Mosconi Cup is unfair
- Thread starter MisspentYouth
- Start date
Not my point. I'm reacting to those that suggest that Dechaine's efforts at age 24 in the Mosconi are conclusive proof that he will never fare well against Team Europe.
You're absolutely right about that, stu, and I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise by posting his Cup record. The record is what it is, produced by someone who was then 24 and 25. If Mike sticks with the game, I expect we will see him competing successfully in the Cup (and many international events) for many, many years to come -- just not this year, unless Mark W. does something totally unexpected.
I'm not saying Mike hasn't got better or the he doesn't deserve another shot at the MC. What I'm saying is it wasn't so much his playing skills that caused a poor performance. He was clearly sharked by the Europe fans. He has stated many times that he knows he has to work on his behavier, and he is. As the old Brooklyn Bums use to say, "Wait till next year". I believe he has matured a lot this year and will do much better at the cup next year. Johnnyt
takeitdown
Banned
Apparently it does matter. Doesn't it.
Just curious. How many times have you spoken to Mark yourself?
No kidding, Dave. I'd love to see some of these idiot posters say some of the things they've posted on here, said to Mark's face. Mark is completely nonviolent, but at 6'4" he is none the less intimidating. I will tell you this...I just spent a couple of days with Mark and the Lindenwood Lions, to better understand Mark's program (I'm hoping to branch it out at another university)...Mark's #1 priority is the university program. He will no doubt, put 110% into his role as Mosconi Cup Team USA Captain, but I wouldn't look to him to captain the team forever. If Team USA can develop and maintain the level of attitude and respect for the sport that Mark is demanding of them, we have a great chance to defeat Team Europe. While Takeitdown may be caught up in the "need" to gamble, neither Mark nor I (or any number of others) feel the need. GO Team USA! :thumbup:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
After all these months you still don't get it. This isn't like an individual tournament where each player is only representing themselves. In this event the players are representing their country and/or their continent. How they will represent their country/continent to the world and not be an embarrassment to them has to also be taken into consideration along with their abilities on the table.
The other thing you just don't get is that in a team competition there are more dynamics that contribute to a winning formula than individual pool skills alone. For example, someone who is constantly irritating and pissing off their teammates and who nobody wants to be around is probably going to end up negatively affecting their teammates and causing them to play worse. Somebody who would tell a teammate "holy crap dude you really suck, I can't believe you dogged that match, you are going to cause us to lose this whole thing this year, you don't deserve to be here and shouldn't have ever been selected, I hope you feel good about yourself for screwing up so bad" is probably not a good guy to have on the team because he is almost assured to have a negative impact on the performance of the others.
On the flip side, somebody who is easy to get along with and well liked and respected, and who is always trying to pump up their teammates and inspire confidence in their games can have a positive impact and influence on a team and help to raise their level of play and is exactly the type of person you want on a team. There is so much more to team dynamics than these specific examples but you get the point. How well the guys respect and like and especially support and encourage each other can and usually does have a tremendous impact on how well they will end up performing.
Another thing Mark Wilson also appears to be looking for is players that are young and still receptive to input. Meaning that they can be coached. What point is there in having a team captain if he can't have any impact or contribute anything because the players are not receptive to it? What good would that do? Older more established players sometimes aren't open to coaching, and certain personality types certainly aren't open to it, and Mark appears to be taking these things into consideration as well.
Nowhere have I have seen Mark Wilson claim these are America's best 8 players based on individual pool ability alone. The reason is because individual pool ability alone isn't nor should it be the sole criteria. What Mark Wilson is trying to do is put together the players that he believes are best with all things taken into consideration, their individual skill, their ability to be good teammates and team players, their ability to represent America with some class and with minimal chance for being an embarrassment to their country, and who are coach-able where he might be able to have an impact both in their preparation leading up to the event and during the event itself (and perhaps even a long lasting impact since these younger guys are the future of American pool and Mosconi Cup team rosters).
Now we can argue and discuss which players are best under those criteria all things considered, but to try to argue for the inclusion of players based on only a single criteria is truly idiotic because there is more than one criteria that matters and makes a difference and that has to be taken into consideration. Everyone including Mark Wilson knows that other players might be above some of the current pool of 8 in single criteria. Mike Dechaine and Johnny Archer are almost certainly better players than many. Tommy Kennedy and Tony Robles are almost certainly better team players and sportsman and representatives than many, etc. So what, it doesn't matter. What matters is who is the best fit when all the criteria are taken into consideration, and unfortunately some people are so poor in certain areas that they have to be excluded from consideration, at least at this point in time.
John Schmidt mentioned in a interview that there were 25 US players who could be considered as Mosconi Cup candidates. Europe would probably have twice that number.
Is John right? So how would these Matchups work out?
Of course it will never happen but it is good to speculate
12-13? 13-12? 0-25?
Draw the match running order out randomly then sit back and take your pick
1 Shane versus Niels
2 Dechaine versus Appleton
3 Morris versus Souquet
4 Archer versus Immonen
5 Bergman versus van den Berg
6 Strickland Hohmann
7 Hatch versus Shaw
8 Woodward Boyes
9 Deuel versus Melling
10 Dominguez versus Ouschen
11 Hall versus Gray
12 Shuff versus Ekonomopolous
13 Sossei versus Alcaide
14 Robles versus Skowerski
15 Saez versus Chamat
16 Schmidt versus Snogieski
17 Frost versus Ortmann
16 Putnam versus Babica
19 Eberle versus Grabe
20 Bryant versus Stepanov
21 Moore versus See
22 Kennedy versus Hybler
23 Nevel versus Petroni
24 Bartram versus Malaj
25 Mills versus He
Once we get past this point for the USA we are dredging a bit. But the European list could easily go on another 20 places. Some of the lesser known Euros like Grabe, Ouschen and Gray are contenders for this year’s Mosconi Cup. Their lack of experience might favor a highly motivated USA team
Despite this apparent inequality I believe that Mark Wilson can lead the USA to victory because of the work that he has put in to create the team factor.
Is John right? So how would these Matchups work out?
Of course it will never happen but it is good to speculate
12-13? 13-12? 0-25?
Draw the match running order out randomly then sit back and take your pick
1 Shane versus Niels
2 Dechaine versus Appleton
3 Morris versus Souquet
4 Archer versus Immonen
5 Bergman versus van den Berg
6 Strickland Hohmann
7 Hatch versus Shaw
8 Woodward Boyes
9 Deuel versus Melling
10 Dominguez versus Ouschen
11 Hall versus Gray
12 Shuff versus Ekonomopolous
13 Sossei versus Alcaide
14 Robles versus Skowerski
15 Saez versus Chamat
16 Schmidt versus Snogieski
17 Frost versus Ortmann
16 Putnam versus Babica
19 Eberle versus Grabe
20 Bryant versus Stepanov
21 Moore versus See
22 Kennedy versus Hybler
23 Nevel versus Petroni
24 Bartram versus Malaj
25 Mills versus He
Once we get past this point for the USA we are dredging a bit. But the European list could easily go on another 20 places. Some of the lesser known Euros like Grabe, Ouschen and Gray are contenders for this year’s Mosconi Cup. Their lack of experience might favor a highly motivated USA team
Despite this apparent inequality I believe that Mark Wilson can lead the USA to victory because of the work that he has put in to create the team factor.
Will Matchroom want an all vanilla, white hatted, no villain, no antagonist, no couth vs noncouth colonist upstart comeupance story line to market and sell(whether blatant or subliminal)?
The Mosconi cup is primarily an entertainment matchup with bragging rights, that is a for profit venture. No one dies. Just hopefully, gets the sh1t beat out of him/them.....in a good natured sports fan way.
Earl has provided his share of that drama element over the years...it remains to be seen whether this much civility sells.
...I hope the entire US team can hop on the table at the same time and do King Kong roars in unison after the last ball is struck. Or even before the last ball is pocketed, if the match is locked up...and then immediately apologize to anyone offended, since we were overcome with emotion ..just to help sales next time around
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its funny how since 07 where euro took over the mantle the americans are very worried now and bash the mosconi format, the selection the venue I mean geez how many times have the rules changed.
scary thing is euro;s are just starting Appleton won more than us players combined (bar svb) and Appleton only being playing since 06 ish. euro are only going to get better. its still a great tournament and I am glad that bergman etc are getting a shot. you are only as good as the opportunities you are given .
scary thing is euro;s are just starting Appleton won more than us players combined (bar svb) and Appleton only being playing since 06 ish. euro are only going to get better. its still a great tournament and I am glad that bergman etc are getting a shot. you are only as good as the opportunities you are given .
Will Matchroom want an all vanilla, white hatted, no villain, no antagonist, no couth vs noncouth colonist upstart comeupance story line to market and sell(whether blatant or subliminal)?
The Mosconi cup is primarily an entertainment matchup with bragging rights, that is a for profit venture. No one dies. Just hopefully, gets the sh1t beat out of him/them.....in a good natured sports fan way.
Earl has provided his share of that drama element over the years...it remains to be seen whether this much civility sells.
...I hope the entire US team can hop on the table at the same time and do King Kong roars in unison after the last ball is struck. Or even before the last ball is pocketed, if the match is locked up...and then immediately apologize to anyone offended, since we were overcome with emotion ..just to help sales next time around
I suspect Matchroom only cares about having a competitive match. If Europe fields its dream team of five World 9-ball champions, including the last three (Souquet, Immonen, Appleton, Hohmann, Feijen), they may not get it, but you never know.
I won't be watching the Mosconi cup any more.
It's representation show it to be racist, sexist and homophobic,
We all know that is simply not tolerable any more.
Sieg Fail
JC
Please tell me you are kidding here JC, I sometimes am not very smart and so I miss the humor in things. If you are serious I think I can poke holes in your statement.
JC
Coos Cues
Of course I'm being sarcastic Mark.
But trust me there's a whole culture of PC assholes who believes what I wrote and is dead serious about it.
The fact you had to ask if I was kidding or not proves that you know that too.:wink:
JC
I'm pretty sure that's a foul.
it's ok - you just don't get English humour, cause you're an Aussie!
He will be lucky if its only a pinky