Hey all. As some of you may already know, I joined the APA this season as a 9 ball captain in the San Gabriel Valley in SoCal just over 2 months ago because I was looking for a change in my game, my regular pool playing routine, and to make some new friends. What happened in a match just over a week ago is so appalling that I'm highly likely going to quit after only 1 season.
Before you think this is an APA bashing thread, you should read what happened.
For the most part, it's been fun. I haven't learned anything new, but I've made some awesome new friends (all of whom were also new to the APA) - and for me that was enough to keep me on board. I haven't had to deal with much of the BS that I know goes on all the time in leagues, especially the APA. The most I've had to deal with is the occasional bickering from opponents about my skill level and those of my teammates. But that's a neverending story throughout all of the pool world, and I'm used to that, being a tournament director at different pool halls, I've dealt with the bickering before.
On our Thursday 9 ball match, we came up against a team named "999" - a team in 7th or 8th place captained by a guy named Tom Tao, while we were I believe tied for 2nd/3rd. Let me remind you that I'm new to the APA, as are all of the team members I have on my roster with me.
For most of the night, business is as usual, there are no incidents, and we are getting along well with our opponents, despite beating them in all first four matches, and we are leading 51-29. I started by playing my 4 against their 4, and won 12-8. Then my 5 beat their 4 12-8. I played the third match (I'm a 7) and beat their 6 13-7. In the fourth match, my 5 defeated their 5, 16-4. As you may have already figured out, I only have 2 points of the 23 left to use. However, I didn't remember to calculate for this, as my teammates' skill levels hadn't been too high before but by this week were high enough for me to not notice we were going over the cap. In the 5th match, I called another 5 after they threw out a 2.
Both players grabbed their gear, took some time to settle in, and lagged. After my player left for a brief few minutes to run to the restroom, he returned and broke. Immediately after breaking, Captain Tom Tao of the USS I'mLosingBadSoI'mGonnaBeAJackass, LEAPS off his barstool to come over to me and shout "You guys just lost. You've just forfeited ALL of your matches from the very beginning and we WIN. None of your points or wins matter anymore. You went over your 23 points and we win every game 15-0. We win tonight 75-0."
After being informed, I kinda stood there in shock, but I did remember that my division rep had told me very early on about a rule in which a forfeit occurs if you go over that 23 point cap. However, I had also remembered that if agreed upon, the captain could allow us to play it anyways, but it was up to him to make that call. So I asked if he would just let it go and let us play, or let me play my 2 or 3 instead, since I was new and forgot the rule. His response? "No. MY first season, some jerk did that to ME, so now I can do it. You can't play your 2 now because your 5 already broke."
I'm just standing there now, frustrated, and I try to rally his players to get him to change his mind and allow us to play. I'm telling them that this is NOT how pool is played, it's not how the sport progresses, and NO ONE should enjoy a win over a technicality that can be overruled if the captain is a reasonable human being. They aren't sure what to say or do, and keep their mouths shut. One girl on the team, the 2 who was supposed to play, is clearly not comfortable with the situation, and tells me she isn't comfortable talking to him or changing his mind. It's like they're all afraid of him. Meanwhile I'm still trying to get his players to talk him, but they continue packing their gear and collecting money.
While I'm getting in Tao's face and telling him he needs to man up and take a loss like he should, and allow us to play, he gets on the phone to call someone about the rule. At the same time, my player gets our division rep on the phone and she asks what's going on. I inform her, and she tells me that the rule he described is not correct. INSTEAD, we are to lose only the LAST match, where the infraction occurred. By this time I'm furious now, since I find out he lied to me. So I go back inside and try to rally his troops again, informing them about his lie, and he admits he was wrong, and whoever he had spoken to on the phone had informed him that it is only the LAST game that should be forfeited. Still, nothing from his team and I give up and start packing my things. I write in my score - 51-44, and get the hell out of the bar.
Then, on Sunday, I look up our scores and stats. And LO AND BEHOLD - what do I find? WE GOT ZERO POINTS. Naturally I get in touch with my rep again, and she tells me that Tao was right in the beginning - we lose the ENTIRE night and receive ZERO for all our wins. WHAT THE HELL?! We are thrown from 2nd/3rd to 9th. Awesome.
By this time I'm so frustrated with EVERYTHING, from Captain Jerk to the rules to the APA itself and how the situation was handled in general. My rep advises me to write a letter, which I did, explaining everything I've explained here, and tells me that the "Board of Directors" is going to meet and discuss my complaint. I have no idea what they would do - IF ANYTHING - to resolve this mess. I wrote in the letter that this guy needs to not only be captaining a team, but that he should be removed from the APA. Say what you want about rules - ethics and morals should trump those rules any day.
So the Board of Directors met yesterday, and - GUESS WHAT - NOTHING was done. I still don't have any points from that week, and Tom Tao is still captain.
Let's recap:
- I'm new, go over cap.
- Tom Tao calls upon a forfeit to save himself from losing horribly
- He gains a 15-0 victory on that match, which might have gone 15-5 in my favor
- So he gained about maybe 10 points in all of this
- He misinformed me about a rule
- After 2 phone calls, 2 people (representing the APA) I am told only the last match is forfeited
- I go home thinking I won 51-44
- Write a complaint
- Find out I got zero points that night
- Find out today that the board of directors accomplished nothing to resolve the issue
So what is the real problem here? I fully understand the need for a 23 point cap and I think it should exist, and know it is key to the "Equalizer" handicapper. But what should the penalty be for going over? Should it REALLY be receiving ZERO points? Why not make the penalty not so ridiculous? I didn't go over cap to be shady, to try and force a win, or any of that. We don't sandbag and I tell that to my team every week. I made an honest mistake, and my team who works hard at their game is penalized heavily for it.
Needless to say, I won't be returning to the APA next season, and I encourage everyone to get the hell out while they can. It's a neverending pit of drama, BS, jerks, egos, and drunk bangers. In the 12+ years that I've been competing in pool, I've only had to deal with a small handful of stupid situations in REAL pool halls, on 9 foot tables, with REAL players who understand the game, etiquette, and ethics. And after ony 2 months in the APA and I'm having to fade this absolute ridiculous garbage.
Tom Tao, his entire team "999" at R Place in Pasadena, the San Gabriel Valley APA, and the entire APA franchise should be ashamed of itself. And you know what? None of this will matter to them, because it's been going on for SO long. Those in the industry who are boxed into it don't even realize how bad it is because they deal with it everyday.
Like I always say - think outside the barbox. There is WAY more to pool than the APA, and I regret HIGHLY ever joining. I knew this would happen and I thought I'd give them a shot anyways. BIG mistake.
Before you think this is an APA bashing thread, you should read what happened.
For the most part, it's been fun. I haven't learned anything new, but I've made some awesome new friends (all of whom were also new to the APA) - and for me that was enough to keep me on board. I haven't had to deal with much of the BS that I know goes on all the time in leagues, especially the APA. The most I've had to deal with is the occasional bickering from opponents about my skill level and those of my teammates. But that's a neverending story throughout all of the pool world, and I'm used to that, being a tournament director at different pool halls, I've dealt with the bickering before.
On our Thursday 9 ball match, we came up against a team named "999" - a team in 7th or 8th place captained by a guy named Tom Tao, while we were I believe tied for 2nd/3rd. Let me remind you that I'm new to the APA, as are all of the team members I have on my roster with me.
For most of the night, business is as usual, there are no incidents, and we are getting along well with our opponents, despite beating them in all first four matches, and we are leading 51-29. I started by playing my 4 against their 4, and won 12-8. Then my 5 beat their 4 12-8. I played the third match (I'm a 7) and beat their 6 13-7. In the fourth match, my 5 defeated their 5, 16-4. As you may have already figured out, I only have 2 points of the 23 left to use. However, I didn't remember to calculate for this, as my teammates' skill levels hadn't been too high before but by this week were high enough for me to not notice we were going over the cap. In the 5th match, I called another 5 after they threw out a 2.
Both players grabbed their gear, took some time to settle in, and lagged. After my player left for a brief few minutes to run to the restroom, he returned and broke. Immediately after breaking, Captain Tom Tao of the USS I'mLosingBadSoI'mGonnaBeAJackass, LEAPS off his barstool to come over to me and shout "You guys just lost. You've just forfeited ALL of your matches from the very beginning and we WIN. None of your points or wins matter anymore. You went over your 23 points and we win every game 15-0. We win tonight 75-0."
After being informed, I kinda stood there in shock, but I did remember that my division rep had told me very early on about a rule in which a forfeit occurs if you go over that 23 point cap. However, I had also remembered that if agreed upon, the captain could allow us to play it anyways, but it was up to him to make that call. So I asked if he would just let it go and let us play, or let me play my 2 or 3 instead, since I was new and forgot the rule. His response? "No. MY first season, some jerk did that to ME, so now I can do it. You can't play your 2 now because your 5 already broke."
I'm just standing there now, frustrated, and I try to rally his players to get him to change his mind and allow us to play. I'm telling them that this is NOT how pool is played, it's not how the sport progresses, and NO ONE should enjoy a win over a technicality that can be overruled if the captain is a reasonable human being. They aren't sure what to say or do, and keep their mouths shut. One girl on the team, the 2 who was supposed to play, is clearly not comfortable with the situation, and tells me she isn't comfortable talking to him or changing his mind. It's like they're all afraid of him. Meanwhile I'm still trying to get his players to talk him, but they continue packing their gear and collecting money.
While I'm getting in Tao's face and telling him he needs to man up and take a loss like he should, and allow us to play, he gets on the phone to call someone about the rule. At the same time, my player gets our division rep on the phone and she asks what's going on. I inform her, and she tells me that the rule he described is not correct. INSTEAD, we are to lose only the LAST match, where the infraction occurred. By this time I'm furious now, since I find out he lied to me. So I go back inside and try to rally his troops again, informing them about his lie, and he admits he was wrong, and whoever he had spoken to on the phone had informed him that it is only the LAST game that should be forfeited. Still, nothing from his team and I give up and start packing my things. I write in my score - 51-44, and get the hell out of the bar.
Then, on Sunday, I look up our scores and stats. And LO AND BEHOLD - what do I find? WE GOT ZERO POINTS. Naturally I get in touch with my rep again, and she tells me that Tao was right in the beginning - we lose the ENTIRE night and receive ZERO for all our wins. WHAT THE HELL?! We are thrown from 2nd/3rd to 9th. Awesome.
By this time I'm so frustrated with EVERYTHING, from Captain Jerk to the rules to the APA itself and how the situation was handled in general. My rep advises me to write a letter, which I did, explaining everything I've explained here, and tells me that the "Board of Directors" is going to meet and discuss my complaint. I have no idea what they would do - IF ANYTHING - to resolve this mess. I wrote in the letter that this guy needs to not only be captaining a team, but that he should be removed from the APA. Say what you want about rules - ethics and morals should trump those rules any day.
So the Board of Directors met yesterday, and - GUESS WHAT - NOTHING was done. I still don't have any points from that week, and Tom Tao is still captain.
Let's recap:
- I'm new, go over cap.
- Tom Tao calls upon a forfeit to save himself from losing horribly
- He gains a 15-0 victory on that match, which might have gone 15-5 in my favor
- So he gained about maybe 10 points in all of this
- He misinformed me about a rule
- After 2 phone calls, 2 people (representing the APA) I am told only the last match is forfeited
- I go home thinking I won 51-44
- Write a complaint
- Find out I got zero points that night
- Find out today that the board of directors accomplished nothing to resolve the issue
So what is the real problem here? I fully understand the need for a 23 point cap and I think it should exist, and know it is key to the "Equalizer" handicapper. But what should the penalty be for going over? Should it REALLY be receiving ZERO points? Why not make the penalty not so ridiculous? I didn't go over cap to be shady, to try and force a win, or any of that. We don't sandbag and I tell that to my team every week. I made an honest mistake, and my team who works hard at their game is penalized heavily for it.
Needless to say, I won't be returning to the APA next season, and I encourage everyone to get the hell out while they can. It's a neverending pit of drama, BS, jerks, egos, and drunk bangers. In the 12+ years that I've been competing in pool, I've only had to deal with a small handful of stupid situations in REAL pool halls, on 9 foot tables, with REAL players who understand the game, etiquette, and ethics. And after ony 2 months in the APA and I'm having to fade this absolute ridiculous garbage.
Tom Tao, his entire team "999" at R Place in Pasadena, the San Gabriel Valley APA, and the entire APA franchise should be ashamed of itself. And you know what? None of this will matter to them, because it's been going on for SO long. Those in the industry who are boxed into it don't even realize how bad it is because they deal with it everyday.
Like I always say - think outside the barbox. There is WAY more to pool than the APA, and I regret HIGHLY ever joining. I knew this would happen and I thought I'd give them a shot anyways. BIG mistake.
