Want to buy a Gold Crown and trick it out...What do I do?

[trentfromtoledo]

Never had a problem with the rails from the factory

When I do have a set of rails that need to be altered I drive them down to Jack Zimmerman. I have contracted him to do a set of Anniversary and Centennial rails for restoration projects in the past.

As I mentioned before, I have never heard a complaint about the way a GC4 plays in general or one that I have done the cushion work on

I also never said I rebuild subrails. My cushion/ pocket facing work is spot on.

Trent from Toledo

 

[realkingcobra]

The Brunswick Superspeed cushion and GC4 go hand in hand. The cushion fits the table perfectly. I am a Brunswick fan and always will be. That being said, I know they have testing facilities and LOTS of money to do research on their products. I love the GC4 and as I said before they are my favorite tables of the series. Having worked on/ restored and played on many, I am confident in my knowledge concerning them. Some people may think their way is better than Brunswicks, but, I am always going to trust a company that has been making pool tables since 1845. I have never heard anyone complain about the way they play. Extending the subrails is by far any sort of rocket science....

I do know this about being a professional at anything: If you claim your designs are better, back it up with facts, not "because I said so" ..... PROVE YOUR WORK. Explain why your work is better in terms that everyone else can understand. Exact angles, measurements, research, testing and all of the details why. In other words FACTS. Someone saying they have been doing this forever does not prove anything.

Building pool tables since 1845, one would think Brunswick could make the miter angles the same on both sides of a corner pocket, but no modern era Brunswick tables like the Anniversaries, centenials, or any of the GCs ever built have matching corner pocket miters. They can't even get the ear length the same on both sides of the side pockets. And to correct the record, the first GC3s came out witb the Monarch Superspeed cushions, 1 1/8"wide and are not directly interchangeable with todays cushions without modifying the sub rails, because the early GC3s actuallyhad GC2 rails on them. And, the GC4 bad the worst built frame of all the GCs because the end frame cross member capped the long frame members, wbich caused the end slates to drop at both ends of the frame, which is why they corrected the design flaw in the GC5s, but even with GC5s they still can't get the pockets miter angles to match on both sides of the corner and side pockets....even though they've been around since 1845

 

[CuesDirectly]

I'm 60 and been working on tables for about 30 yrs....so if you think it don't take long to figure things out about rails....your not understanding about tables.

Brunswick makes comes out with a new GC table every 10 yrs.....they skipped on the GC 2 because it was really the same table as the 1......just fixed some problems they figured out when the 1 showed problems.
The 3 ran for 20 yrs cause they sold so many table when the movie color of money came out.....the 4 ran from 97 - 07 and had a lot of problems.

I helped design the 5 which I believe is the best GC ever made by far.

The 6 is coming out this spring so I hear.....didn't have anything to do with the design.....I can't wait to see the design.....just might be awesome....I'm sure the fixes on the frame and castings and others things on the 5...I don't see Brunswick making change to those.....I hope.

Mark Gregory

Now and then I am very impressed with the things I see on AZBilliards.

This morning, I am as impressed as I have ever been, WHY?

Mark Gregory helped Brunswick with the design of their Gold Crown 5. I cannot in my dreams think of any better endorsement in the industry.

Mark and I have some of the same customers and the people I know speak as highly of Mark as can be spoken. (If I didn't enjoy the dimples on the formica of my Gold Crown I would send them to Mark in a heartbeat, the table was made in Sept 1962. I would be happy to have RKC do them as well but I like what I have and I am only commenting to stand up for two great guys who know their tables.)


Keep up the great work, Thanks, Dave.

 

[gxman]

Whats the best deal on a new GC5 tournament edition? A local vendor was quoting me $9K+

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Building pool tables since 1845, one would think Brunswick could make the miter angles the same on both sides of a corner pocket, but no modern era Brunswick tables like the Anniversaries, centenials, or any of the GCs ever built have matching corner pocket miters. They can't even get the ear length the same on both sides of the side pockets. And to correct the record, the first GC3s came out witb the Monarch Superspeed cushions, 1 1/8"wide and are not directly interchangeable with todays cushions without modifying the sub rails, because the early GC3s actuallyhad GC2 rails on them. And, the GC4 bad the worst built frame of all the GCs because the end frame cross member capped the long frame members, wbich caused the end slates to drop at both ends of the frame, which is why they corrected the design flaw in the GC5s, but even with GC5s they still can't get the pockets miter angles to match on both sides of the corner and side pockets....even though they've been around since 1845

No one is perfect, but, they have been the best in the game of pool for a very long time!

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Building pool tables since 1845, one would think Brunswick could make the miter angles the same on both sides of a corner pocket, but no modern era Brunswick tables like the Anniversaries, centenials, or any of the GCs ever built have matching corner pocket miters. They can't even get the ear length the same on both sides of the side pockets. And to correct the record, the first GC3s came out witb the Monarch Superspeed cushions, 1 1/8"wide and are not directly interchangeable with todays cushions without modifying the sub rails, because the early GC3s actuallyhad GC2 rails on them. And, the GC4 bad the worst built frame of all the GCs because the end frame cross member capped the long frame members, wbich caused the end slates to drop at both ends of the frame, which is why they corrected the design flaw in the GC5s, but even with GC5s they still can't get the pockets miter angles to match on both sides of the corner and side pockets....even though they've been around since 1845

p.s. I never said the all the 3's take the current superspeed, in fact I never mentioned the 3 at all, Mark did. the later 3's take the cushions just fine. they also have the same ball storage box metal as a 4...

The early 3's also had the frame like a 2 or 1, with the ends between the side beams. They also had the steel L brackets on the rails for the castings to bolt on to, rather than the cheap threaded inserts they used!

 

[perfectpocketz]

Thanks for all the infinite wisdom and charm! You keep saying you are not going to post on here anymore and can't seem to stop coming on here bashing anyone you can.

Whether you believe it or not, there are others out there that care about doing good work and making their clients happy. I am always busy and my clients are always happy to pay me when I am done with their projects!

Trent from Toledo

Over 50 Brunswick restorations and counting !

https://www.facebook.com/pg/toledopooltables/photos/?tab=albums

I'm rally not interested in going back and forth with anyone on here.....but when I read bull.....I'll call ya out.....that's what you don't like.
You just want to buy cheap tables....send the work out to whom ever will do the cheapest work and flip the table.

It's not about the customer with you....it's about what can I get away with....and how much can I make.....that's all it is with you.

You get on here and try to say things someone told you to look as if you know about pool tables.....you bury Craig's list with adds and push tables you do next to no work to.

Glen and I won't do rail work for you.......you hope I go away so I don't call you out.
Remember your smart mouth got you here......and I'm not going to forget it.

Now go pedal your so called restored tables......i have nothing against anyone trying to make money.......just give them what they pay for....a real table done by table mechanics.
I heard enough stories about your tables.....from the ones you think are your friends.lol

Mark Gregory

 

[JazzboxBlues]

Well I guess the thread started some lively conversation. At least I know I want a 4 now. Just have to fix its deficiencies.

 

[Bobkitty]

Well I guess the thread started some lively conversation. At least I know I want a 4 now. Just have to fix its deficiencies.

Yeah, you got more than you asked for. I think the conclusion is that no matter what table you start out with (as long as it's one of the top ones), it's going to need a lot of work by these specialists to make it a great playing table. I already have Mark's rails and am now waiting for Glen to show up to make it a great table with his leveling modifications. I've learned that even new Brunswick GC5's and Diamonds are not perfect and need a visit from these guys.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

You obviously do want to go back an forth. This is not the first time and probably wont be the last time you go on another one of these rants. You keep saying you are going to stop posting here and yet you cannot resist. Nothing you say here affects my business and you have actually never actually seen any of my work other than in pictures... I can also say the same for yours, I have never played on one of your tables.

My clients are always happy and I know for a fact none of them have called you to speak bad about my work....

I agree with you 100% about buying tables in the BEST condition I can. I don't pretend to rebuild rails, I have no problem sending that part out to be done. Or any part I can't do properly for that matter.

You see my client base is very affluent and also very educated. Trying to pass off some bullshit work would not be a good idea. I love what I do and would never try to give my clients any less than they should receive.

Someone in the past said this about you, he later took it back, but, it was still classic: "I would not buy a cup of water from you if I were on FIRE" AHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

I know you and RKC are best of buddies. Not worried about what you guys talk about, but, it makes me all warm an fuzzy inside that you spend your time talking about lil ole me :thumbup:

RKC has always helped me out with his knowledge base and I appreciate that he does that for me and everyone else. He is a true pioneer in this business.

You do great work, there is no doubt in that, but, I have ZERO respect for you as a person. Have a great day!

What a beauty!

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Well I guess the thread started some lively conversation. At least I know I want a 4 now. Just have to fix its deficiencies.

I apologize for your thread going in a non productive direction, its pretty clear who disrupted it. I stand behind the things I have said about the GC4 and think its a great table. I have 2 of them on hand right now and they are a pleasure to work on. Doing an all white one like Brunswick had on their site for a gentleman in Lexington and it will surely be awesome!! Jerimy Chambers will take excellent care of you and good luck to you with your project!

Trent from Toledo

https://www.facebook.com/pg/toledopooltables/photos/?tab=albums

 

[JC]

I have owned 2 gold crowns and now I have a diamond.

You couldn't give me back those Brunswick tables again for free.

It's so nice to shoot pool without altering shots around poorly designed shaft eating pot metal land mines.

Just my opinion, and the diamond pro is every bit as attractive. The Pro-am? Not so much. That one looks like a unit of plywood being raped by a pool table.

Oh and I love how this thread turned to shit when the ever bickering traveling circus showed up. Can't talk about a pool table without that angry sideshow coming to town.


JC

 

[JoeyInCali]

I have owned 2 gold crowns and now I have a diamond.

You couldn't give me back those Brunswick tables again for free.

It's so nice to shoot pool without altering shots around poorly designed shaft eating pot metal land mines.

Just my opinion, and the diamond pro is every bit as attractive. The Pro-am? Not so much. That one looks like a unit of plywood being raped by a pool table.

Oh and I love how this thread turned to shit when the ever bickering traveling circus showed up. Can't talk about a pool table without that angry sideshow coming to town.


JC

How does the metal casting damage the shaft?

 

[fastone371]

Never had a problem with the rails from the factory

When I do have a set of rails that need to be altered I drive them down to Jack Zimmerman. I have contracted him to do a set of Anniversary and Centennial rails for restoration projects in the past.

As I mentioned before, I have never heard a complaint about the way a GC4 plays in general or one that I have done the cushion work on

I also never said I rebuild subrails. My cushion/ pocket facing work is spot on.

Trent from Toledo

Im not trying to start any fights with anyone but in that 2nd pic it does not look like the protractor body is parallel with the nose of the cushion, maybe its just an optical illusion. The red stripe/seam at the cushion appears wider at the bottom of the picture than at the top of the picture. If I can see it Im sure others will notice also.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Im not trying to start any fights with anyone but in that 2nd pic it does not look like the protractor body is parallel with the nose of the cushion, maybe its just an optical illusion. The red stripe/seam at the cushion appears wider at the bottom of the picture than at the top of the picture. If I can see it Im sure others will notice also.

I'm not arguing but I don't like 141*.:grin:
139*-140* but a little less than 4 1/2 at the opening.

 

[JC]

How does the metal casting damage the shaft?

Certain shots if trying to use a rail bridge brings the edges in contact with your wood. Especially on the side pockets.

The ball counters are also a problem.

Not as bad as a valley table but not a diamond by a damn sight.

Of course you can shoot around them but I want to shoot a shot how I want to, not how the table rails dictate I have to.

I have owned Brunswicks and I now have a diamond. The diamond is better in pretty much every way. It was rebuilt by RKC however. RKC cannot build the funky pocket irons out of a GC.

JC

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Certain shots if trying to use a rail bridge brings the edges in contact with your wood. Especially on the side pockets.

The ball counters are also a problem.

Not as bad as a valley table but not a diamond by a damn sight.

Of course you can shoot around them but I want to shoot a shot how I want to, not how the table rails dictate I have to.

I have owned Brunswicks and I now have a diamond. The diamond is better in pretty much every way. It was rebuilt by RKC however. RKC cannot build the funky pocket irons out of a GC.

JC

The GC4 has flush castings & pockets, no counters and no name badge. Takes out all of those issues.

 

[JoeyInCali]

The GC4 has flush castings & pockets, no counters and no name badge. Takes out all of those issues.

Or you can have those castings sanded smooth then powder coated.

 

[jtompilot]

I have a black and Crome GC4 at home. I think it plays great. 1, 2, 3 rail banks are very consistent from side to side. Sure I'd like better corner miters but their not bad. I think the tables banks pretty close to most blue label Diamonds.

I'll tell you Diamond is not without its share of problems from my playing perspective. Red label, blue label, modified reds, makes my head spin. I thought when Diamond came out with the blue label they fixed the banking problems, not even close.

Go to the Rack in Livonia Mi. They have two of the goofiest blue label Diamonds I've ever seen. They bank as short as any red label I've played on. The front blue blue label banks great. Go to Buffalo's in Metairie, they have a mixture of blue and red labels and they bank differently.

Overall I do like the Diamond Professional over my GC4 but it's pretty close.

 

[Bobkitty]

I have a black and Crome GC4 at home. I think it plays great. 1, 2, 3 rail banks are very consistent from side to side. Sure I'd like better corner miters but their not bad. I think the tables banks pretty close to most blue label Diamonds.

I'll tell you Diamond is not without its share of problems from my playing perspective. Red label, blue label, modified reds, makes my head spin. I thought when Diamond came out with the blue label they fixed the banking problems, not even close.

Go to the Rack in Livonia Mi. They have two of the goofiest blue label Diamonds I've ever seen. They bank as short as any red label I've played on. The front blue blue label banks great. Go to Buffalo's in Metairie, they have a mixture of blue and red labels and they bank differently.

Overall I do like the Diamond Professional over my GC4 but it's pretty close.

Would you please describe "banking short". From the corner pocket would you aim at diamond 2 or 3 for a three rail into the adjacent pocket? And then, how should a table bank? OR, should we just know that tables bank differently and it's up to us to know about it before the match? I'm confused on this issue.
I think a billiard table banks a three rail by aiming at 3 (and not 2). A friend's Olhausen plays that way.