And if anyone wants to know what it was like to watch Mosconi run 526 balls just watch this video 35 times in a row!
The Mosconi slipstroke
- Thread starter Straightpool_99
- Start date
And if anyone wants to know what it was like to watch Mosconi run 526 balls just watch this video 35 times in a row!
Come on, look:
His grip moves back on the cue on the final backstroke - clearly. And the cue is moving back at the same time.
Agreed?
Is that a slip stroke? If not, what is?
Thanks a lot for you effort, but I'm afraid you have wasted your time. The "authorities" on Mosconi has allready decided he didn't use a slipstroke and nothing, especially not hard, physical, verifiable evidence will ever change their minds.
Hazy recollections only, please.I sent you some green rep for your work. I wanted to make a gif, but the free programs I used had a 5 minute video limit, and I was to lazy to think of a workaround solution. Also, to be brutally honest, I had no idea, even in my wildest imagination, that someone would have the NERVE to try to dispute the video!
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No idea what the old ladies are making an issue of in this thread. One more time, here's my post from a few years back:
Mosconi did not use a slip stroke as in: for the huge honking majority of shots he shot he did not use a slip stroke, but it was a technique that maybe he used very, very rarely. That is borne out by the video and by the hundreds of shots eye-witnesses saw him shoot. And please don't talk to me about eye-witness accounts being faulty because we're not talking about a quick, flash of the eye, smash and grab, one time incident -- we're talking about knowledgable folks watching *one guy* play over and over again.
It would be like me putting up a gif of the one shot in a hundred for which Mosconi shoots left handed and saying, "Ah ha! Willie Mosconi was a left-handed player!" Well, somewhat obviously, no he wasn't. But it was a technique he sometimes (rarely) used. And if you take the time to actually read my years old post above, I've highlighted (for those with comprehension issues), that I was saying a loooooong time ago, "...maybe he used a slip stroke" on a very limited number of shots.
But frankly, I think he was just adjusting his grip ;-)
Lou Figueroa
Mosconi did not use a slip stroke as in: for the huge honking majority of shots he shot he did not use a slip stroke, but it was a technique that maybe he used very, very rarely. That is borne out by the video and by the hundreds of shots eye-witnesses saw him shoot. And please don't talk to me about eye-witness accounts being faulty because we're not talking about a quick, flash of the eye, smash and grab, one time incident -- we're talking about knowledgable folks watching *one guy* play over and over again.
It would be like me putting up a gif of the one shot in a hundred for which Mosconi shoots left handed and saying, "Ah ha! Willie Mosconi was a left-handed player!" Well, somewhat obviously, no he wasn't. But it was a technique he sometimes (rarely) used. And if you take the time to actually read my years old post above, I've highlighted (for those with comprehension issues), that I was saying a loooooong time ago, "...maybe he used a slip stroke" on a very limited number of shots.
But frankly, I think he was just adjusting his grip ;-)
Lou Figueroa
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Willie knew how to do the slip stroke. You can tell from the video/gif. It's really simple. Nobody is saying he shot every shot or even the majority of them using this technique. But it was in his arsenal, and he used it. It's like being able to shoot a jumpshot or a massè. Even one such shot can make a difference. It's safe to say that the greatest pocket billiards player of all time knew exactly when to employ this technique to the best effect. Therefore, the significance of him using it should not be underestimated.
There is no need to muddy the waters with lame double talk. Admit that he used it. That is all.
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Ya he developed that with his slip stroke long after his competitive yrs
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I think the stroke slip makes that moot.
He releases the cue so all that matters is the grip hand and bridge alignment.
Kinda like Efren tucking his elbow inside.
Joey~Actually kinda surprised Willie drops his elbow~
Nobody adjusts his grip on the last stroke .
If they did, that would be slip stroke. :wink:
Same stupid attitude... same answer - what Willie did is not a slip stroke.
He discusses it in his book. Learn to read and help wipe out ignorance.
Dale
That is one sweet slip stroke!
And how many times have pro players been absolutely wrong about what they THOUGHT they were doing?
Learn to view evidence objectively and help wipe out ignorance.
FYI, I used this - very easy to make animated gifs from youtube, you can specify whatever start & end times you want:
The result is stored on that site; I don't know how long it lives before it gets removed.
Right, I concur. I don't know the history of this argument, but if anybody was arguing either extreme - "he never used a slip stroke" or "he always used a slip stroke" - they're wrong (as extreme positions usually are.) So strike the "maybe", we can see he used it on at least 2(!) shots in his lifetime.
Indeed, adjusting it backwards while moving the cue backwards, then no further adjustment for the final forward motion. Call it what you like. :wink:
I played Willie several times.
He did use a slip stroke.
I used one also until the faster cloth came out.
Many players of that era used it because it was necessary to move the cue ball any distance on the slow cloth.
Bill S.
Hey, you are right, I found it in his lesser known book, 'My Life According to PDCues', page 527 (the missing page):
"During the two shots in the video of me casually running a rack of balls, there were a few shots where my hand visibly slips over the handle of the cuestick during my final back stroke. Sometimes, tho rarely, I do this. I don't really have a name for it, but Dale assured me that it is not a 'slip stroke,' because I, William Mosconi, do not use a slip stroke. Ever. Not once. I'm the most accomplished player in the history of pocket billiards, there is no reason to ever think that I might practice multiple techniques. And my elbow did not drop."
We'd be hard pressed to think of a pro today who uses the technique. But many of the greats did in the past. The stroke we can see Mosconi use in the footage of the two shots is Mosconi sliding his rear hand back to find a different grip on the cue prior to the final stroke.
Mosconi also can be seen in the same video practicing for an extra-long follow through while in the erect position. On the shot, he would have quite the long, flowing follow through in those instances.
Sliding your hand back during the practice strokes or checkoff point before the final backstroke of the actual shot stroke is called a "slip stroke". Tossing the cue forward through your hand to catch it again on the final shot forward stroke, I call a "reverse slip stroke" (slipping forwards, not with a backwards hand motion) for clarity. Greenleaf used an rss and Mosconi saw him do so many times.
I call Mosconi's motion during the actual stroke a "body slip stroke". It's nonsense to tell EVERY student to remain motionless during the stroke except for the stroking arm, some players do better with motion. However, the pro motion (for those who move during the stroke) is down and forward, with the plane of the cue stick, not jumping into the air to watch the shot.
Mosconi also can be seen in the same video practicing for an extra-long follow through while in the erect position. On the shot, he would have quite the long, flowing follow through in those instances.
Sliding your hand back during the practice strokes or checkoff point before the final backstroke of the actual shot stroke is called a "slip stroke". Tossing the cue forward through your hand to catch it again on the final shot forward stroke, I call a "reverse slip stroke" (slipping forwards, not with a backwards hand motion) for clarity. Greenleaf used an rss and Mosconi saw him do so many times.
I call Mosconi's motion during the actual stroke a "body slip stroke". It's nonsense to tell EVERY student to remain motionless during the stroke except for the stroking arm, some players do better with motion. However, the pro motion (for those who move during the stroke) is down and forward, with the plane of the cue stick, not jumping into the air to watch the shot.
Come on, look:
His grip moves back on the cue on the final backstroke - clearly. And the cue is moving back at the same time.
Agreed?
Is that a slip stroke? If not, what is?
This is a BIG 'slip stroke'. Reminds me of Corn Bread Red,that I played for hours. John B.
PS; at least that's what all the older players I grew up around call it. Guess you can make up a new name for just about anything really tho.
I say we call it 'Mosconironi'.