PRO ONE DVD: Answering Questions

M

Murdoch7627

Frank Reid aka "Fly Man"
Silver Member
"]Did you ask Stan if it was OK to post information about his CTE/Pro One product ON YOUR WEBSITE?[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

Dr. Dave,

I too want to know, did you ask Stan if it was OK to "publish" detailed information about his CTE/Pro One DVD on your website? If not then please explain why not. I know you understand the concept of professional courtesy. So why not in this case?
 
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SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Jal said:
"Bloody retard?" "STFU?"

Whatever your grievances, Dave, for someone who's put forth as much muddle-headed mush as you have for so long, stuff that doesn't even qualify as geometry babble, to use phrases like "bloody retard" in any context, much less toward him, is, as they say, beyond the pale, and in spades!

My god, I hope you at least had some serious qualms about writing that.......but I fear not.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hey Jim--- Let me put it this way brother... anyone who thinks they're "helping" the author of a DVD by posting its complete content on their website is a bloody retard. Get it? Got it. Good.

I'd say "creep" or "plagiarizer," but I thought retard fit because I honestly believes he's "Helping" Stan. So, I wanted to help him out a little. The fact you'd think I'd have a tiny qualm about anything when your boy is flat-out screwing Stan is laughable. The fact you'd even stick up for someone like that shows your true colors.

There might be people here who worry about the "politics" of azb--- but I dont. I call it like I see it. When I noticed Dr. Plagiarizer posted Stan's content today and plopped it on his website, I couldn't contain myself and had to call a spade a spade. Wanna chime in with anything else Mr. Helper?


Edit:

Why wouldn't I just buy a copy of Power 1Pkt by Scott Frost and post all the primary bullet points on my blog (I'd NEVER do so - but even reading such a thing would make Scott and Lenny blow their lids - right)? Why wouldn't I take each DVD that every instructor on here ever made and post explicit details to my blog such that no one would have to buy the DVD? Could I legally get away with it-- sure. If people thought it was "OK" for others to do this, it would destroy the future of our education because the guys/gals with the "knowledge" would never invest the time/money into developing an education product in fear Dr. Plagiarizer (or someone else who thought it was OK) would post everything and make it impossible to make it worth their effort.

I don't make a living in the pool sector, so I'm just stating my opinion on what I know is right and what is professional courtesy. I'm just an outspoken "fan." The guys who should be bothered are guys like Joe Tucker, RandyG, Geno, Scott Frost/Lenny and other instructors who create original pool educational content. But hey, if no one else cares that a precedent is being set to post original content on blogs / private websites -- then I guess I don't care either.
 
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iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just tried reading the info on dr dave's site now that Spidey mentioned it is on there. I would have had NO idea it was there otherwise.

This sh!t is so complicated, you guys have nothing to worry about! I highly doubt a paragraph and a table by dr dave is going to prevent Stan from making a ROI.

If anything, Dr Daves constant questioning of CTE over the years has caused increased attention to CTE, and people to buy the dvd, that never would have otherwise.
 
A

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
SpiderWebComm said:
Just between us ladies, it would have been nice if you would have given a fellow pool instructor a little time to get an ROI on his large investment before posting his entire Pro1 content on your website. ...
Click to expand...

SpiderWebComm said:
Hey Jim--- Let me put it this way brother... anyone who thinks they're "helping" the author of a DVD by posting its complete content on their website is a bloody retard. Get it? Got it. Good. ...
Click to expand...

Dr. Dave posted about 8 sentences plus a small table. Do you really think this is the "complete content" of the DVD? If it were, then the DVD would be a total rip-off, because Stan could have given all of us his complete lesson in an equivalently brief written post on AzB.

But I don't believe that Stan's DVD is a rip-off. Nor do I believe that Dr. Dave's write-up now makes the DVD superfluous. The DVD is an hour and a half of verbal and visual material, not just 8 written sentences plus a table.

In the time since Stan's DVD was released, far more has been written about it than Dr. Dave wrote. You, Spidey, have personally written a lot more than Dr. Dave. Here's just one of your posts that gives a good amount of detail about the method: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2833281&postcount=200. And you have answered many questions with specifics on how to apply the method. Many other people also have contributed to the effort to try to unravel some of the mysteries of the method.

So I think nasty name-calling on this isn't really appropriate.
 
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pablocruz

pablocruz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For those of you with the DVD, please contact Stan. He will be more than willing to work with you!!
 
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C

champ2107

Banned
i agree with you :p maybe they should put together a Frequently Asked Questions page on stans site for some guys with a members login or something like that? unless u have had cte experience prior to the dvd you must have patients! one nite you may think you figured it out and then the next time u will say WTF!
 
JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
CTE/Pro One not CTE.

SpiderWebComm said:
Hey Jim--- Let me put it this way brother... anyone who thinks they're "helping" the author of a DVD by posting its complete content on their website is a bloody retard. Get it? Got it. Good.

I'd say "creep" or "plagiarizer," but I thought retard fit because I honestly believes he's "Helping" Stan. So, I wanted to help him out a little. The fact you'd think I'd have a tiny qualm about anything when your boy is flat-out screwing Stan is laughable. The fact you'd even stick up for someone like that shows your true colors.

There might be people here who worry about the "politics" of azb--- but I dont. I call it like I see it. When I noticed Dr. Plagiarizer posted Stan's content today and plopped it on his website, I couldn't contain myself and had to call a spade a spade. Wanna chime in with anything else Mr. Helper?


Edit:

Why wouldn't I just buy a copy of Power 1Pkt by Scott Frost and post all the primary bullet points on my blog (I'd NEVER do so - but even reading such a thing would make Scott and Lenny blow their lids - right)? Why wouldn't I take each DVD that every instructor on here ever made and post explicit details to my blog such that no one would have to buy the DVD? Could I legally get away with it-- sure. If people thought it was "OK" for others to do this, it would destroy the future of our education because the guys/gals with the "knowledge" would never invest the time/money into developing an education product in fear Dr. Plagiarizer (or someone else who thought it was OK) would post everything and make it impossible to make it worth their effort.

I don't make a living in the pool sector, so I'm just stating my opinion on what I know is right and what is professional courtesy. I'm just an outspoken "fan." The guys who should be bothered are guys like Joe Tucker, RandyG, Geno, Scott Frost/Lenny and other instructors who create original pool educational content. But hey, if no one else cares that a precedent is being set to post original content on blogs / private websites -- then I guess I don't care either.
Click to expand...

This is the point I have been making all along. I knew that it was just a matter of time before Stan's CTE/Pro One was discussed openly and honestly but to have it plastered on Dr. Dave's website and especially so soon after the DVD came out is unconscionable.

Spider Web Comm, I agree that it is wrong for Dr. Dave to post Stan's content on his website.

I also state that for ANYONE to take CTE as it was originally known and morph Stan's information into it is totally wrong.

Stan is the one who stuck his neck out and put in the thousands of hours as you have mentioned, creating CTE/Pro One.

IT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG for anyone to now say that CTE had all of these properties that Stan defined and refined as CTE/Pro One. If anyone uses his information in their classes, on the Internet, in publications or any other manner, it should be known as CTE/Pro One, not CTE.

Your contributions toward CTE/Pro One haven't gone unnoticed either!

You've got a pretty strong flame thrower but I know how it can be when people make out like they're not listening or don't understand.

This is Stan Shuffett's product, not Dr. Dave, not any of the other instructors, not anyone in this forum. The contributors have been acknowledged in Stan's video. Once again, the information that Stan CREATED, is his information and the product is called CTE/Pro One and anytime that this information is used, that is what it should be called.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
AtLarge said:
Dr. Dave posted about 8 sentences plus a small table. Do you really think this is the "complete content" of the DVD? If it were, then the DVD would be a total rip-off, because Stan could have given all of us his complete lesson in an equivalently brief written post on AzB.

But I don't believe that Stan's DVD is a rip-off. Nor do I believe that Dr. Dave's write-up now makes the DVD superfluous. The DVD is an hour and a half of verbal and visual material, not just 8 written sentences plus a table.

In the time since Stan's DVD was released, far more has been written about it than Dr. Dave wrote. You, Spidey, have personally written a lot more than Dr. Dave. Here's just one of your posts that gives a good amount of detail about the method: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2833281&postcount=200. And you have answered many questions with specifics on how to apply the method. Many other people also have contributed to the effort to try to unravel some of the mysteries of the method.

So I think nasty name-calling on this isn't really appropriate.
Click to expand...
Atlarge,

Thank you for your post. I also want to thank others for their supportive posts, PMS, and e-mails.

I agree with Atlarge's appraisal. The brief description on my website summarizing Stan's version of CTE (which is the basis for Pro One), does not diminish the value of Stan's DVD. If anything, as I've pointed out before, I think it adds value. It provides a concise summary for people to use as a reference after they view the DVD. IMO, the DVD is not very "informational" ... it is more "demonstrational." In fact, it was very difficult for me to figure out the "information" from the DVD. I had to view it several times, taking notes and making drawings for all of the examples to figure out the pattern. That's why I think I have "added value" to the DVD.

IMO, the real value of the DVD is in the audio/visual explanations, illustrations, demonstrations, and examples.

I thought the purpose for this thread was to discuss and ask questions about CTE/Pro-One to develop a better understanding of the approach and how it is applied. How can this be done if people don't have a basic definition of the method? I think the brief summary on my website (and in this thread) does a reasonable job of explaining Stan's version of CTE, along with several other versions that have been proposed in the past. If somebody wants to learn more about Stan's version, see demonstrations by good shooters, see lots of examples, and learn how to set up these examples on their own table, they will want to purchase Stan's DVD.

I'm sorry Spidey and Joey think I have somehow been professionally irresponsible. Obviously, I strongly disagree.

Regards,
Dave
 
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iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JoeyA said:
This is the point I have been making all along. I knew that it was just a matter of time before Stan's CTE/Pro One was discussed openly and honestly but to have it plastered on Dr. Dave's website and especially so soon after the DVD came out is unconscionable.

Spider Web Comm, I agree that it is wrong for Dr. Dave to post Stan's content on his website.

I also state that for ANYONE to take CTE as it was originally known and morph Stan's information into it is totally wrong.

Stan is the one who stuck his neck out and put in the thousands of hours as you have mentioned, creating CTE/Pro One.

IT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG for anyone to now say that CTE had all of these properties that Stan defined and refined as CTE/Pro One. If anyone uses his information in their classes, on the Internet, in publications or any other manner, it should be known as CTE/Pro One, not CTE.

Your contributions toward CTE/Pro One haven't gone unnoticed either!

You've got a pretty strong flame thrower but I know how it can be when people make out like they're not listening or don't understand.

This is Stan Shuffett's product, not Dr. Dave, not any of the other instructors, not anyone in this forum. The contributors have been acknowledged in Stan's video. Once again, the information that Stan CREATED, is his information and the product is called CTE/Pro One and anytime that this information is used, that is what it should be called.
Click to expand...

If Stan doesn't want his flavor called CTE, he should not have named it CTE/Pro One. Thats on him.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
If Stan doesn't want his flavor called CTE, he should not have named it CTE/Pro One. Thats on him.
Click to expand...
I think all CTE methods can be described by the following definition (from my CTE resouce page):

CTE (Center-To-Edge): an "align-and-pivot" pre-shot routine and "aiming system" that uses a line through the center of the CB and outside edge of the OB as a reference. There are several different versions and interpretations of CTE, but they are all based on establishing an initial "alignment" and then "pivoting" to the final aiming-line direction.​

Stan's version of CTE (on which Pro One is based) definitely fits into this category.

Based on my understanding of Pro One, it is not so much an "aiming system" as it is a "level of ability" that one can develop through lots of practice with Stan's version (or any version) of CTE, where bridge hand placement and accurate center-ball alignment come naturally without a mechanical fixed-bridge pivot.

Regards,
Dave
 
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
I think all CTE methods can be described by the following definition (from my CTE resouce page):

CTE (Center-To-Edge): an "align-and-pivot" pre-shot routine and "aiming system" that uses a line through the center of the CB and outside edge of the OB as a reference. There are several different versions and interpretations of CTE, but they are all based on establishing an initial "alignment" and then "pivoting" to the final aiming-line direction.​

Stan's version of CTE (on which Pro One is based) definitely fits into this category.

Based on my understanding of Pro One, it is not so much an "aiming system" as it is a "level of ability" that one can develop through lots of practice with Stan's version (or any version) of CTE, where bridge hand placement and accurate center-ball alignment come naturally without a mechanical fixed-bridge pivot.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Good summation based on someone of your level of play. I mechanically pivot on nearly every shot and I'm locked-in on every shot. Stan covers the bridge position on every shot on that DVD. Between the core chapter and the glossary - everything is there.

What makes you think it's OK to post someone's material on your website without permission? It's ok to provide a review, but to post someone's content without permission is a scumbag move.

Maybe I'll just copy/paste your ENTIRE website onto one of my websites. None of that material is yours, most of it is quoted from players other than yourself (many times without permission), and since it's OK for you to copy everyone's content without permission---- maybe it'll be fun to copy yours. Thanks for putting in the time to make me a nice billiard website.

Dave
 
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pablocruz

pablocruz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JoeyA said:
This is the point I have been making all along. I knew that it was just a matter of time before Stan's CTE/Pro One was discussed openly and honestly but to have it plastered on Dr. Dave's website and especially so soon after the DVD came out is unconscionable.

Spider Web Comm, I agree that it is wrong for Dr. Dave to post Stan's content on his website.

I also state that for ANYONE to take CTE as it was originally known and morph Stan's information into it is totally wrong.

Stan is the one who stuck his neck out and put in the thousands of hours as you have mentioned, creating CTE/Pro One.

IT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG for anyone to now say that CTE had all of these properties that Stan defined and refined as CTE/Pro One. If anyone uses his information in their classes, on the Internet, in publications or any other manner, it should be known as CTE/Pro One, not CTE.

Your contributions toward CTE/Pro One haven't gone unnoticed either!

You've got a pretty strong flame thrower but I know how it can be when people make out like they're not listening or don't understand.

This is Stan Shuffett's product, not Dr. Dave, not any of the other instructors, not anyone in this forum. The contributors have been acknowledged in Stan's video. Once again, the information that Stan CREATED, is his information and the product is called CTE/Pro One and anytime that this information is used, that is what it should be called.
Click to expand...

Nice post JoeyA..There is only one true version of CTE/PRO-ONE and that is by STAN SHUFFETT..Maybe Dave should stick to "DAM" as it seem to be the only original content on his webpage..As a man in your profession Dave you should know about professional courtesy. I'm sure it's extended to you on a daily basis. Maybe you should try a little of your own. You have added no value to CTE/PRO-ONE..You haven't done a summary, you basically rewrote the Man's work in so many words.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
SpiderWebComm said:
Deleted cause Dr. Dave did the right thing
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Spidey,

I've been gone for a few hours, so I didn't see all of your deleted messages and blog postings. I can only assume that they were not very "complimentary."

Regardless, I don't have a clue what you mean by "Dr. Dave did the right thing." I haven't done anything since my last post, which you didn't seem to like very much. By the "right thing," did you mean "didn't respond to any of the recent posts in the thread? If so, then I agree: "I did the right thing." I've learned many times over the many years of CTE debate that it doesn't help to stir the fire when emotions run high.

I still love 'ya man!!! ... in a pool sort of way.

Have a good weekend,
Dave
 
lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
Spidey,

Regardless, I don't have a clue what you mean by "Dr. Dave did the right thing." I haven't done anything since my last post, which you didn't seem to like very much.
Dave
Click to expand...


wow. And here I was about to compliment you on the greatest Jedi Mind Trick of all time.

Lou Figueroa
 
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