That 7'r makes a Valley look like a work of art in comparison. I didn't know these were so bad. wow. Add to the build issues the availability(or lack thereof) of getting Spanish-sourced parts and you've got a recipe for heartache/wallet-ectomy.
Predator table review, 2024 Expo
- Thread starter iusedtoberich
- Start date
Think a Diamond or Gold Crown would suffer the same damage? Not likely.
Do some research on other manufacturers construction.
If plywood rails are such a great idea, how come no one has done it in 150 years of pool table construction?
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I know a lot about tables. I agree this is probably not as sturdy as a Diamond, but I think it's sturdy enough. Very wide pieces of plywood have a lot of strength to them. It's like comparing a modern unibody car construction to a body on frame truck construction. Both have pros and cons, and both are good enough for their applications.
Certainly with my limited play on both tables, they did not move when bumped into and played very sturdy. Nothing noticeable due to the frame or rail construction. The only negative I noticed "of play" was the tinny sound on the 7' table.
Yes, that's all I could. They were closing up. The tables were in a booth, not out in the open.
I wish I could have played more. But to figure out how a table plays, that was enough time IMO.
In the same venue, I played on the Diamond bar boxes maybe 4 hours. I had a match in the amateur open tournament, then a gambling set, then after the tournament when some tables were open, I hit balls with a buddy for a bit. Those 3 different Diamond tables I played on all played like pin ball machines, as I expected.
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And before anyone says I can't play on a Diamond, I can. I just won a tournament on one 3 nights ago. I've cashed at the DCC Banks tournament. Of course I can adjust. It's just the adjustment is stupid. The boing is wrong. The speed of the rails should kill the CB. Not keep it flying around the table.
One more, the 7' Gold Crown Coin. I didn't play on this one, but I watched Savana play on it a good 10 minutes in one of the booths. She was sharing the booth with Oscar. The rails on that also played properly. I then went and talked to Oscar later that night, when they were packing up the booth, and thanked him also for being involved with Brunswick, and begged him to get them back in the game. He said they are working on some stuff. I also said these rails play perfect, they are not boingy like the "other" brand. He agreed completely.
In the Predator booth, the pro I talked to was Tyler. He also agreed the rails of the Predator played proper and not "boingy".
I'm glad there are more choices now. I'll agree that Diamond is probably built better to last many decades. But that might come into play in 30 years. What you get bad from Diamond "on day one" is boingy rails. I'd rather have a table that might die at 30 years, but have 30 good years. Then a table the will last 75 years, with 75 bad years of play.
I'm glad there are more choices now. I'll agree that Diamond is probably built better to last many decades. But that might come into play in 30 years. What you get bad from Diamond "on day one" is boingy rails. I'd rather have a table that might die at 30 years, but have 30 good years. Then a table the will last 75 years, with 75 bad years of play.
Oscar is gracious and will not disagree with you, especially in that setting. Didn't Oscar swap out the Gold Crowns in his room for Diamonds? I know he recently added a couple Predator tables. Most likely so he could practice for Predator events.
Isn't Tyler sponsored by Predator? Do you really think he's going to say a Diamond is a better table while in his sponsor's booth. C'mon, man. You're smarter than that.
Look, I'm not a big Diamond fan, but Diamonds are better made tables than the Kim Steel (Predator). By a country mile. That's not an option, it's a fact. I get you don't like the way Diamond rails play, but to say the Kim Steel table is better than a Diamond is absurd.
Ask Shane, Shaw and any other top pro and they will tell you Diamond is a superior table.
I was talking player to player level, not marketing represetnative level. I respect their opinions.
I have my own opioinins. It's visible with the naked eye how the balls come off the rails. Any banger can see it.
Like I agreed with, the longevity of the Diamond is probably better. But there is also such a thing as overbuilt. If the Predator is good enough, then it's good enough. SAM has been around for probably 40 or 50 years. They are all over Europe. I don't think they fall apart. Probably more like mechanics in the USA when SAM made Kim-Steel was around drop the screws and then never find them.
They are marketing representatives in the setting you approached them in.
PoolPlayerNNJ
Member
Well, I am far from an "expert" pool player, nor am I a pool table expert for that matter. However, I've played on a lot of tables, in a lot of venues, over the course of forty years. I do know a thing or three about "construction" in general, from my professional life, friends, experience, etc. That said, my opinion may count for nothing at all. However, I had a GC (III, I think) growing up. We had the table for over 10 years. Not pool room use, but a lot. Only one in the neighborhood, LOL. That, at the time, was the best table on the market. Now, when I started playing a lot, all around the tri-state area, going to famous and shady pool rooms, LOL, and throughout my lifetime, I've got to see a lot of tables and played on a lot as well. I've also seen a lot of tables unassembled, taken apart, etc., and looked at their construction, how they are made, etc.
That said, in general, the early GC's -- those tables were tanks. Ver solid, built extremely well, quality materials and design, from what I could tell and in my amatuer opinion. They were the commonplace -- and the gold standard -- in most pool rooms I went to in the 80's and 90's. I felt they played true. I am not that high-level player where I can pick apart and critique the intricacies or nuances of the table. When Diamond started getting popular, I saw a lot of their tables, and I knew a guy who was opening a pool room in NJ (about 25 plus years ago). He decided to go with Diamond (a few different models, I don't remember which ones). I saw the tables when they arrived, watched them assembled. They looked like good tables, built well, good material, solid -- but they did not seem to be on the same construction level as the comparative GC. I believe all the Diamond models he picked were less expensive. I don't remember what he told the prices were. But I remember back then, when a high-end pool room opened up in Englewood, NJ, and Jersey Mel opened his pool room in South Jersey, and another high-end pool room opened out in Western NJ (I forgot where) they all went with Brunswick.
Now, I've played on a lot of Diamonds over the past twenty, maybe 25 years or so. Don't get me wrong, their top of the line table(s) are good tables. Quality. Play well. I don't know if they measure of to today's GC. I have no idea. This Predator table here, I never played on it, new saw it. But from the pictures, the construction does not seem up to GC level. Thanks.
That said, in general, the early GC's -- those tables were tanks. Ver solid, built extremely well, quality materials and design, from what I could tell and in my amatuer opinion. They were the commonplace -- and the gold standard -- in most pool rooms I went to in the 80's and 90's. I felt they played true. I am not that high-level player where I can pick apart and critique the intricacies or nuances of the table. When Diamond started getting popular, I saw a lot of their tables, and I knew a guy who was opening a pool room in NJ (about 25 plus years ago). He decided to go with Diamond (a few different models, I don't remember which ones). I saw the tables when they arrived, watched them assembled. They looked like good tables, built well, good material, solid -- but they did not seem to be on the same construction level as the comparative GC. I believe all the Diamond models he picked were less expensive. I don't remember what he told the prices were. But I remember back then, when a high-end pool room opened up in Englewood, NJ, and Jersey Mel opened his pool room in South Jersey, and another high-end pool room opened out in Western NJ (I forgot where) they all went with Brunswick.
Now, I've played on a lot of Diamonds over the past twenty, maybe 25 years or so. Don't get me wrong, their top of the line table(s) are good tables. Quality. Play well. I don't know if they measure of to today's GC. I have no idea. This Predator table here, I never played on it, new saw it. But from the pictures, the construction does not seem up to GC level. Thanks.
Well you have to read between the lines.
“Diamond ruined pool”= Translation, I don’t have the capacity to adjust for rail speed or banking on anything but a GC.
Yeah they are butt fkn ugly no where near the durability of a diamond either
Am I the only one that remembers playing in the derby 20+ years ago when Diamond unveiled the smart table, and watched balls flying up in the air off the table of any bank shot with some pace and bouncing straight out on angle banks?
Groupie apologists can make up any excuse they want.
Those tables sucked something awful and it was embarrassing that professionals had to play on those pieces of junk at almost every tournament for years before they even began to addressed the rail issue.
But pool being as broke as it is, professionals have no choice but to endorse anything dumping money or product into pool, just like the Sardo Rack fiasco.
The players know its a joke.
But if they have to play on a piece of junk cause that’s the only shot to make a living, they will shut up like good obedient sheep.
Red label Blue label.
Probably the same rails with a different color on that piece of metal.
Diamonds will ALWAYS suck.
Groupie apologists can make up any excuse they want.
Those tables sucked something awful and it was embarrassing that professionals had to play on those pieces of junk at almost every tournament for years before they even began to addressed the rail issue.
But pool being as broke as it is, professionals have no choice but to endorse anything dumping money or product into pool, just like the Sardo Rack fiasco.
The players know its a joke.
But if they have to play on a piece of junk cause that’s the only shot to make a living, they will shut up like good obedient sheep.
Red label Blue label.
Probably the same rails with a different color on that piece of metal.
Diamonds will ALWAYS suck.
@rexus31
One more comment about your post where you said Shaw quit his match because the tables were so crooked. That was the first event they were in the USA. Predator had worked with SAM to make the 9' tables ship assembled for quick tournament setup (like Diamond of course), and it was a new design they were testing. It was not the decades old frame design SAM had from before. Yes there were problems. Karim addressed that there were problems publicly and said he would improve the table.
The next tournaments until today, I don't recall a single complaint by a pro. I guess they fixed those problems. So I think your post is taken out of context on that first batch of tables.
In fact, when complaints are made about the Predator table today, its always that first event that people bring up, and that picture of the cracked laminate, where the table was most likely dropped on its side.
One more comment about your post where you said Shaw quit his match because the tables were so crooked. That was the first event they were in the USA. Predator had worked with SAM to make the 9' tables ship assembled for quick tournament setup (like Diamond of course), and it was a new design they were testing. It was not the decades old frame design SAM had from before. Yes there were problems. Karim addressed that there were problems publicly and said he would improve the table.
The next tournaments until today, I don't recall a single complaint by a pro. I guess they fixed those problems. So I think your post is taken out of context on that first batch of tables.
In fact, when complaints are made about the Predator table today, its always that first event that people bring up, and that picture of the cracked laminate, where the table was most likely dropped on its side.
Back then D'mond only made the Pro and they are built as well as any GC made. Biggest reason D'mond has taken over is simple: as a company they give a shit about the game. They are heavily involved in both the pro and am levels of play. B'wick bailed yrs ago and just sells tables and does nothing else. I've heard the new owners have big plans to get more involved so lets wait and see. I'm not even going to comment on that Pred. crap.
Wow. Another knock-artist with no knowledge. How refreshing. When you actually LEARN the difference in tables get back with us.
There's two 7'GC bar boxes at a bar in Vegas Chinatown. I spent several hours on them, they played great. I didn't notice much difference between them and a Diamond except the pocket size and shelf.
Jersey Mel, I miss that guy. We had a great time when we played in Lodi.