Stop making new pool games.

Well I guess I'll have to be the asshole who says: if pool games never changed or evolved, we'd still be playing with 3 balls, shooting with maces on a 12ft table featuring a hoop and a post.

The tables, cues, cushions, chalk, and even the balls have all evolved in response to the variations of the games played as well.

If there were no new games, we'd not have 14.1, 8ball, one pocket or anything like them, so, how are we to know that the future doesn't hold something as good or better than the past?

Now, with all that said, I do agree that no new game is warranted for professional pool to thrive at this point in time. As already stated, I think it would be wiser to go with something that at least a portion of the public (and current players) already understands, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel...

If I were a billionaire I would have a bumper pool tour and make the prizes astronomically high. How entertaining would it be to watch Earl and Dechaine fight it out on a bumper pool table.

cleary said:

And I get it. The equipment has evolved into tables with 6 pockets, but since then... they've only changed the rules and added/subtracted balls. I love 9ball/10ball/1pocket. Hell, I love bank pool. But to grow as a professional sport, all things need to be set aside and focus on one game with ONE SET OF RULES.

Poker is the only thing that comes close to what pool does... but by far Hold'em is the post popular and the bread and butter. Every casino has a hold'em game going. It's the game they pushed to the public because it's the easiest to follow and understand. It's also easy by nature and ANYONE feels like they can get lucky and win... sorta like 9ball.

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And I get it.
One thing we can agree on is the fact that STANDARDIZATION is badly needed.

But standards need to come from a respected authority.

And a respected authority will never be just one person, or one self serving association. It will take a group effort.

And group efforts require cooperation. Which is something that we seem to be sorely lacking in the industry as a whole.

Ask yourself this question... Do you play games to have fun, or do you play games to prove that you are superior? New players will always want to play to have fun. The more options, the more fun. What they don't want is to be in the room with pufferfish. That is discouraging, and that is what will drive them away. Be careful not to limit the scope of your platform as a way of conquering it, it is an illusion.

Don't forget all the practice game variations, i.e., ghost pool, equal offense, Chase, etc.

And I've got modified American 2-Ball and 3-Ball Billiards rules adapted from the British versions - using billiard balls on a regular pool table.
(If anyone wants them send me a direct request.)

:smile:

Could someone make a list of all the games mentioned on this thread. Real or non real.lol
Lets find them all and put them on the list.

Black Jack

cleary said:

And I get it. The equipment has evolved into tables with 6 pockets, but since then... they've only changed the rules and added/subtracted balls. I love 9ball/10ball/1pocket. Hell, I love bank pool. But to grow as a professional sport, all things need to be set aside and focus on one game with ONE SET OF RULES.

Poker is the only thing that comes close to what pool does... but by far Hold'em is the post popular and the bread and butter. Every casino has a hold'em game going. It's the game they pushed to the public because it's the easiest to follow and understand. It's also easy by nature and ANYONE feels like they can get lucky and win... sorta like 9ball.

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Black Jack / 21 I think is the easy game
But can't we keep the beginners away from the table please LOL Every time on on my tier somebody drops out Beacuse they want to change the cards
LOL Or they want to to hold onto their 12 with the dealer showing a face card.

In the spirit of this thread, I give you my new game - Runout 8 Ball:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=316796

And stop making so many different kinds of cars, building different looking houses, different styles of clothes...

I remember this one particular 3-ball game very well.

There's like 8 of us playing, 2 tie, all tie. $2 each person, every inning.

Next thing you know, the pot grew to almost $400. And this lady who just started playing pool about 2 weeks earlier, who could barely hold a cue, broke and made all 3 balls on the break.

So yeah, 3 balls is a great gambling, fun game.

Fatboy said:

3 ball ring games 4-5 handed makes for GREAT gambling. especially when you play 2 tie all tie and double the pot. Start with $1 5 ways, and if 2 tie then all 5 players have to post $2 so there is a $15 pot. then 2 tie again now carry the $15 and add($4X5)=$35 pot etc etc etc.


I seen some 4 figure pots and the champions didnt get the $$$, I did onetimeI won a big one, but got busted before the game was over 6 hours later. I didnt have much to start with, its great gambling. and even better for your game, when you have a medium hard shot thats worth a few hundred $$$'s and if you dog it you have to double down again, you have more pressure than just the price of the shot, cause the post $$$ after the tie can get big-if there is no cap. So you are playing to pot the ball for the payday and so you dont have to post more $$$, in a 5 handed game this is the nuts.


Can we please keep this game? better yet would anyone still play this game, nobody gambles like that anymore. I played this game with champions in it and they aint a lock to win. Get 2 on the pop and dont dog it you might get paid, get all 3 on the pop---> GIN!!!

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Michael-Hoang said:

I remember this one particular 3-ball game very well.

There's like 8 of us playing, 2 tie, all tie. $2 each person, every inning.

Next thing you know, the pot grew to almost $400. And this lady who just started playing pool about 2 weeks earlier, who could barely hold a cue, broke and made all 3 balls on the break.

So yeah, 3 balls is a great gambling, fun game.

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I was sweating a game like this once...started laying 50/1 against all three
on the break.....I ended up paying table time 'cause I was the big winner.

Sure glad that lady wasn't there.

Clearly, Cleary, change is a fact of life. If auto racing never changed, we would not have found the great and popular sport of NASCAR. Now many auto racing fans like drag racing, Sports Car racing, Indy car type racing and the industry flourishes.

When you first heard of my great game of Bonus Ball had been developed, you went out of your way to try and stop progress. You ridiculed it, told people nonsense about it. Fortunately, the top players and the professional players saw merit in my game because they liked the challenge of my game. They liked my concept of a professional league and they like the thought of making some money!

The fact that Larry Chiborak has operated the WPBL like a baboon the last year, does not make Bonus Ball a bad addition to the many games of pool. Eight Ball is great for learning how to hold a cue and pot balls. Nine Ball is not for beginners. Bonus Ball was designed for top players and to my surprise and player that can pot three balls in a row, will also enjoy it!

I play mostly Eight Ball, One Pocket and Bonus Ball. I will play rotation once in awhile but not my favorite unless I practice. I see nothing wrong with having a new game if it has merit. Texas Bumpem, Bumper Pool and all the games that stray from pocketing balls and using other sports ie Poker Pool, Bowling Pool, Golf Pool are all not played seriously by professionals. We probably don't need them but I never heard anyone say to me, I don't watch pool because I play Bumper Pool. Most say that they don't watch pool because it is boring. Period!

New games can be progress and progress is great. Hockey, Football, Baseball have different forms but not professionally. Golf too. 18 holes, 9 holes, hard courses, easy courses and mini-courses. Auto Racing has many professional leagues IRL, Indy Car, NASCAR, NHRA and Forumla One racing and it has flourished. Bonus Ball was designed to be the sport of billiards. It was designed to seperate the boys from the men. Despite Chiborak's poor business decisions, it's a great game and will continue to be played in the future. Nothing wrong with that!

Barry Bremner
Executive VP of the World Wide Sport of Billiards Corporation, Canada
www.playbonusball.com

cleary said:

Please. Stop! There is nothing wrong with the games we already have... infact, we have too many games. Just... please... stop.

7ball, 8ball, 9ball, 10ball, rotation, 1pocket, 14.1, banks, bonusball, texas bumps, one pocket, american rotation, 6pocket GOD DAMNIT!!!!!!... just stop.

I know everyone thinks pool isn't popular because games for this reason or that reason so they think you can change the game and it will work. Let me tell you a little secret. It won't. IT WON'T! You're still bunting around balls on a pool table while the crowd is silent and it's like watching grass grow.

Please, just stop making up new games.

That said, 9ball and 10ball is too easy for pros. 15ball (with 9ball/10ball rules is the answer) lol

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You mad bro?

That's like saying stop making new reality shows, ain't gonna happen. The history of pocket billiards IS a history of "new" games.

9 Ball wasn't even ALLOWED to be published in the rule books for years because it was consider a gambler's game. Same for one pocket finally published some 40-70 years after it was created. 14.1 is about a hundred years old now, new game created by a pro way back then.

10 Ball is a relatively "new" game.

I feel you and I believe I have made similar posts railing against all the new games in the past. Frankly though I am kind of on the side of I don't care at this point and leaning towards it's pretty cool. I mean on one hand it is pretty cool that we can play so many variations inside the same playing space.

I met up with Joe Tucker and played American Rotation. He has a little app that makes scoring a no brainer - it's easy anyway and the game was actually a LOT of fun and required a lot of skill.

People should just do what they do and if something sticks then great if it doesn't then it doesn't. The BCA rule book is full of obscure games.

vpbb123 said:

... my great game of Bonus Ball ... Fortunately, the top players and the professional players saw merit in my game ...

The fact that Larry Chiborak has operated the WPBL like a baboon the last year ...

Despite Chiborak's poor business decisions...

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Hmmm. Are you still a part of the Chiborak group (Chiborak/Bremner group) developing the WPBL?

Not part of the WPBL Boon Doogle, Chiborak took that over from me and has made this mess on his own. I am still a shareholder of Bonus Ball and VP of World Wide Sport of Billiards. Larry is dead to me.

I am promoting Bonus Ball on my own and still would like to sell my shares in the World Wide Sport of Billiards. Larry is in hiding and won't answer my emails or texts. Has anyone beside Nathan really talked to him in the last three months. Since I discovered the contractor mess and verbally lashed out at him for all the stupidy he has done since going solo on this project, he has refused to talk to me. I guess I'm fired as VP but I have not received that information in writing as of yet. I am waiting! :wink:

I have since found out that he has brought in several other investors into a new corporation without my knowledge. I wish him well but I have many concerns about the direction he has taken. I am also concerned about the players getting paid. I have no evidence that he has the funds and actually have more reason to believe he will not have the funds. We have asked for financials from him (law in Canada for shareholders) but he has never produced them. I have suggested to some of the professionals that they protect themselves this time by demanding air fare and a months of wages up front! I also suggest that they have the play-off money put forth into a trust fund with the lawyer of their choice. Simply just good business.

"Well I guess I'll have to be the asshole who says: if pool games never changed or evolved, we'd still be playing with 3 balls, shooting with maces on a 12ft table featuring a hoop and a post. "

No need to self-label yourself; you are correct.

Virtually every game was once a new game.

The OP might also vote to stop time. :grin:

RL

A lot of games were developed for social settings, ie 3-ball for multiple people, or 7-ball to free up a table faster while still playing a rotation game.

I agree that the number of games in pro tourneys could be cleaned up, but many of them were developed as different pool authorities changed. For how many years were one pocket and 9-ball considered hustlers' games?

8-ball became more prevalent as bar boxes became more popular.

Juice said:

I am a three ball champ on the bar table in my home town. LOL

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When I gambled, I made WAY more money at 3 ball than all others combined. It's so easy to hook everybody in the room into it, they all think they can win (it looks/works like a Carney game). I used to start one up, by the end of the night every $1 bill in the place (including the till) was in my pocket...I was making change for everyone at that point, then it would break up. If you move around, you could actually live off it without ever having to sweat real pool games. The little scores add up quick and far outrun the big scores.

Bolus ball

Tried watching bonus ball just now. I saw maybe the first 10 minutes of USA vs Canada and then I couldn't watch anymore. I felt detached from it like I was watching a whole other "sport". I watch streams and have paid for a few matches that I liked when my schedule allowed. But this bonus ball I couldn't watch it and it's free! Not being a hater here I just honestly thought it sucked.

Just because it's a new game does not make it a good game.