I've Got a Secret - Frozen Pair on the Spot

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Silver Member
I've been holding onto this secret, if it really is a secret, for several months or even years now. Not because I don't want to share, but because it doesn't come up often enough in my play to take advantage.

It's the dreaded frozen pair spotted, and trying to make the headball into the corner, like you would in one-pocket.

Now, many/most of you have shot this shot many times, seen it many times, and can't possible wonder what kind of secret there is to it. You've all read Bob Jewett's 10x fuller system (or you should have by now), and you've all seen top one-pocket players pocket this or come close.

But now I've seen dozens of one pocket players trying to show this shot to people, and they miss it over and over until they've adjusted the one glorious time and they say, "just like that!" Ask JoeyA. We watched someone shooting this shot in attempt to show it off a dozen time before he made it. And I had just shot it one time a little earlier (with my method) and buried it on one.

I "discovered" the system that makes this shot so simple, I am amazed I have never seen it in print. In fact, I deduced the theory from another poster, Dr. Dave Alciatore, who talks about judging the natural forward roll of a cueball at and around the halfball hit (~30 deg. +/- a couple) by using your fingers in a peace sign. A peace sign is close enough to 30 deg. for many of us.

For any frozen pair, you can get that first ball rolling forward pretty immediately by just hitting straight at it. Most of us will use draw to get the cueball away from the collision, and possibly inducing forward roll on that first object ball.

So, how to aim? I find the 10x fuller system tough to judge. So, the secret I discovered was to use the peace sign. Put the crook of the fingers over the middle of the front object ball. Point one finger to the pocket. Wherever the other finger pointing, that's the aimpoint.

{Edited Table 9_26_07 with notation}

CueTable Help

 
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Fred, you didn't say whether you need draw on this shot or not. Or I missed it. Would medium speed and a center-ball hit get it done? Whoops, I just noticed the diagram showing a low hit on the cue ball. So this is really about how to aim the shot and you use a bunch of low English for it to work?
 
...the spotted balls in the diagram dont seem straight to my eye but...

.....Are you saying with correctly spotted balls (2)- you can make this shot 9 out of 10 times?
 
BillPorter said:
Fred, you didn't say whether you need draw on this shot or not. Or I missed it. Would medium speed and a center-ball hit get it done? Whoops, I just noticed the diagram showing a low hit on the cue ball. So this is really about how to aim the shot and you use a bunch of low English for it to work?

You don't need a bunch of draw. But, drawing the ball away from the pair makes it easier as far as I can observe. If you hit it flat (stun), you have to hit it pretty firm in my experience to get the object ball all the way to the pocket.

Fred
 
Fragged said:
...the spotted balls in the diagram dont seem straight to my eye but...

.....Are you saying with correctly spotted balls (2)- you can make this shot 9 out of 10 times?

Straight enough. I mean, this is a two-ball spot shot. Once you set it up and shoot it, you'll convince yourself that you can shoot it in every time.

Fred
 
Cornerman said:
I've been holding onto this secret, if it really is a secret, for several months or even years now. Not because I don't want to share, but because it doesn't come up often enough in my play to take advantage.

It's the dreaded frozen pair spotted, and trying to make the headball into the corner, like you would in one-pocket.

Now, many/most of you have shot this shot many times, seen it many times, and can't possible wonder what kind of secret there is to it. You've all read Bob Jewett's 10x fuller system (or you should have by now), and you've all seen top one-pocket players pocket this or come close.

But now I've seen dozens of one pocket players trying to show this shot to people, and they miss it over and over until they've adjusted the one glorious time and they say, "just like that!" Ask JoeyA. We watched someone shooting this shot in attempt to show it off a dozen time before he made it. And I had just shot it one time a little earlier (with my method) and buried it on one.

I "discovered" the system that makes this shot so simple, I am amazed I have never seen it in print. In fact, I deduced the theory from another poster, Dr. Dave Alciatore, who talks about judging the natural forward roll of a cueball at and around the halfball hit (~30 deg. +/- a couple) by using your fingers in a peace sign. A peace sign is close enough to 30 deg. for many of us.

For any frozen pair, you can get that first ball rolling forward pretty immediately by just hitting straight at it. Most of us will use draw to get the cueball away from the collision, and possibly inducing forward roll on that first object ball.

So, how to aim? I find the 10x fuller system tough to judge. So, the secret I discovered was to use the peace sign. Put the crook of the fingers over the middle of the front object ball. Point one finger to the pocket. Wherever the other finger pointing, that's the aimpoint.


CueTable Help



If you happen to aim at the center of the pocket, watch where the object ball goes. If it goes left of center, then next time, adjust your aim accordingly.

I show this shot to my teammates and other people, and I'm near 100% on this shot. I'd like to say 100% since I don't recall ever missing with this system, but I'm sure I'll miss sometime soon. And, I dont' just show this as a spot shot.

Try it and report your findings.

Fred <~~~ thanks to Bob Jewett and Dr. Dave

Now you've done it Fred. You are going to have to make a special offering to spirits of the dead. Marie Laveau has placed a curse on you for sharing this important secret. You may provide the cash offerings and/or other "spirits" offerings to me at DCC and I will see that the curse is lifted and dealt with in a private, efficient and confidential manner.

JoeyA (the connection)

P.S. And yes, Fred did make it on his first try after the wannabee tried time after time to make it.
 
the9ballroller said:
And if you hit it right, you can make the 2 as well.

This an old one pocket shot.
Problem is, most one pocket players can't make even one ball consistently. Hence, the system.

I've never seen anyone make both on the same shot. I've seen both gathered by the hole, and of course making the head ball, but nowhere near on the second.

Fred
 
Thanks for the tip! This shot has always baffled me because I accidentally cut the head ball too much (I guess) and it careens into the side rail. When I watched Efren shoot it at the 2007 DCC, he just slid the CB about 6" or so off the spot and stroked it (he didn't eye ball it at all).
 
This sounds really interesting and I am for sure gonna give this a try. I was always trying to draw to about halfway below the side pocket and the corner pocket. When I drew to that spot off of the two balls, the head ball was going in. Really tough though to consistently draw to that specific spot. This sounds alot easier. Thanks alot!
 
Now kiddies, who knows how to make the second ball straight in the corner pocket, with ball in hand? I DO! And so does Buddy Hall since I showed him years ago.

But I won't tell you on here. I've won a buck or two on this shot.
 
Cornerman said:
Problem is, most one pocket players can't make even one ball consistently. Hence, the system.

I've never seen anyone make both on the same shot. I've seen both gathered by the hole, and of course making the head ball, but nowhere near on the second.

Fred

Keep working on it, I had a Pro show me this shot, and then he showed me how the 2 goes two rails in the corner at the same end of the table.

I can make the head ball in the corner 3 out of 5 most easily, but banking the second ball the two rails is a different shot altogether, but i can make it, but don't see the point of it, with the exception of 9 ball

He also showed me a couple of other shots using the same principle, that proved to be valuable in eight and nine ball, he called it pushing thru the ball.
 
jay helfert said:
Now kiddies, who knows how to make the second ball straight in the corner pocket, with ball in hand? I DO! And so does Buddy Hall since I showed him years ago.

But I won't tell you on here. I've won a buck or two on this shot.
A little jump over the edge of the first ball on the spot.

(Didn't Bob Jewett describe that recently?)

pj
chgo
 
Thanks Fred. I've seen Paul Mon use this system. He must have picked it up from you. Paul is my one pocket mentor;) .

TommyT
 
Patrick Johnson said:
A little jump over the edge of the first ball on the spot.

(Didn't Bob Jewett describe that recently?) ...
Well, yes, but the other way I mentioned was to arrange to have the chalk spot on the cue ball land on the object ball and skid the ball in. The intentional skid pays double.

As for the double spot shot, the way I usually try it is to put the cue ball down a few inches from the head spot and try to draw the cue ball straight back to freeze it on the head cushion. That seems to give enough speed to both object balls.
 
Fred, I tried it 20 times on my 9' table. I made the head ball 6 times and the back ball zero times. I think with a little more practice, the number will go up.

I've toyed with placing the cue ball around the head string to the left and right, but never really spent quality time trying to find a sweet spot. Thanks for the thread.:)
 
Not to rain on Fred's parade but he is probably using the same type balls on the same type table each time he does this. The system is sound but it won't necessarily work on different equipment. If you use a red dot cue ball it will not perform the same as a measles cue ball, if you make it with the red dot and hit exactly the same place with the measles you will push the ball into the short rail.
If you make it with the measles cue ball then try it exactly the same with the red dot it will push the object ball into the long rail. If you are playing on newer cloth or older cloth it won't work the same either.
So, hitting in the same spot with the same balls on the same table with the same cloth and the same cue, with the same humidity, and everything with the same cleanness or dirtiness, will normally get the same results (otherwise you have to adjust). (If this wasn't the case, every one-pocket player would be drooling every time this shot came up.)
 
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This is one of the shots I use to prove the CB transfers English to the OB.

Can anyone tell me how it goes without transfer?

The second ball goes straight back to the right corner with right. I've never made both in one shot but never tried either.
Note the dirtier the balls the easier the shot (s).
 
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Neil said:
Patrick beat me to it, but I also learned that shot from Buddy. Surprise, surprise!

There is a better way! And that's all I have to say. I will bet even money I can make the second ball straight in. Any takers?
 
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