When did Efren FIRST come to the USA?

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Grady said:
People forget that I won the One Pocket at Red's in 85', 83' too for that matter. Most memorable to me was Buddy beating Efren 10 ahead for $10,000 in about an hour. You can't say that Efren robbed everybody. At that time I would play anyone in the world One Pocket but there were no takers around Red's.
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Grady, I have a photo or two of you at Red's. I have to scan the negatives, but when I finish (Mike Haines sent me about 250 negatives of shots taken at Red's between 1983 and 1985), I'll put the pics up in one of my Smugmug gallaries.
 
Grady said:
People forget that I won the One Pocket at Red's in 85', 83' too for that matter. Most memorable to me was Buddy beating Efren 10 ahead for $10,000 in about an hour. You can't say that Efren robbed everybody. At that time I would play anyone in the world One Pocket but there were no takers around Red's.
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It has been said more than once that after Efren won $40K or so under an assumed name in a foreign land, some of the regulars were starting to get a bit ornery and Efren's backers decided to give a bit back for safety reasons. Buddy was the fortunate recipient.

I have no idea if this is so but i would guess it a possibility.
 
Efren

I have heard that too about Efren donating that $10k back to Buddy. The other thing to take into consideration is that it is only one match. Buddy might have been playing lights out at that point and Efren may have been off. All that I was saying is that nobody could stay with Efren back then, and I believe it is still the same now!
 
Only ERO's said:
I have heard that too about Efren donating that $10k back to Buddy. The other thing to take into consideration is that it is only one match. Buddy might have been playing lights out at that point and Efren may have been off. All that I was saying is that nobody could stay with Efren back then, and I believe it is still the same now!
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If sombody wanted to lose against Buddy in the 80's all they had to do was play..... the losing part would've happened all by it self.
 
I have a scan of a long article that appeared in a Sunday Magazine section of the Times Journal in February, 1983. It concerned the newly crowned champion of the Phillipines, Efren Reyes. The article contains the following:

"The only inkling we have that our newly crowned champon is of world-class ability is the result of his one and only stint in an international competition the invitationals in Japan, in which he placed overall second in the tournament which required players to play three different games - 14.1, nine-ball, and rotation. He topped the nine-ball phase of the tournament."

It makes no mention of any other trips out of the country, which doesn't rule out the possiblity of trips just to gamble.

Jim Eales
 
They'd give you sh*t and push you in it!

Nostroke said:
It has been said more than once that after Efren won $40K or so under an assumed name in a foreign land, some of the regulars were starting to get a bit ornery and Efren's backers decided to give a bit back for safety reasons. Buddy was the fortunate recipient.

I have no idea if this is so but i would guess it a possibility.
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Efren's coterie at Red's was about 15 to 20 Filipinos. Efren was in for about 10% if that. The idea that they would give back 10k just to cool people out is absolutely ridiculous. They were all gangsters themselves and wouldn't give anybody the sweat off their n*ts. If heistmen had come in with shotguns I dont believe those Filipinos would have given up the cash. Where on earth did that story originate? BTW, after robbing Effy that one set of 10 ball, Buddy never played him 10 ball again.
the Beard
 
freddy the beard said:
Efren's coterie at Red's was about 15 to 20 Filipinos. Efren was in for about 10% if that. The idea that they would give back 10k just to cool people out is absolutely ridiculous. They were all gangsters themselves and wouldn't give anybody the sweat off their n*ts. If heistmen had come in with shotguns I dont believe those Filipinos would have given up the cash. Where on earth did that story originate? BTW, after robbing Effy that one set of 10 ball, Buddy never played him 10 ball again.
the Beard
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I dont think a buncha tiny filipinos would feel all that tough in Texas. I dont think a buncha tough rednecks would feel all that safe makin a score at some scruffy pool room in Manila either.

It may or may not be true but it certainly isnt ridiculous in and of itself.
 
freddy the beard said:
Efren's coterie at Red's was about 15 to 20 Filipinos. Efren was in for about 10% if that. The idea that they would give back 10k just to cool people out is absolutely ridiculous. They were all gangsters themselves and wouldn't give anybody the sweat off their n*ts. If heistmen had come in with shotguns I dont believe those Filipinos would have given up the cash. Where on earth did that story originate?
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Don't mean to stir the pot, but this is where it was originally posted...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=350138&postcount=10

I like the "sweat off their n*ts" quote BTW. :p
 
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eales said:
I have a scan of a long article that appeared in a Sunday Magazine section of the Times Journal in February, 1983. It concerned the newly crowned champion of the Phillipines, Efren Reyes. The article contains the following:

"The only inkling we have that our newly crowned champon is of world-class ability is the result of his one and only stint in an international competition the invitationals in Japan, in which he placed overall second in the tournament which required players to play three different games - 14.1, nine-ball, and rotation. He topped the nine-ball phase of the tournament."

It makes no mention of any other trips out of the country, which doesn't rule out the possiblity of trips just to gamble.

Jim Eales
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He coudn't have. Efren could not get a US visa until he used Caesar Morales's passport.
 
Only ERO's said:
From what I have been told, Efren originally came to Rochester, MN. A good friend of his was here telling everybody about this world class player from the Phillipines that could rob all the Americans. There were two Phillipino brothers (Nate and Efren(sp.) Ramirez) that convinced the owner of Chick's billiards into fronting some money to bring Efren over from the Phillipines.

This is the beginning to the story that I have heard. I could probably look more into it as comments come up. I know about 3-4 people that remember Efren firing the spot shots in without hitting the rail in the basement of Chicks.
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Are you sure it wasn't Jose Parica or Filipino Gene?:eek:
 
I'm thinking that 1985 is the correct answer

Thanks much to all who have contributed to this thread. After reading all the posts, and after reading this very well done article ( http://www.margarita-station.com/efrenreyes.html ), I have concluded that 1985 was the very first time Efren was in this country. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I'd be glad to hear it.
 
BillPorter said:
Thanks much to all who have contributed to this thread. After reading all the posts, and after reading this very well done article ( http://www.margarita-station.com/efrenreyes.html ), I have concluded that 1985 was the very first time Efren was in this country. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I'd be glad to hear it.
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Well you faked me out-thought we were going to learn a little known fact here.
 
Efren

JoeyInCali said:
Are you sure it wasn't Jose Parica or Filipino Gene?:eek:
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I will look into this tonight by making some phone calls to see what I can dig up. I will try to get as many specifics of stuff in Rochester as possible.
 
jsp said:
That article was posted here before and can be found here...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=316971&postcount=54

Can you believe the shaft thickness of Efren's cue on the first page? Geez.
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That's going back, isn't it?
Efren maintains to this day Boy Bicol was the best player he ever saw.
He only tells this Pinoys of course. Boy Bicol's cueball control according to Efren was incredible. Efren said Boy lost a match one day. His backers thought he threw the match ( he was giving a huge spot of course ) . Efren said Boy just missed after taking a shot for granted. He was dead after that.
 
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Only ERO's said:
... I know about 3-4 people that remember Efren firing the spot shots in without hitting the rail in the basement of Chicks.
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I've heard about these legendary spot shots, so I tried to see what I could do.

The shot is to shoot a ball off the spot and stop the cue ball dead near the spot. I started with the cue ball by the side pocket, where the shot is not hard for most people. Next, I gradually moved the cue ball along the side rail towards the kitchen, which is where Efren is said to shoot the shot. I moved the cue ball about an inch at a time, and shot from the new position until I had made the shot a couple of times.

If the object ball is being cut to the right, you have to jack up and use right draw. The shot has to be hit firmly but not at warp speed. The farther up the table the cue ball gets, the more elevation you need. In about an hour of shooting, I got the cue ball to the first diamond up the table from the side pocket, or half way to the kitchen. At that point, you need about 30 degrees of elevation. I suspect that to make the shot from the kitchen, you will need about 45-60 degrees of elevation, and at that point the aiming is harder.

My conclusion is that the shot is not impossible, it requires a fair amount of elevation, and if anyone wants to try it for even money on a table they haven't played on before, they've got action.

Some people have reported that Efren shot the shot with a nearly level cue stick. Anyone who wants to try that has double action.
 
Red's was no scruffy pool room

Nostroke said:
I dont think a buncha tiny filipinos would feel all that tough in Texas. I dont think a buncha tough rednecks would feel all that safe makin a score at some scruffy pool room in Manila either.

It may or may not be true but it certainly isnt ridiculous in and of itself.
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Speaking from personal experience -- I was there the whole time, we must first note that Red's was a very, very large place. It contained a large disco, snack bar, many tables,etc. It would have taken a platoon of Navy Seals to stick the joint up. There were hundreds of people in there 24hrs a day. Plus, probably 20% of everyone in there also had a gun. Looking back however, a light just went off in my head. What does make sense, and what does answer all the strange circumstances of that match, is that Mr. Effie tossed those Filipino boys! They were betting gigantic money on him and were giving him very little of it. His end of the toss, if it was a toss, was probably more than he would have received from those f*ck-shops for winning the tournament and all that side action. My way of thinking is, if he didn't do it, he should have, to those cheap bast*rds. Jose Parica handled them a little differently, as soon as he got some bankroll he fired the backers and took all the bets himself. That also occurred in Texas.

the Beard
 
Honestly, the things some people believe and say! Efren throw the match to Buddy? C'mon, for 7 or 8 years after Buddy beat him some close friends of Buddy's and mine offered to let Buddy play Efren for $100,000. I was there and privy to the attempted matching up. Then, for another two or three years they didn't play because Buddy wanted to play roll-out.
IMHO, in Buddy's salad days, he played as close to as perfect 9 Ball as it was possible for a human being to play. He was no sweetheart to play against either. In other words, an opponent could play perfect or near perfect and not win. Others tried playing him for money and all failed except maybe me and I only would win about 20 per cent of the time.
Buddy is another one who just wouldn't stand still for a beating either.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I've heard about these legendary spot shots, so I tried to see what I could do.

The shot is to shoot a ball off the spot and stop the cue ball dead near the spot. I started with the cue ball by the side pocket, where the shot is not hard for most people. Next, I gradually moved the cue ball along the side rail towards the kitchen, which is where Efren is said to shoot the shot. I moved the cue ball about an inch at a time, and shot from the new position until I had made the shot a couple of times.

If the object ball is being cut to the right, you have to jack up and use right draw. The shot has to be hit firmly but not at warp speed. The farther up the table the cue ball gets, the more elevation you need. In about an hour of shooting, I got the cue ball to the first diamond up the table from the side pocket, or half way to the kitchen. At that point, you need about 30 degrees of elevation. I suspect that to make the shot from the kitchen, you will need about 45-60 degrees of elevation, and at that point the aiming is harder.

My conclusion is that the shot is not impossible, it requires a fair amount of elevation, and if anyone wants to try it for even money on a table they haven't played on before, they've got action.

Some people have reported that Efren shot the shot with a nearly level cue stick. Anyone who wants to try that has double action.
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No action from me but I did see Efren shoot it a few times. His cue was elevated. The cue ball stopped within a couple balls length after hitting the OB. It did not stop dead. Each time was different and I guess that should be expected. Interesting to me was that he shot it to both
corners.
 
Grady said:
People forget that I won the One Pocket at Red's in 85', 83' too for that matter. Most memorable to me was Buddy beating Efren 10 ahead for $10,000 in about an hour. You can't say that Efren robbed everybody. At that time I would play anyone in the world One Pocket but there were no takers around Red's.
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i was told by the end of the session (if you can call it a session) efren couldnt even hit the cue ball. :eek:
 
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