing if it's a blue label?

 

[Allen Brown]

O fine, but before I answer you...why do the cushions need replacing if it's a blue label?

I didn't mention replacing anything. I was just wondering what is recommended for that particular table.

 

[realkingcobra]

I matched up the Simonis 860 (760 is billiard table cloth) with the Artemis Intercontinental No. 66 rails (K55 profile) on my Gold crown 1 when I restored it last year and it's the best playing table in Florida. I also pro cut the pockets at 4 1/4" corners and 4 1/2" sides. It's fast and most importantly it plays true. After you play on my table for a while it makes other 9' tables seem like 8' tables with buckets for pockets. It will frustrate most low level players and better players just want to keep practicing on it because it will lift your game a ball or so if you're willing to spend the time. It's in it's own 8K sq ft building and takes up it's own office that stays 74F @ 40% humidity 24/7 also (1st picture is before room was completed).

Just wondering, did you rebuild the rails to adapt the Artemis cushions to fit?

 

[realkingcobra]

I didn't mention replacing anything. I was just wondering what is recommended for that particular table.

Well, Diamond builds them at the factory to take the Diamond K55 black cushions they come with so, Diamond K55 black cushions, and the Simonis 860HR tour blue cloth.

 

[iusedtoberich]

First of all, I sure do get tired of you always trying to imply you know something, I haven't been involved with Diamond for the last 20 years, second....the playability of the Diamond tables WAS changed Oct 2010, and third, there's not a damn thing stopping you from running your mouth, and building your own line of tables.....so YOU can show the world how it's done right, which isn't going to happen, so that just leaves you as a shit talker.

You are the loudest person here. People, including me, keep our mouths shuts most of the time just so we won't get into it with you. Yes, you are great at what you do. BUT, your opinion of how the cushions "should" play is just that, an opinion. Just because you scream the most about the cushions, does not mean you are correct. There are pros from top to bottom that don't like the fast speed of the diamond cushions. And for years you have been saying they are the best.

 

[realkingcobra]

You are the loudest person here. People, including me, keep our mouths shuts most of the time just so we won't get into it with you. Yes, you are great at what you do. BUT, your opinion of how the cushions "should" play is just that, an opinion. Just because you scream the most about the cushions, does not mean you are correct. There are pros from top to bottom that don't like the fast speed of the diamond cushions. And for years you have been saying they are the best.

As usual, you keep talking about outgoing players that can't keep up with today's newer, younger players...who just happen to love the way Diamonds play....and are in the winners circle....not on the outside looking in.

 

[FranCrimi]

Err, no. Fast rails make it possible to do things with the cue ball that cannot be done with slower rails.

Fast rails (and fast cloth) makes you need a more delicate stroke, a more deliberate stroke; nothing more.

Fast rails take the edge away from a player who actually knows how to stroke shots and move the cue ball. Fast rails and fast cloth make it a slow roll game. Players who don't have a stroke love fast cloth and fast rails.

Might as well be playing bocce.

 

[Allen Brown]

Fast rails take the edge away from a player who actually knows how to stroke shots and move the cue ball. Fast rails and fast cloth make it a slow roll game. Players who don't have a stroke love fast cloth and fast rails.

Might as well be playing bocce.

Is speed control associated, in any way, with a persons stroke?

 

[realkingcobra]

Fast rails take the edge away from a player who actually knows how to stroke shots and move the cue ball. Fast rails and fast cloth make it a slow roll game. Players who don't have a stroke love fast cloth and fast rails.

Might as well be playing bocce.

So I guess the better player can't beat a lessor skilled player....because the rails play to fast because they can't rely on their stroke to beat the lessor skilled player.....ok, got it

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'm 62. So, I am not a 'new' player.

The new players do not have the experience of the 'old' way. So, they do not know that method of separating themselves as a better player by those means.

Now that means is not readily available to them. It's been taken away from them. So, they will do the best that they can by today's means.

Personally, I think the old way was better.

The changing golf ball has changed golf & not for the better IMHO.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Fast rails blow.
They sucked when they came out way back when, and they suck now.
Sure, some of the greatest pros in the universe have tables with fast rails in their house.
That DOES NOT mean that they think they are the greatest and love them above all others.
It just means that they know the majority of tournaments are held on equipment with bouncy rails, and they want to be able to get as much practice on that crap as possible.

If every tournament was on piece of junk "table X" and pool players incomes were determined on how they perform on "table X" it wouldn't make a difference how crappy that table was, you would have top professionals getting those crappy tables installed in their homes and pool halls that sponsored them, so they could practice on them.

 

[TATE]

I don't love too-fast tables but LOL that fast tables reward a bad stroke. On slow tables, I can get completely out of line and kill the cue ball for shape to extremes that do not even seem possible.

Fast tables require a more intimate knowledge of two, three and four rail shape paths because you can't kill the cue ball as much. They also require a much finer touch to arrive at the right position. May as well bring back the mud balls because phenolic balls are too lively - same idea.

The mechanic does have a lot to do with it but I've also seen room owners insist on putting cheap cushions of their tables. What players generally want is consistency. I don't like rooms where every table, even every rail, seems to have a different speed. To me this is the sign of room set up by a non-player or someone who is cheaping out on the quality and doesn't care.

 

[Colonel]

Err, no. Fast rails make it possible to do things with the cue ball that cannot be done with slower rails.

Fast rails (and fast cloth) makes you need a more delicate stroke, a more deliberate stroke; nothing more.

Yeah, like Gunnslinger said, rollers, not strokers.