Throwing in long straight-in shots

jsp · Feb 20, 2009

First, two observations that I've noticed about my current play...

1) When I miss long straight-in shots (when stunning the CB), the vast majority of the time it's because I put unintended side spin on the CB that throws the OB to the left/right of the pocket. My alignment is good, but I'm not gifted with the straightest stroke in the world (and my balls are somewhat dirty).

2) My pocketing percentage is actually greater for a shot with a small cut angle compared to a completely straight-in shot. For these shots with small cut angles, I use a touch of outside english to compensate for throw.

Based on these two observations, I did some experimenting on my table yesterday. I set up long straight-in shots, but I used a touch of right english on each shot. To compensate for the throw, I would aim such that the OB (with no friction) would head toward the right point of the pocket.

The above diagram shows what I'm talking about. The shot is actually straight in (black line). I'm aiming the CB such that the 9-ball would miss the pocket slightly to the right (yellow line). However, I use right english to throw it back in line to the pocket.

CueTable Help

Using the method above, I noticed that my pocketing accuracy for these long straight-in shots went up significantly (at least it did yesterday). I do have somewhat of an explanation why I think my accuracy goes up, but I don't want to get into that now. It's still too soon for me to decide whether I'd incorporate this technique to my play on a regular basis. I was just wondering if anyone else does this (throwing in straight-in shots) regularly.

GMAC · Feb 20, 2009

my best advice

Aim straight in shots straight in. Anything else will probably fail under pressure IMO.

If you are having trouble hitting center ball fix that instead of making the game harder. GL

md5key · Feb 20, 2009

I do the exact same thing as you, jsp. However, I'm trying to fix it so that I hit center ball on these shots, as GMAC suggested. Using the throw just means you're adjusting for the error you're making, not fixing the error itself.

Paul Mon · Feb 20, 2009

I have just the opposite problem. If I have a slight cut shot I end up sending the object ball dead straight. In my case it is a visual thing.

You may want to try one thing on the straight shot. Instead of aiming at the object ball you aim at the intended pocket. Shoot like the object ball wasn't even there and try to roll the cueball into the pocket.

Also try the practice drill where you put the cueball on the foot spot and stroke it over the head spot and straight back into your tip.

Paul

SpiderWebComm · Feb 20, 2009

Instead of throwing the CB, consider throwing your cue....at least releasing the cue and catching it. When it's released....it's flying straight...guaranteed. Then you can focus on where the tip strikes the CB.

I think you're doing this because you're compensating for a crooked stroke. Try at least letting the cue slide in your hand. I drop mine completely on long straight-ins.

jsp · Feb 20, 2009

GMAC said:
Aim straight in shots straight in. Anything else will probably fail under pressure IMO.

If you are having trouble hitting center ball fix that instead of making the game harder. GL

You make a good point. And much of me agrees with you.

However, I ask myself how often do the these shots come up where we have to perfectly hit center-ball? On all cut shots, I almost always use a degree of english. And for straight-in shots that are relatively shorter, the effects of unintended english don't get magnified to the extent that you'd miss the shot (unless you hit the CB really off center, which I don't).

It seems to me that 98% of the time you don't really need to hit the CB perfectly at center ball. So part of me thinks that it's better time worth spent focusing on alignment, aim, position, feel, strategy, etc...than spending hours and hours perfecting a perfectly straight stroke that is essential for a snooker player, but not necessarily for a successful pool player.

But then again, much of me still wants to obtain that perfectly straight stroke.

Cuebacca · Feb 20, 2009

I have never tried it but I am guessing that Joe Tucker's 3rd Eye Stroke Trainer would help to correct the accidental english problem.

Andrew Manning · Feb 20, 2009

jsp said:
You make a good point. And much of me agrees with you.

However, I ask myself how often do the these shots come up where we have to perfectly hit center-ball? On all cut shots, I almost always use a degree of english. And for straight-in shots that are relatively shorter, the effects of unintended english don't get magnified to the extent that you'd miss the shot (unless you hit the CB really off center, which I don't).

It seems to me that 98% of the time you don't really need to hit the CB perfectly at center ball. So part of me thinks that it's better time worth spent focusing on alignment, aim, position, feel, strategy, etc...than spending hours and hours perfecting a perfectly straight stroke that is essential for a snooker player, but not necessarily for a successful pool player.

But then again, much of me still wants to obtain that perfectly straight stroke.

It's true that for most shots, you don't really need perfect center ball. But if you can't hit the dead center, what makes you think you can hit a different tip location with precision?

There are many shots (most shots for some people) that come up, especially for the amateur who doesn't always leave himself the most natural of angles to work with, that require a very precise stroke. That stroke doesn't necessarily have to be dead straight, but it has to hit the CB in an extremely precise location (tip offset) in an extremely precise direction. If you can't stroke with the precision required to make your diagrammed straight-in shot with no spin, you're going to struggle with the entire set of shots that require a high degree of precision. Sure, you'll make them sometimes, and that percentage will improve up to a point with experience and practice, but without the precise stroke, consistency will elude you. And no matter how good your "good shots" get, less-than-stellar consistency will result in losses against decent players, consistently.

-Andrew

gforces1911 · Feb 20, 2009

Imho

You have to aim for a part of the pocket-- even on shots that are straight or appear to be very straight in. In your diagram, you have the OB scoring in the correct side of the pocket (as opposed to catching the left point or flirting with that danger). Some diamond tables would be an exception to this.

IA8baller · Feb 20, 2009

I've struggled with that type of shot lately as well. :angry:

Not long ago I was making that shot very consistently, but as of late not so much. I've also had a few shots like that lately that end up rolling through the very small valleys in the felt created by people breaking from one particular spot and if the speed is too slow you can literally see the object ball juke slightly to one side or the other and end up titting the pocket and end up hanging there in the pocket. DOUBLE :angry: That's just the nature of the beast with bar boxes I suppose but OMG is it ever frustrating! What is even more frustrating is you as the shooter see it happen but no one else has the vantage point to see it happen and if you try to explain what happened on why the shot didn't fall then it seems like you're just making excuses. :frown:

I guess I need to buckle down and practice my stroke a little more as well as making sure I'm hitting dead center cue ball w/o throwing a tad bit of english on that shot.

Don't ya just love this game?

jsp · Feb 20, 2009

Andrew Manning said:
It's true that for most shots, you don't really need perfect center ball. But if you can't hit the dead center, what makes you think you can hit a different tip location with precision?

I would argue that for most shots proper alignment and aim is MUCH more important than delivering the tip at a precise point on the CB. But for long straight-in shots using absolute center ball, precise tip placement is just as important.

jsp · Feb 20, 2009

Cuebacca said:
I have never tried it but I am guessing that Joe Tucker's 3rd Eye Stroke Trainer would help to correct the accidental english problem.

I bought that (twice actually because I ran the first over with my car), and it is a great product! That tool did wonders for my alignment. But it's really not a tool that will give you with a completely straight stroke.

I guess I must clarify that (at least to me) proper alignment and stroking completely straight are two different things.

Tennesseejoe · Feb 20, 2009

Get a Jim Rempe cueball and see where you are hitting the cueball by checking out the chalk mark on the cueball after you shoot. Do this at various speeds. Your stroke may tend to go off to the side at a faster speed and you do not notice it.

IA8baller · Feb 20, 2009

Tennesseejoe said:
Get a Jim Rempe cueball and see where you are hitting the cueball by checking out the chalk mark on the cueball after you shoot. Do this at various speeds. Your stroke may tend to go off to the side at a faster speed and you do not notice it.

Good idea. I have the Aramith training ball and I might just have to go out to the garage (my pool room/shop) and try a few shots to see what I'm doing.

duckie · Feb 20, 2009

This is a fun little drill.

Take the cue ball and one ball.

At either end of the table set up for a straight shot to the other end of the table.

Keep the distance between the cue ball and object such that a stun or stop is really easy to do, I like around a foot.

The object is to stop the cue ball after hitting the object ball and the object ball go down to the far rail and then back to hit the cue ball, hopefully in the center. If something is off, this drill sure will so it.

I call this the is everything straight drill.

quitecoolguy · Feb 20, 2009

I have this problem as well. I do have the Joe Tucker third eye trainer and it really really really helps. I just dont practice with long enough for it to become habit. I use it right before a tournament and i find that my stroke get in line..but a few days it goes a bit out of wack again. My best friend showed me something with a straight in shot..and i have snapped off some amazing long distance striaght in shots with this method. Its really simple. I simply ignore the object ball. I shot the cue ball directly in the pocket. Thats what i aim for.,..the object ball just happens to be in the way of the path and wammo to the back of the pocket it slams into...when i used to practice every day i would end my practice sesson with nine ball in the middel of the table, cue ball dead in the jaws of the corner pocket and i would snap the nine in the top corner and try and draw the cue ball back and scratch. I got to where i could do 5 out of ten times.

TheBook · Feb 20, 2009

Everyone without a good stroke will have this problem.

Take a lesson from one of the BCA instructors. They will film your stroke and show you what is wrong and then will teach you the proper way to stroke a ball and get proper alignment.

A good way to practice this shot is with a unchalked tip. If you don't hit the center of the CB you will miscue.

Andrew Manning · Feb 20, 2009

jsp said:
I would argue that for most shots proper alignment and aim is MUCH more important than delivering the tip at a precise point on the CB.

Not if you're playing for position.

-Andrew

Jal · Feb 20, 2009

jsp said:
... I do have somewhat of an explanation why I think my accuracy goes up, but I don't want to get into that now....

Dr. Joe W. has posed the possibility that applying a "known" amount of side might be better than a somewhat inaccurate attempt at striking centerball. Fran Crimi, a pro and now head of the BCA instructors program, stated on the CCB forum that she believes that many pros use this technique, though not necessarily with the straight-in shot you're describing (I don't want to put words in her mouth).

However, for what it's worth, I agree with Andrew Manning's assessment, and I think several other posters are implying the same thing: Why would you be any more accurate in attempting to apply a "known" amount of side? I'd be interested in your theory, of course, as I'm sure it's well thought out.

Jim

cigardave · Feb 20, 2009

Here is what I do... aim, center of CB to center of OB... and aim edge of ball to edge of ball... they should be totally overlapped... Next, during your practice strokes, check the aim of your cue tip relative to the center of the throat of the pocket... make any very minor adjustment, you should be perfectly aimed by now.

Now, stroke through the CB as if it is not even there... you should be stroking to the back of the pocket. The OB should be going straight into the portion of the pocket that you are stroking to. Hold the end of your stroke, check where your cue is pointing.

Try this a time or two. It works (for me).

Throwing in long straight-in shots

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