Our Young American Players Lose

cardiac kid said:

Whether this event is contrived like the Mosconi or not, it's sad to see our "kids" lose. I can see why though. Watched over ten hours of the Swedish 9 ball event. With only one exception, every player I watched in the event had the same stance, same stroke, same pattern play. It's obvious we need to change our training regimens to bring the American game up to European standards. Can not see how our young American players will ever beat the Europeans or Asians without something changing. Any ideas?

Lyn

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Said it 5 years ago to Mark Griffin, US won't win the mosconi for 10 years i told him, he looked at me like i was crazy. I told him the techniques and training is years out of date and things have to change. Imo fundamentals ain't good enough, which will show up when it matters. Don't get me wrong, lots of good players over here, just need better training.

lee brett said:

Said it 5 years ago to Mark Griffin, US won't win the mosconi for 10 years i told him, he looked at me like i was crazy. I told him the techniques and training is years out of date and things have to change. Imo fundamentals ain't good enough, which will show up when it matters. Don't get me wrong, lots of good players over here, just need better training.

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The greatest test of fundamentals each year is the Bigfoot Challenge (formerly called the Fatboy), a 10-ball event played on 10 foot tables during the Derby City Classic. Every year, the field includes Americans, Europeans and Asians. Here are the winners:

2009 Lee Van Cortezza
2010 Efren Reyes
2011 Rodney Morris
2012 Bustamante
2013 Orcullo
2014 Van Boening
2015 Van Boening

By continent, Asian has four wins, America three and Europe none. The top Americans shoot ridiculously straight playing in the toughest event, and the format and conditions tend to reduce the frequency and, consequently, the importance of defense and kicking, which helps American chances.

In regular tournament play and, of late, every year at the Mosconi, I think it's the safety play that's Europe's biggest advantage over America, with kicking second biggest. I think Americans run the table nearly as well as the best Europeans and Americans also break a little better, but they are far inferior to Europeans in tactical battles for control of the table on the nine footers.

Of course, in the last Mosconi Cup, one American player shone in the tactical play and that was Justin Hall, and his inclusion on the next Team USA is even more obvious than the inclusion of Van Boening.

cardiac kid said:

It's obvious we need to change our training regimens to bring the American game up to European standards.

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lol "our training regimens"

sjm said:

The greatest test of fundamentals each year is the Bigfoot Challenge (formerly called the Fatboy), a 10-ball event played on 10 foot tables during the Derby City Classic. Every year, the field includes Americans, Europeans and Asians. Here are the winners:

2009 Lee Van Cortezza
2010 Efren Reyes
2011 Rodney Morris
2012 Bustamante
2013 Orcullo
2014 Van Boening
2015 Van Boening

By continent, Asian has four wins, America three and Europe none. The top Americans shoot ridiculously straight playing in the toughest event, and the format and conditions tend to reduce the frequency and, consequently, the importance of defense and kicking, which helps American chances.

In regular tournament play and, of late, every year at the Mosconi, I think it's the safety play that's Europe's biggest advantage over America, with kicking second biggest. I think Americans run the table nearly as well as the best Europeans and Americans also break a little better, but they are far inferior to Europeans in tactical battles for control of the table on the nine footers.

Of course, in the last Mosconi Cup, one American player shone in the tactical play and that was Justin Hall, and his inclusion on the next Team USA is even more obvious than the inclusion of Van Boening.

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A couple corrections, sjm. The Fatboy events, the first four shown in your list of seven, were on 9-footers. Only the Bigfoot events were on 10-footers, and they actually started at the Southern Classic in 2012 (won by Pagulayan). The second Southern Classic, in 2013, also had a Bigfoot event (won by Boyes). So one of the five Bigfoot events so far was won by a European. More details on the 9 Fatboy and Bigfoot events can be found here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=387852.

Don't think fundamentals are the problem. The Filipinos and Taiwanese are the best pool players in the world at the moment and it can be said they have very "un-textbook" mechanics.

I think it has to do with passion and interest. Pool is a hobby for kids now in the States, where's it a passion in the Philippines, and while Europe might not have the same passion as the Philippines, I think they're more committed to cue sports overall. Even the top junior girl said she has no desire to play professionally. She's also pretty textbook with her mechanics.

Also worth mentioning that most European and Asian cities are more condensed geographically, meaning a pool/snooker hall is probably within walking/train distance for most, so testing and bettering yourself against competition is easy to do. A young pool player today, if he doesn't live in one the East Coast cities, probably doesn't get as much table time and/or just practices by himself on a home table.

It's no surprise the great American pool players of yesteryear spent their formative years on the road, always in action. Not so for today's young players.

Furthermore, they only lost 11-9 playing "on the road," so it was a respectable performance.

midnightpulp said:

Don't think fundamentals are the problem. The Filipinos and Taiwanese are the best pool players in the world at the moment and it can be said they have very "un-textbook" mechanics.

I think it has to do with passion and interest. Pool is a hobby for kids now in the States, where's it a passion in the Philippines, and while Europe might not have the same passion as the Philippines, I think they're more committed to cue sports overall. Even the top junior girl said she has no desire to play professionally. She's also pretty textbook with her mechanics.

Also worth mentioning that most European and Asian cities are more condensed geographically, meaning a pool/snooker hall is probably within walking/train distance for most, so testing and bettering yourself against competition is easy to do. A young pool player today, if he doesn't live in one the East Coast cities, probably doesn't get as much table time and/or just practices by himself on a home table.

It's no surprise the great American pool players of yesteryear spent their formative years on the road, always in action. Not so for today's young players.

Furthermore, they only lost 11-9 playing "on the road," so it was a respectable performance.

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I'll tell you what you guys have in spades: ready made excuses. Go see my thread you're currently trolling for the answer to all your problems.

sjm said:

The greatest test of fundamentals each year is the Bigfoot Challenge (formerly called the Fatboy), a 10-ball event played on 10 foot tables during the Derby City Classic. Every year, the field includes Americans, Europeans and Asians. Here are the winners:

2009 Lee Van Cortezza
2010 Efren Reyes
2011 Rodney Morris
2012 Bustamante
2013 Orcullo
2014 Van Boening
2015 Van Boening

By continent, Asian has four wins, America three and Europe none. The top Americans shoot ridiculously straight playing in the toughest event, and the format and conditions tend to reduce the frequency and, consequently, the importance of defense and kicking, which helps American chances.

In regular tournament play and, of late, every year at the Mosconi, I think it's the safety play that's Europe's biggest advantage over America, with kicking second biggest. I think Americans run the table nearly as well as the best Europeans and Americans also break a little better, but they are far inferior to Europeans in tactical battles for control of the table on the nine footers.

Of course, in the last Mosconi Cup, one American player shone in the tactical play and that was Justin Hall, and his inclusion on the next Team USA is even more obvious than the inclusion of Van Boening.

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I think close cue ball control trumps those. American players don't have it to the extent of others.

Ron Swanson said:

I'll tell you what you guys have in spades: ready made excuses. Go see my thread you're currently trolling for the answer to all your problems.

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What excuses?

American kids don't play pool anymore like they once used to. All our greats hit the road in their teens, sleeping in pool halls, living and breathing the game.

Now it's a hobby.

Anyhow, were their any Brits on the European team?

You make a good point,

midnightpulp said:

Don't think fundamentals are the problem. The Filipinos and Taiwanese are the best pool players in the world at the moment and it can be said they have very "un-textbook" mechanics.

I think it has to do with passion and interest. Pool is a hobby for kids now in the States, where's it a passion in the Philippines, and while Europe might not have the same passion as the Philippines, I think they're more committed to cue sports overall. Even the top junior girl said she has no desire to play professionally. She's also pretty textbook with her mechanics.

Also worth mentioning that most European and Asian cities are more condensed geographically, meaning a pool/snooker hall is probably within walking/train distance for most, so testing and bettering yourself against competition is easy to do. A young pool player today, if he doesn't live in one the East Coast cities, probably doesn't get as much table time and/or just practices by himself on a home table.

.

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American players don't seem to have the will to win in Cue Sports, they take other sports seriously, but not Pool, no Pool is something to do for fun. In Europe Snooker seems to keep the over all Cue Sport passion burning, The far east has its own rhythm and the Philippines, we know that story. But here in the states, no one wants to work that hard and it shows.

Let Alex play for team (North) America and they will stand a chance.

Masayoshi said:

Let Alex play for team (North) America and they will stand a chance.

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Would give a Canadian team more of a chance than a US team just now against the Europeans. Alex P, Morra, Klatt...

midnightpulp said:

What excuses?

American kids don't play pool anymore like they once used to. All our greats hit the road in their teens, sleeping in pool halls, living and breathing the game.

Now it's a hobby.

Anyhow, were their any Brits on the European team?

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Well it helped that the other countries had no players and didn't really play American pool
Even with that really who grows up aspiring to be a pool other than left out Louie who never got picked on the school yard ,, not many so the pool was never crowded


1

Training Regiments?????

WE HAVE TRAINING REGIMENTS ????

When did This happen and where was I!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the American training regime has always been the gamble and the grind which use to be why we were the best but know times may be changing and quality practice might be the way to go.

midnightpulp said:

American kids don't play pool anymore like they once used to.

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Pretty dim future in the sport, as compared to many other sports, so who could blame them. That we would have to change first.

I think the to many fundamentals thing makes pool very boring to watch myself.

There is no support structure for youth pool like there are for other sports. How many towns have football, baseball fields and so on yet no pool room or very limited.

Any youth pool leagues? My nephews play and other little kids in know play soccer, wrestle, baseball and so on, yet there is no youth pool at all.

My daughter, in her senior year of high school, was able to take bowling as a class, yet pool was not offered. Pool room owners also have a part in how pool grows and its imagine.

Where most pool is played, parents do not want their kids to go to.

There are pool rooms not bars, the Old California Billairds as example, that was idea for youth pool, yet never tried. Edges is another. I go there early on the weekends and majority of tables are empty and I think what a waste. Perfect time for youth pool. But never have.

Why is this? Why is the youth market not tapped in order to grow pool, change the imagine of what pool is about and what being a pool player is about, cause it for sure ain't the money for most.

I got my first exposure to pool because the city had a couple of rec rooms with 8 foot tables. Pay a small fee, I played as much as I wanted. There never was a pool room in the town. None of my family played. But I got hooked way back then because the city did have rooms with tables in a safe place I could play so mom didn't worry when I rode my bike there.

if I was to ever open a room, getting the youth and families in, supporting youth pool would be part of my goal.

sjm said:

The greatest test of fundamentals each year is the Bigfoot Challenge (formerly called the Fatboy), a 10-ball event played on 10 foot tables during the Derby City Classic. Every year, the field includes Americans, Europeans and Asians. Here are the winners:

2009 Lee Van Cortezza
2010 Efren Reyes
2011 Rodney Morris
2012 Bustamante
2013 Orcullo
2014 Van Boening
2015 Van Boening

By continent, Asian has four wins, America three and Europe none. The top Americans shoot ridiculously straight playing in the toughest event, and the format and conditions tend to reduce the frequency and, consequently, the importance of defense and kicking, which helps American chances.

In regular tournament play and, of late, every year at the Mosconi, I think it's the safety play that's Europe's biggest advantage over America, with kicking second biggest. I think Americans run the table nearly as well as the best Europeans and Americans also break a little better, but they are far inferior to Europeans in tactical battles for control of the table on the nine footers.

Of course, in the last Mosconi Cup, one American player shone in the tactical play and that was Justin Hall, and his inclusion on the next Team USA is even more obvious than the inclusion of Van Boening.

Click to expand...

+1

Teaching everyone to shoot the same won't solve anything. Bustamante, Coretza, Reyes, and Shane all have "non-standard" strokes. Everyone going around saying we need to shoot like robot snookers players just don't get it.

You know I do believe that eliminating smoking indoors is a good step in the right direction to get the youth back in the pool halls. Also doing a winter or summer youth league on midday weekends might be the answer.