Pro One

If you check out the glossary, Stan covers different bridge distances based on CB/OB distance. Seems more objective that way and easier to teach.

You can also keep a static bridge distance and alter the arc of your pivot (i.e. "effective pivot point", as Dr. Dave calls it) based on CB/OB distance. You do this by moving your tip along the OB plane -- so you're moving your cue from the tip-back (so the pivot point works itself out).

For me, that's as objective as it gets. I know Dr. Dave calls that "feel"--- but what's objective and what's feel is based solely on one's understanding of the information and his/her proficiency with executing the information. When that doesn't make sense and someone can't execute-- they guess -- and then call it feel. When you KNOW - you don't guess - and it's objective.

If you come across a shot and you're not sure what to do--- mark it off. Try it with A/B/C targets and both pivot directions. As Stan mentions in the glossary, with extremely close shots, you might have to go to edge-to-1/8th for some angles. One of the setups will pocket the ball (assuming it's not a ferris wheel carnival shot). Store the result. It really doesn't take a REAL long time to reduce ball pocketing to a few options. You just have to practice and stick with the info. It took me a few months, but then again--- I didn't have any instructional DVD haha.

Dave

Quick Question To Anyone Familiar With Stans Version Of CTE

Just double checking to see if I'm doing the CTE part right.

If I'm cutting an object ball to the right and:

If my visuals are are ccb to lobe, and rcbe to aim point c.

When I drop down with 1 tip right of center on cue ball,
should I be aiming at point c on the object ball before I pivot back to center cue ball?

It seems that would be correct, but I didn't hear it stated on the dvd.
Of course, the fact that they are called aim points might mean that,
but I want to be sure before moving ahead.

Thanks

.

bes said:

I had no previous experience with any aiming systems (except ghost ball), so this is all new. I go the video and have watched the CTE part a couple times.

I'm totally confused. I HAVE to be missing something. Maybe several somethings.

There seems to be no actual, specific reference, adjustment, or alignment with the pocket or whatever target is desired - save for initially sighting towards the far (away from target) side of the ball. Is this correct? I assume it isn't, but can't figure out what I'm missing.

Question/example: Say you line up a shot where the cue and object balls are 1 diamond off the long rail and 1 diamond apart. Let's say the object ball is 1 diamond from the short rail, which leaves you a 45 degree cut. I can't seem to make it work, but, lets say you (or I) line up CTE, find the Edge to "C" line, line up your cue (with 1/2 tip offset), do the pivot, then drive the object ball into the center of the pocket.

Now move both balls back a diamond farther from the target. As I see it, you'll HAVE to make some significant adjustment, since a 45 degree cut will result in a miss (about a diamond off). You'll need to end up with a cut angle of about 25.6 degrees to make this shot (if my geometry is right).

What adjustments are made, when, and how to end up with such a significantly different result. The half tip pivot is consistent - roughly 2 degrees with a 6" bridge length. The angle of the line from the edge to "C" (or "A" if cutting the other way) won't change (as I understand it), since the balls are the same distance apart.

I know I'm missing something big, but can't figure it out. I'll watch the video some more, but would really like some help...

bes
p.s. I would LOVE for this to work for me. My eyes aren't getting younger, so any aiming help will be great. Right now, my brain hurts...

Click to expand...

bes,

I setup your two shots and made the first one with B and a right Cte pivot. I made the second shot with C(A) and a right pivot. As Dave (SpiderWebComm) explained, you must flatten (less arc) your pivot when the balls are close together or shorten your bridge to match close-up work.

Stan mentions this and provides a glossary in the dvd, but experience will be the best teacher. Cte is counter intuitive to ghost ballers, parallel line and double the distance shooters at first. They look for the angle instead of what the cue ball and object ball relationship is telling them.

Cte's major contribution is that it lines you up correctly for each shot if you do it right. Your eyes are getting in the right position to see what all the pros already do. They might not realize it, but their final setup is what you have learned and have specific aiming points. They get there naturally...and so did you on those nights you were in dead whack. Problem is the next night you were dogging it again and they weren't!

For all you 90/90 shooters, did you know you can use a half tip pivot and still pocket balls? 90/90 and Cte employ all the same principles. They line you up correctly for the shot. The difference is rhat 90/90's points (A,B,C) show up on the cue ball as you sight the shot. Like a reverse Cte.

A while back 3andstop introduced ferrule aiming and many disregarded its possibilities. It, too, puts your eyes in the correct position...a post pivot position. There are small adjustments using it, but if you get down on the shot and check out your center to edge line, you might be surprised. You are post pivot and can see A,B,and C. I use it for all shots and banks, no problem. The only shot I don't use it for is straight ins. I don't need any system for those. SVB uses a variation probably.

Ease up on the geometry, use your visuals and Cte will be a lot friendlier.

Best,
Mike

Redneck Jim said:

Just double checking to see if I'm doing the CTE part right.

If I'm cutting an object ball to the right and:

If my visuals are are ccb to lobe, and rcbe to aim point c.

When I drop down with 1 tip right of center on cue ball,
should I be aiming at point c on the object ball before I pivot back to center cue ball?

It seems that would be correct, but I didn't hear it stated on the dvd.
Of course, the fact that they are called aim points might mean that,
but I want to be sure before moving ahead.

Thanks

.

Click to expand...

Jim,

You are lined up for the shot when your visuals are correct. Your next step is to use the visuals to naturally get your body lined up where it needs to be. In this alignment, the pivot is just the mechanical finishing movement you do to pocket the ball. Your tip isn't aimed at anything except the cue ball for your half tip pivot. You have already lined up. Pivot and pull the trigger.

Remember...Lock, your visuals line up your body...and Load, you pivot and fire.

Best,
Mike

bes said:

I had no previous experience with any aiming systems (except ghost ball), so this is all new. I go the video and have watched the CTE part a couple times.

I'm totally confused. I HAVE to be missing something. Maybe several somethings.

There seems to be no actual, specific reference, adjustment, or alignment with the pocket or whatever target is desired - save for initially sighting towards the far (away from target) side of the ball. Is this correct? I assume it isn't, but can't figure out what I'm missing.
.........

I know I'm missing something big, but can't figure it out. I'll watch the video some more, but would really like some help...

bes
p.s. I would LOVE for this to work for me. My eyes aren't getting younger, so any aiming help will be great. Right now, my brain hurts...

Click to expand...

I have watched chapters 1-10 about 10 times and am still lost. I am right handed and very much left eye dominate which probably doesn't help.

8up said:

I have watched chapters 1-10 about 10 times and am still lost. I am right handed and very much left eye dominate which probably doesn't help.

Click to expand...

Shouldn't matter as I am too. Keep fooling with it, it will come.

8up said:

I have watched chapters 1-10 about 10 times and am still lost. I am right handed and very much left eye dominate which probably doesn't help.

Click to expand...

8up,

I use both eyes when I shoot with Cte. You don't have to move your head to sight both cue ball edges. Eye dominance problems shouldn't bother you as much if you allow your right eye to sight the right center to edge line.

Players who have a really strong dominant eye will have to learn to use the weaker eye to sight the "aiming points". And players that use only one eye to aim, can still employ the other eye. You are just setting up your alignment, not aiming.

Remember, Cte is simply letting your eyes send the message to your body where to line up to make the shot. You are not aiming at the object ball. You are setting up visually. Your eyes make the necessary adjustments as you gain experience.

Best,
Mike

LAMas said:

There are two shots that don't require a tip shift or pivot...the straight in shot and the 30 degree cut angle shot where you aim the center of the CB to the edge of the OB (CTE). You may cut this less than 30 degrees due to impact/skid.

Click to expand...

you didnt get that from the dvd? a strait in shot can be pivoted from the left or right and yes there is a pivot on a 30 degree shot lamas. Are you talking about the dvd or your own experience?

i just finished watching the dvd and im pretty sure i understand it all, but i will watch it again to see if i missed stuff.

Guys believe it or not this dvd could not have been made easier, so keep trying and figure out the manual cte section first and dont rush into learning the banks yet and the pro1 pivot will come easy after.

Those reference points really take the adjustments out of the system, like bridge length and stepping into shots at the exact angle and hoping you have it right, like i was doing lol I have been using this almost exact system with out any reference points for a while.

bes said:

I had no previous experience with any aiming systems (except ghost ball), so this is all new. I go the video and have watched the CTE part a couple times.

I'm totally confused. I HAVE to be missing something. Maybe several somethings.

There seems to be no actual, specific reference, adjustment, or alignment with the pocket or whatever target is desired - save for initially sighting towards the far (away from target) side of the ball. Is this correct? I assume it isn't, but can't figure out what I'm missing.

Pocket pretty much is not needed in the actual alignment or set up, but you do need to to know what pocket you want to shoot at and that will tell you whether its a left or right pivot and what reference points to use, if im understanding you correctly?

Question/example: Say you line up a shot where the cue and object balls are 1 diamond off the long rail and 1 diamond apart. Let's say the object ball is 1 diamond from the short rail, which leaves you a 45 degree cut. I can't seem to make it work, but, lets say you (or I) line up CTE, find the Edge to "C" line, line up your cue (with 1/2 tip offset), do the pivot, then drive the object ball into the center of the pocket.

I am assuming you are pivoting in the proper direction, try the shot with an A then a B reference point. I think the reference points are a huge part of this system. Hard is shooting this system with out refrences like i did!

Now move both balls back a diamond farther from the target. As I see it, you'll HAVE to make some significant adjustment, since a 45 degree cut will result in a miss (about a diamond off). You'll need to end up with a cut angle of about 25.6 degrees to make this shot (if my geometry is right).

proper pivot and again reference points, you have to figure them out!

What adjustments are made, when, and how to end up with such a significantly different result. The half tip pivot is consistent - roughly 2 degrees with a 6" bridge length. The angle of the line from the edge to "C" (or "A" if cutting the other way) won't change (as I understand it), since the balls are the same distance apart.

Time on the table will answer a lot of questions.

I know I'm missing something big, but can't figure it out. I'll watch the video some more, but would really like some help...

bes
p.s. I would LOVE for this to work for me. My eyes aren't getting younger, so any aiming help will be great. Right now, my brain hurts...

Click to expand...

If you give me a time line from the dvd i can help you more if you have more problems.

troi said:

Personally I found that full, 3/4 and 1/2 ball hits and banks came to me very easily using this approach. Backwards cuts were a little tough for me to visualze so that is where I am currently spending my time.

-T

Click to expand...

Agreed. I have had some trouble getting into the correct line with backwards cuts and when I have to site the L OB edge and point C. Any pointer would be appreciated. When you do it right though, it seems to work very well. I can usually tell right away when I get down for the shot if I have done it correctly, but the certain shots have been very frustrating.

On back cuts remember you have to switch over your pivot to the other side.If the shot has to be to the left to be made you have to pivot from the left to right.

Do you know what your having problems on, is it pivot direction,cte line or reference points?

This is a big point and always remember this - you have to learn when you need to switch your pivot to the other side by the degree of the shot. a right cut shot to the right corner is not always a left to right pivot and will be a right to left pivot sometimes.


if you can put a diagram from from that cue table i can help u out more.

champ2107 said:

you didnt get that from the dvd? a strait in shot can be pivoted from the left or right and yes there is a pivot on a 30 degree shot lamas. Are you talking about the dvd or your own experience?

Click to expand...

You are correct sir.

Mikjary said:
"The only shot I don't use it for is straight ins." - post 183

I have been following CTE for years and others have said that the 30 degree CTE line doesn't require a shift or pivot. What ever works for you.

AtLarge said:
"In Chapter 10, Stan contrasts the alignments for the Quarters System versus CTE. He notes that when using the Quarters System for a 30-degree cut to the left, for example, you would simply align straight on the CTEL."...post 154.

Ch:wink:eers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuNUpQ8kRMY&feature=channel

at 1:38 there is a ccb to lobe and xxxx to obc with a left to right basic pivot, exactly like i said a couple months ago. I also said i can see some pro's shooting this when they are at the right angles on vid on some shots. You guys that bought the dvd should see this clearly now I had to put this back up and should post it in that other thread about pro's not sharing there tips. You think JA wasnt fibbing when Hal asked him about cte? haha

mantis99 said:

Agreed. I have had some trouble getting into the correct line with backwards cuts and when I have to site the L OB edge and point C. Any pointer would be appreciated. When you do it right though, it seems to work very well. I can usually tell right away when I get down for the shot if I have done it correctly, but the certain shots have been very frustrating.

Click to expand...

I think that it is usefull to recognize the angle created by one line from the pocket/target (rail) through the OB center and another line from the CB to the OB. These two lines create an angle with the OB at the point/vertex. Whether the shot is down the rail or a back cut away from the pocket/target, if the angle for the shot down the rail is the same as the back cut...then use the same set up left or right etc.

As you remember the cut angle produced by the secondary quarter points or "A, B or C" on the DVD (for you), you can use the secondary points that match the angle described above.

I hope:wink: this helps.

champ2107 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuNUpQ8kRMY&feature=channel

at 1:38 there is a ccb to lobe and xxxx to obc with a left to right basic pivot, exactly like i said a couple months ago. I also said i can see some pro's shooting this when they are at the right angles on vid on some shots. You guys that bought the dvd should see this clearly now I had to put this back up and should post it in that other thread about pro's not sharing there tips. You think JA wasnt fibbing when Hal asked him about cte? haha

Click to expand...

what do you see at 1:41 on the 8Ball, a situation that would definitely call for an aiming system if you were using one.

Joe T said:

what do you see at 1:41 on the 8Ball, a situation that would definitely call for an aiming system if you were using one.

Click to expand...

I see Johnny carefully finding the intended contact point on the OB, something not done when using CTE/Pro1. And he did the same thing on the previous ball, too (2-ball, I think).

I think i even see a left pivot on the 2 with a c reference, but i could be imagining it lol. I see him killen time until he gets the courage to shoot the 8 ball, he knows its a very thin cut which makes looking at the contact point pretty much a waste of time. He has a arsenal of pool knowledge floating in his head, that combined with his natural skill makes him Johny Archer, world beater!

I make that shot with a left pivot using b as a reference or it maybe a 1/8 overlap shot, I have never used the 1/8 for very thin cuts, that and the reference points are the only thing i have never used with this system, but everything else is identical to the way i shoot cte

Ok I'm watching this for the second time cause it went right over my head the first time. And here is why: Stan has just described in chapter 3 how to visualize center to edge and edge to center [target b]. Cool got that. Then he says Now after adjusting my stance a little I now see the edge of the cue ball aimed at the right quarter of the object ball. We will call that aiming point c. At that point he loses me because he doesn't explain why he just adjusted his stance and why he has to have the other aiming point. And without this understanding I can't fathom what Stevie or Landon is saying when he explains a shot being point a b or c.
I'll save my questions about the pivot until I understand where I'm aiming. Maybe I won't have to ask.

pulzcul said:

Ok I'm watching this for the second time cause it went right over my head the first time. And here is why: Stan has just described in chapter 3 how to visualize center to edge and edge to center [target b]. Cool got that. Then he says Now after adjusting my stance a little I now see the edge of the cue ball aimed at the right quarter of the object ball. We will call that aiming point c. At that point he loses me because he doesn't explain why he just adjusted his stance and why he has to have the other aiming point. And without this understanding I can't fathom what Stevie or Landon is saying when he explains a shot being point a b or c.
I'll save my questions about the pivot until I understand where I'm aiming. Maybe I won't have to ask.

Click to expand...

LEFT CUTS:

Aim point A: Thick cut angles
Aim point B: Thin cut angles
Aim point 1/8: VERY thin cut angles

RIGHT CUTS:

Aim point C: Thick cut angles
Aim point B: Thin cut angles
Aim point 1/8: VERY thin cut angles

So, in a GENERAL rule of thumb (this is a variable that is affected by playing conditions, speed, etc), if it's less than a 1/2 ball cut -- it's thick. If it's more than a 1/2 ball cut, it's thin. The direction of the pivot also can affect this based on the playing conditions. Meaning, for a thick left cut that's near borderline... it might be edge to A (left pivot) or edge to B (right pivot). There were some shots that were listed as (not obvious pivots). MOST shots are totally obvious. Some borderline shots are not. One direction will look perfect -- the other not close.

People always ask "Well, how do you KNOW?" Easy--- setup and pivot in one direction. If it's not right, the other way will work. Just reset. It will not take a LONG time to just KNOW. FAR less time than hitting a million balls. I'd guess less than 1000 and you'll be tuned in. So, when someone says, "Well gee whiz--- this take PRACTICE and if you're gonna PRACTICE why not just use ghost ball?" Well... because it doesn't take 20 years of practice - maybe just a few months to perfect--- that's why.

Dave

p.s. Order from thickest to thinnest:

LEFT:

A: right pivot
A: left pivot
B: right pivot
B: left pivot
1/8: right pivot
1/8: left pivot

RIGHT:

C: left pivot
C: right pivot
B: left pivot
B: right pivot
1/8: left pivot
1/8: right pivot

Right off the bat you should be able to eliminate 1/2 of these for 90% of all shots just based on looking at the shot. An experienced pool player should be able to see if it's an A, B or C alignment and just think is this a L/R pivot? As you progress, you'll always pivot from the same side and just make an alignment adjustment (or cue angle adjustment) to compensate. Cue angle adjustment meaning, if it's a right pivot...pivot beyond center to the left pivot starting position. Notice the angle of attack for your cue. Whenever you need a right pivot, start from this cue angle and back-pivot to center Left handers, do the opposite.

Pros who pivot-- never pivot from the unnatural side. That's why Bustamante is always starts at the left CB edge for each shot. You'll never see him on the right edge of the CB as a starting point.