Working with APA 4 before Vegas

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bobprobst

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've got a friend in the APA who's only been playing for a year and a half and has moved up from a 3 to a 4 (much deserved!).

He is an excellent potter and has a natural feel for position. I'd like to spend some time with him on defense play and would like to make it a game so that it's not just boring drills.

My thought is that we can play a standard APA race ('m a 6 in 9 ball so 31-46 race) but alter:

Pocket a ball = 1 point
9 ball = 2 points
plus
If both players agree that the shooting player can't hit a full object ball directly then the opponent get 2 points (even if you hook yourself, amirite??)

but then if they hit it, the shooter earns 1 and if they pot it as well, another 1 for the pot

This should encourages both players to value defenses equally with playing the hero shot. Or maybe only his defenses should be worth 2 and mine =1?

I like this idea as a handicap since many of his weaknesses are that he plays a difficult shot where a defense is much easier.
 
Bobkitty

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
bobprobst said:
I've got a friend in the APA who's only been playing for a year and a half and has moved up from a 3 to a 4 (much deserved!).

He is an excellent potter and has a natural feel for position. I'd like to spend some time with him on defense play and would like to make it a game so that it's not just boring drills.

My thought is that we can play a standard APA race ('m a 6 in 9 ball so 31-46 race) but alter:

Pocket a ball = 1 point
9 ball = 2 points
plus
If both players agree that the shooting player can't hit a full object ball directly then the opponent get 2 points (even if you hook yourself, amirite??)

but then if they hit it, the shooter earns 1 and if they pot it as well, another 1 for the pot

This should encourages both players to value defenses equally with playing the hero shot. Or maybe only his defenses should be worth 2 and mine =1?

I like this idea as a handicap since many of his weaknesses are that he plays a difficult shot where a defense is much easier.
Click to expand...

Teach him the basic T safeties; short T's, and long T's. A lot of 4 level players have never considered hitting a safety.
 
Last edited:
S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A better idea is to play the 6-3 race, { even though he's a 4, give him a small edge), and use the skill difference to point out safety opportunities. That way he gets to "try them on for size" right after you point it out to him. That's one of the strong suits to APA, imo...the ability to learn while playing. That makes it a fair game, and you get to teach him some things that may help him in Vegas! I only hope you're not going to teach him to sandbag, as that's cheating in my eyes. :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
B

bobprobst

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
denwhit said:
Teach him the basic T safeties; short T's, and long T's. Then play Equal Defense with him. A beautiful game; Set the one ball on the spot and a blocker ball in the table middle. Take cue ball in kitchen and start. Long T is worth 3 points, short T is worth 2 points. Partial block with blocking ball 4 points, full block= 5 points. Scratch or miss is -5 points. Race to 50 points.
The game my friend invented is much more detailed and comes with an angle device to define if the safety is at such an angle to deserve a safety, but this is enough to get a feeling of controlling two balls. It will do wonders for the safety game.
Click to expand...

I assume the T Defense you're talking about is a separation hit that leaves the balls on opposing rails?

I like the Equal Defense idea - is there a webpage or video that illustrates it?
 
B

bobprobst

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
A better idea is to play the 6-3 race, { even though he's a 4, give him a small edge), and use the skill difference to point out safety opportunities. That way he gets to "try them on for size" right after you point it out to him. That's one of the strong suits to APA, imo...the ability to learn while playing. That makes it a fair game, and you get to teach him some things that may help him in Vegas! I only hope you're not going to teach him to sandbag, as that's cheating in my eyes. :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Sadly, I never learned to Sandbag. I got bumped to a 6 during my LTCs before winning my trip to Vegas (I tend to play up and had spent the previous year in BCA). My current handicap by the books is a 5.5 (very weak 6) and that's in a league that under-performs compared to bigger cities. Still, I can kick like champ and can duck like a ... well a duck, I guess. Being 50 and blind in one eye makes those long shots a bit tricky though :wink:

I just like playing and competing.
 
Bobkitty

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
bobprobst said:
I assume the T Defense you're talking about is a separation hit that leaves the balls on opposing rails?

I like the Equal Defense idea - is there a webpage or video that illustrates it?
Click to expand...

No, as far as I understand it, my teacher completely originated this game. I catch hell every time I mention his name so I won't.
 
couldnthinkof01

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Seems like a fun idea.
You might also play scotch doubles with them and show them how you think through racks. Like when, why, and how to play defense.
Share and talk about each shot before each person shoots.. They might have some good ideas too.
 
jasonlaus

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Teach him how to make balls for the love of god!!!! He's a FOUR, you are a 6, not sure what you can teach him??? Have fun, its pool. Not being a dik
Jason
 
Bobkitty

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
bobprobst said:
I've got a friend in the APA who's only been playing for a year and a half and has moved up from a 3 to a 4 (much deserved!).

He is an excellent potter and has a natural feel for position. I'd like to spend some time with him on defense play and would like to make it a game so that it's not just boring drills.

My thought is that we can play a standard APA race ('m a 6 in 9 ball so 31-46 race) but alter:

Pocket a ball = 1 point
9 ball = 2 points
plus
If both players agree that the shooting player can't hit a full object ball directly then the opponent get 2 points (even if you hook yourself, amirite??)

but then if they hit it, the shooter earns 1 and if they pot it as well, another 1 for the pot

This should encourages both players to value defenses equally with playing the hero shot. Or maybe only his defenses should be worth 2 and mine =1?

I like this idea as a handicap since many of his weaknesses are that he plays a difficult shot where a defense is much easier.
Click to expand...

Does he know how not to follow a ball into the hole? I swear, if I have to watch one more APA "2" do that, I'll..... well, I quit APA years ago because of that. I offered to help them and the team captain said; "NO, we want them just as they are, leave them alone".
 
Coop1701

Coop1701

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like the idea. But points are a little too easy. Maybe if you make a successful safety,... you minus off a point from the opponent instead of giving the shooter 2 points.

Great idea. Please post back and let us know how it goes.
 
B

bobprobst

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jasonlaus said:
Teach him how to make balls for the love of god!!!! He's a FOUR, you are a 6, not sure what you can teach him??? Have fun, its pool. Not being a dik
Jason
Click to expand...

Oh, he can pocket balls as well as I can but he only thinks one ball ahead most of the time and fires at hero banks and kicks when a D is much easier.

In APA, that's the difference between a 4 and a 6 much of the time
 
B

bobprobst

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
denwhit said:
Does he know how not to follow a ball into the hole? I swear, if I have to watch one more APA "2" do that, I'll..... well, I quit APA years ago because of that. I offered to help them and the team captain said; "NO, we want them just as they are, leave them alone".
Click to expand...

No issue there. He has a good sense of cue ball direction but executes like an APA 4 and doesn't imagine past the first rail contact very often unless it's a shot he knows well.
 
Bobkitty

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
bobprobst said:
Oh, he can pocket balls as well as I can but he only thinks one ball ahead most of the time and fires at hero banks and kicks when a D is much easier.

In APA, that's the difference between a 4 and a 6 much of the time
Click to expand...

Teach him to look at a shot, even an easy shot and think; " why would I want to make that?" if there is no way to get on the next ball and continue the run or if the safety is better and obvious. In other words, trade one shot in for another he'll like better. I've come to love safeties as almost as much as making shots. Learn to love ball in hand.
 
easy-e

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
bobprobst said:
I've got a friend in the APA who's only been playing for a year and a half and has moved up from a 3 to a 4 (much deserved!).

He is an excellent potter and has a natural feel for position. I'd like to spend some time with him on defense play and would like to make it a game so that it's not just boring drills.

My thought is that we can play a standard APA race ('m a 6 in 9 ball so 31-46 race) but alter:

Pocket a ball = 1 point
9 ball = 2 points
plus
If both players agree that the shooting player can't hit a full object ball directly then the opponent get 2 points (even if you hook yourself, amirite??)

but then if they hit it, the shooter earns 1 and if they pot it as well, another 1 for the pot

This should encourages both players to value defenses equally with playing the hero shot. Or maybe only his defenses should be worth 2 and mine =1?

I like this idea as a handicap since many of his weaknesses are that he plays a difficult shot where a defense is much easier.
Click to expand...

Can an APA 4 really be "an excellent potter" and have "a natural feel for position"? That sounds like the kind of player that wins big tournaments.
 
mattb

mattb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Teach them to play 1 pocket. They will look and see safeties in a whole new way. They will also learn touch shots. Anyone can fire at balls at break speed but sometimes a light touch is a much better option but harder to learn.
 
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