Killer Shot

[iusedtoberich]

Your shot!!!

Hi DrCuesProtege, I was just watching my ghost run from 2 night ago, and your shot came up! ha ha The CB spin grabbed off the end rail a bit more than I intended, but I still got out

Direct link to shot at time stamp 11min 17sec:
https://youtu.be/L6SaWrk0N-Y?t=677

 

[iusedtoberich]

CUT THE CRAP HERE BOYS AND STICK TO THE ORIGINAL POST.

It just f-word amazes me how sooooo many posts turn into sh~t throwing threads like this.

Anyway, here's another side pocket shot that I have been struggling with. One that I've practiced 10,000 times. Perhaps the fact that my side pockets are no more than 4 3/4 inches wide - at the most - could account for part of the problem. Its my understanding that's pretty tight for side pockets.


https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/79777.png

That's a hard ass shot, imo. Pros will miss this one.

BTW, why in the world do you have tight pockets?! You have redone your table so many times over the years. I have 5" factory GC buckets on mine, and absolutely love it. I want to have fun playing pool, not bang my head on the table like that Italian player did in Philly years ago and busted his head open. Players like us, tight pockets won't do anything but make us worse and take any enjoyment out of the game. YMMV

 

[kor b]

That's a hard ass shot, imo. Pros will miss this one.

BTW, why in the world do you have tight pockets?! You have redone your table so many times over the years. I have 5" factory GC buckets on mine, and absolutely love it. I want to have fun playing pool, not bang my head on the table like that Italian player did in Philly years ago and busted his head open. Players like us, tight pockets won't do anything but make us worse and take any enjoyment out of the game. YMMV

I agree for us average players and pockets that are friendly.

 

[JC]

I will add aiming systems to my list of things never to discuss at Thanksgiving.

JC

 

[Eric.]

CUT THE CRAP HERE BOYS AND STICK TO THE ORIGINAL POST.

It just f-word amazes me how sooooo many posts turn into sh~t throwing threads like this.

Anyway, here's another s]

Amazing. Way to win em over, haha.

OCD, you are definitely the life of the party!


Eric

 

[Z-Nole]

So, are you guys who think these shots are hard Catholic by chance?

 

[Straightpool_99]

CUT THE CRAP HERE BOYS AND STICK TO THE ORIGINAL POST.

It just f-word amazes me how sooooo many posts turn into sh~t throwing threads like this.

Anyway, here's another side pocket shot that I have been struggling with. One that I've practiced 10,000 times. Perhaps the fact that my side pockets are no more than 4 3/4 inches wide - at the most - could account for part of the problem. Its my understanding that's pretty tight for side pockets.


https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/79777.png

Ok. I'll cut the crap!

You miss this shot, even though you have shot it 10000 times. What does that tell you?

1. It's a hard shot. Shooting it many times will make it less hard, but it's still hard. You should have realistic expectations. Even pros will miss tough shots occationally, and pros do have bad days, just ask the US Mosconi team.

2. Blindly shooting shots over and over won't fix every problem. There I said it. Nothing else is taught this way, I wonder why so many people think it's the best way to learn pool. Do they train nuclear technicians by sticking them at a worksstation and have them randomly press buttons, like Homer Simpson? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rsk1quUps0

If you miss, you need to know what you did to cause the miss. If you miss fairly regularly, then whatever you did, you do regularly.

Question A: Do you have a camera set up to record how you shoot the shot?

Question B: Do you actually watch the video you record?

Question C: Have you got any hypotheses AT ALL about why this is happening?

Question D: Have you tested those hypotheses?

You do know that the "HAMB" thing is just a figure of speech, right? You need to actually LEARN something from shooting those million shots, and then change something based on what you learned, not just doing the same thing over and over. Even pidgeons in behavioral experiments actually do this to a degree, but I'd trust you to be a bit more methodical and intelligent in your approach than such an animal.

I'd start at the following:

1. Set up the shot 50 times and video tape it, then watch EVERY attempt to see if you can catch something that looks off.

2. Record success rate.

3. If you catch something bad, try to change it and then record success rate.

4. If nothing at all stood out, try changing your aimpoint in the pocket (or on the ball if you prefer) subtly, then record success rate.

5. Try hitting the shot with TOI or TOO and record your success rate. If you have a higher degree of success, than may be indicative that you are striking the cueball very slightly off center normally (or it could be something else).

6. This should really be number one, but from your posts I guess you are reluctant to do it: Have a good player observe the video, BUT DON'T TELL the person about any of your own ideas. Pay them if you have to.

Final piece of advice: Change only one thing at a time!

 

[erhino41]

The first thing you have to do is stop thinking of shots as hard. There certainly are hard shots on a pool table, neither of these are them. These may be perceived as hard but in reality they shouldn't be. If you took the same exact cut angle and moved it over to the side rail going into the corner pocket you would think of this shot as relatively easy.

This is essentially the same shot:

Do you have trouble with this particular shot?

A lot of players get it into their head that "back cuts" are somehow harder than other shots on the table. Any shot comes down to delivering the cue ball to hit a specific part of the object ball. The only thing that changes is the spot on the ball you are hitting. The execution is really the same once squirt, swerve and throw have been factored into aiming.

There are not many shots at all that require a certain spin on the cue ball to pocket the OB. Some shots are aided by spin but most do not require it. The spin you use on any given shot should be dictated by the resulting position that you need to achieve. I would actually suggest that you practice pocketing this particular shot with every type of spin. If you always play a certain type of shot with a certain type of spin you will find yourself in a bind when a situation dictates you have to shoot it with a different type of spin. The problem lies in your ability to find the correct spot on the OB to hit. If you don't have trouble with the above shot then the issue is clearly one of perception.

 

[erhino41]

I just read your post on having tight side pockets. While that will make the margin of error smaller, both the shots you diagrammed are coming in from a pretty straight angle and the tightness of the pocket really shouldn't be an issue. You need to practice into those sides until you are always finding the heart of the pocket.

Really tight side pockets become quite tough as the ob angle gets steeper to the pocket, i.e. closer to the long rail. I find myself cutting balls into the corners, that I would otherwise play into the side pockets, on tables with overly tight side pockets.

The only thing I find hard about tight pockets is that they take away a lot of your ability to cheat them to manufacture a better angle for position. The way to negate that is to play better angles in the first place to avoid the need to cheat the pocket.

 

[erhino41]

you have so many problems
are you sure your fundamentals are sound ??
do you consistently miss thick or thin or random?
if random when aiming for center pocket probably you need to work on your stroke
if you miss it consistently thick aim to over cut it alittle (thats what i have to do )
if you miss it thin aim to undercut it alittle
jmho

Good questions!

I would add that if you are missing randomly it still may be a matter of perception. The fact that you aren't quite sure how to shoot the shot confuses the part of the brain that executes by rote and it randomly tries to compensate. It may be an actual stroking error, do you have similar issues with a lot of other shots or are just the side pockets giving you trouble?

I remember a point in time when the side pockets where giving me trouble, for no other reason than I was not as familiar with them as I should have been. It was the perception that somehow shooting into the side pockets was different than shooting into the corners. Once I taught myself there wasn't any difference in the actual aiming and execution process, I haven't had that issue.

"if you miss it consistently thick aim to over cut it alittle (thats what i have to do )
if you miss it thin aim to undercut it alittle"

This again is a perception issue. By "aiming to overcut it alittle" you are really just aiming at the proper spot you should have been aiming at in the first place. Finding what you believe to be the correct aiming point and then telling yourself you need to aim to overcut is a very confusing way to think about it. You need to learn to find the proper contact point from the get go.

The way you teach yourself this may include the above mentioned advice, but this should be a habit that is moved away quickly once you can reliably pocket the shot. your only going to teach yourself an extra step to take in order to get where you should have been in the first place and your realigning while in your stance which is something I feel should never be done. If your not aligned properly you should stand up and realign then address the ball. If you learn to align properly you shouldn't be able to miss the shot with a straight stroke and no English.

One thing I would try is to line up the shot and address the ball as if you are ready to shoot. Without moving have a friend place a ball in the ghost ball postion and judge how accurately you are aligned with the ghost ball. Remove the ghost ball, stand back up and readdress the ball as you normally would and replace the ghost ball and check your alignment again. Repeat this as necessary until you start to get a feel for the natural alignment. Once you get a feel for the natural alignment you can then start to think about spin and all the required adjustments.

 

[erhino41]

One more piece of advice. When I practice a particular shot over and over again, I try to set the shot up just slightly different every time. Just a couple of degrees here or there. This forces me to have to do all the calculations from square one and not rely on remembering the calculations from the shot before.

Having said that, it certainly can be useful to have the shot set up exactly the same using donuts. This can give you very exact feedback and provide you with the opportunity to make really fine tuned adjustments.

I hope some of this helps.

 

[SmoothStroke]

This guy must be pulling everybody's chain, again.

This is a routine shot, just an eyelash of a back cut, if that.
You should be able to make this shot with any English, at any speed, with a mop, one eye closed and the other eye shut, handcuffed.

Here is a good drill to help.
Place the cue ball directly in the center of the table.
Shoot it straight into the side pocket for the next 45 years.
Then switch to the other side pocket for a short 30 years.

If that doesn't help practice back cuts for the remainder of your life.
Don't forget the mop.

 

[BC21]

The first thing you have to do is stop thinking of shots as hard. There certainly are hard shots on a pool table, neither of these are them. These may be perceived as hard but in reality they shouldn't be. If you took the same exact cut angle and moved it over to the side rail going into the corner pocket you would think of this shot as relatively easy.

This is essentially the same shot:

Do you have trouble with this particular shot?

A lot of players get it into their head that "back cuts" are somehow harder than other shots on the table. Any shot comes down to delivering the cue ball to hit a specific part of the object ball. The only thing that changes is the spot on the ball you are hitting. The execution is really the same once squirt, swerve and throw have been factored into aiming.

There are not many shots at all that require a certain spin on the cue ball to pocket the OB. Some shots are aided by spin but most do not require it. The spin you use on any given shot should be dictated by the resulting position that you need to achieve. I would actually suggest that you practice pocketing this particular shot with every type of spin. If you always play a certain type of shot with a certain type of spin you will find yourself in a bind when a situation dictates you have to shoot it with a different type of spin. The problem lies in your ability to find the correct spot on the OB to hit. If you don't have trouble with the above shot then the issue is clearly one of perception.

Standard quarter ball hit for fractional aimers. I like the way you moved the shot from side pocket to corner, making it easier to see the angle.

 

[Straightpool_99]

Disregard this post, I was talking about the OP's second shot. Nevermind.

 

[Black-Balled]

I only read page 1...and I am in the L) spin camp, given the choice. I feel like I tend to undercut the ball in the pic, missing to the L) side of the pocket.

I think without the L) spin, the cb/ ob cling and the line of the shot is actually different than the lie looks.

 

[ChrisinNC]

CUT THE CRAP HERE BOYS AND STICK TO THE ORIGINAL POST.

It just f-word amazes me how sooooo many posts turn into sh~t throwing threads like this.

Anyway, here's another side pocket shot that I have been struggling with. One that I've practiced 10,000 times. Perhaps the fact that my side pockets are no more than 4 3/4 inches wide - at the most - could account for part of the problem. Its my understanding that's pretty tight for side pockets.


https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/79777.png

Yep, on 4-3/4" side pockets this is certainly not that easy a shot. How you play it depends on where you need to leave the CB for the next shot. If it's the 9-ball, I'm likely just playing it with 6 o'clock draw and bringing the CB back in to the side rail just short of the side pocket, because center ball or even follow may possibly come too close to scratching in the top right corner.

 

[gforces1911]

I get it

This shot has been a killer for me lately when practicing. Anybody have any tips on making this shot? I am talking here about a back-cut into the side pocket on the 3-Ball.

r/DCP


https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/89c1f.png

It is a missable shot. I tend to hit this too thick at times. Hard to gauge because you do not have a great view of the back of the pocket and contact point at the same time. Just my two cents.

In these situations what helps is deciding where you want the cueball to end up. Sometimes focusing more on that task helps.

 

[MattPoland]

For thin cuts, deeper back cuts, rail shots, and other similar I like to use the aiming method Fast Eddie Parker shows in his video.

Stand behind the object ball on the pocket line. Observe the contact point. Notice how the contact point is at the center of the object ball at that perspective. Walk over to the cue ball without losing sight of the contact point. As you walk, observe the contact point moving from the center of the object ball closer to the edge of the object ball as your perspective changes. Once behind the cue ball, gauge how far in from the edge the contact point is. Picture a similar point on the cue ball the same distance from the inside edge of the cue ball. Line yourself up so that both points are on the same line. Shoot the shot with a center ball hit with the cue ball parallel to that contact point line.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[alstl]

What game do you play? Some 14.1 might help because cut shots at an angle come up frequently.

 

[PoolBum]

CUT THE CRAP HERE BOYS AND STICK TO THE ORIGINAL POST.

It just f-word amazes me how sooooo many posts turn into sh~t throwing threads like this.

It's Barry's fault, he introduced the shit first:

And like others have said the best thing to do when you don’t like a shit...