Another Predator shaft Bites the dust .

Rob_jerrylee · Sep 22, 2009

You guys are not going to believe this and I'm still in shock , As most of you know earlier in August I broke my back up predator break shaft , well tonight I broke my original shaft , I went to the local bar because they have free pool on tuesdays , so I'm down there and a good old time .

The next thing that happen was it was my break so I get my pre routeen done and ready to break well I break and next thing you know balls are scadering like the cops showing up at a high school kegger and my shaft in two peaces on the table .

So now I have one shaft in the shop and another snapped in two , I'm about at the end of my wits with predator break shafts . I love there playing shafts but I'm about to switch to another shaft .

Here's a couple pictures of tonights distruction .

scottyr44 · Sep 22, 2009

When you break do you come down and hit the rail with your stick? Over time this might lead to weakness in the wood around that huge insert.

Poolhalljunkie · Sep 22, 2009

Shaft

Any chance you are breaking like Sigel? if so you are putting the most stress on the weakest part of shaft. I would go with a solid maple shaft or even a purple heart shaft.

Rob_jerrylee · Sep 22, 2009

scottyr44 said:
When you break do you come down and hit the rail with your stick? Over time this might lead to weakness in the wood around that huge insert.

I'm not quite sure what you mean , when I break from the rail I follow threw and sometimes I do bend the shaft but not enough to put that much stress on it to break .

Poolhalljunkie said:
Any chance you are breaking like Sigel? if so you are putting the most stress on the weakest part of shaft. I would go with a solid maple shaft or even a purple heart shaft.

No I don't even think I could bend it like mike thats way to much .

8power8 · Sep 22, 2009

scottyr44 said:
When you break do you come down and hit the rail with your stick? Over time this might lead to weakness in the wood around that huge insert.

I was thinking the same thing, this happen to me as well and now i use a diffrent break (where the shaft does nt bend) and a diffrent shaft smaller insert. Best of luck with finding another good breaker and a new technique with same results.

ShootingArts · Sep 22, 2009

Looks like an adhesive failure

Rob_jerrylee said:
You guys are not going to believe this and I'm still in shock , As most of you know earlier in August I broke my back up predator break shaft , well tonight I broke my original shaft , I went to the local bar because they have free pool on tuesdays , so I'm down there and a good old time .

The next thing that happen was it was my break so I get my pre routeen done and ready to break well I break and next thing you know balls are scadering like the cops showing up at a high school kegger and my shaft in two peaces on the table .

So now I have one shaft in the shop and another snapped in two , I'm about at the end of my wits with predator break shafts . I love there playing shafts but I'm about to switch to another shaft .

Assuming that you haven't done any clean-up after the breakage this looks like an adhesive failure. Break style can certainly add to the problem but it looks like the bond failed around about fifty percent of the insert. After that it was just an accident waiting to happen. I could be wrong, certainly wouldn't be the first time, but from these images I would think Predator would stand behind this shaft with no problem except the loss of time. Seems like you posted pictures of the other one breaking too, mind adding those pictures to this thread for comparison?

Hu

Rob_jerrylee · Sep 22, 2009

ShootingArts said:
Assuming that you haven't done any clean-up after the breakage this looks like an adhesive failure. Break style can certainly add to the problem but it looks like the bond failed around about fifty percent of the insert. After that it was just an accident waiting to happen. I could be wrong, certainly wouldn't be the first time, but from these images I would think Predator would stand behind this shaft with no problem except the loss of time. Seems like you posted pictures of the other one breaking too, mind adding those pictures to this thread for comparison?

Hu

Here's the first shaft that I broke back in August

And here's the shaft that I broke tonight .

JoeyInCali · Sep 22, 2009

The insert sure looks like it's acting like a wedge to me.
That collar being part of the collar instead of a tube over the maple tenon, is not helping.

ShootingArts · Sep 22, 2009

Same problem

Looks like the same problem with both shafts, the adhesive failed around the tapered part of the collar. After that, no surprise Joey is a sharp guy, Joey is absolutely right. The design of the collar works as a wedge. Also once the adhesive is no longer preventing movement there is a stress riser at the base of the threads, exactly where the collar/insert broke on your first shaft.

I mentioned it looked like about a 50% adhesive failure on your second shaft, the one you showed pictures of first in this thread. The second set of pictures indicates a 100% adhesive failure above the threads and then the insert was free to flex at the base of the threads where it eventually broke.

Hu

poolhustler · Sep 22, 2009

Amazing to me how thin the wood is around the collar.!!!

Seems like that area would be super weak.

Thunder Thighs · Sep 22, 2009

Looks like it's time to try an OB break shaft

manwon · Sep 23, 2009

JoeyInCali said:
The insert sure looks like it's acting like a wedge to me.
That collar being part of the collar instead of a tube over the maple tenon, is not helping.

I agree with you Joey, and I think your observation hit the nail on the head. I looks like by decreasing the size of the insert or by just using a Phenolic collar and a standard Unilock insert they would have less problems long term. I have seen the same problem occur many times with the Universal Smart shafts. In fact the design is exactly the way the Smart shaft inserts and the Smart shafts are made. I wounder if they are made by the same factory in China. I am going to send copies of these photo's my Representative at Cue and Case sales and see what I can find out. I will post a follow up when I get an answer.

Majic · Sep 23, 2009

Looks like it was wacked pretty hard to me....temper temper !!

poolplayer2093 · Sep 23, 2009

you could save yourself a headache and a half by buying american. there're plenty of cue makers right here on az that can build you a break cue that breaks just as well as a bk2 for around the same costs.

that's a guess though i could be wrong

mdavis228 · Sep 23, 2009

I tried a friend's Pred break cue once, and it felt to me like the joint was "giving up". Once was enough.
I use an X-Breaker - zero give up in it.

ratcues · Sep 23, 2009

I see a lot of breaks just like this. IMO, its a flaw in the design. The phenolic collar and tenon are one piece. If it were a separate collar, made longer and at a smaller diameter, it would be stronger. If they would use the same phenolic insert as the 314-2 at the joint, this wouldn't happen.

Rob_jerrylee · Sep 23, 2009

I will be E-mailing predator today and sending the pictures as well , I'm getting a little bit tired of this , as one poster asked me if I break like Mike Segel and my answer is no because to me that's just silly , there's no need to bend the shaft to that extream .

This is now the second time this is happened to me at first I was like wow there must have been a flaw well this is the second time around I think there's more of a problem with all the shafts them selfs .

Now I shoot with a 314-2 for my playing cue and haven't ever had a problem not once .

I'll tell you this I really don't care what predator says for there warrenty about the whole 30 days and that's it well I don't care if I have to climb the ladder to get a new on but I refuse to pay for this , when you can clearly see that the joint is hardly glued on .

So we will see how this goes , my first one that I got from Seyberts that I broke in August I'm sending back friday and they gave me no problems what so ever about sending it back after the 30 day warrenty so well see what happens .

Jason Robichaud · Sep 23, 2009

The issue I have is how quickly the wood breaks. This is due to extreme pressure in a very localized area. If the pin's shape was an issue, the wood should split down the shaft... not break across grain. Maybe you push yourself up with the cue after breaking... put it on the floor and bend shaft cause of scratch etc. I have been around wood my entire live and this isn't wood failing or a glue problem. This is a stress fracture on the wood.

I think pred. will sell you another shaft, can't see them replacing it!

RBC · Sep 23, 2009

manwon said:
I agree with you Joey, and I think your observation hit the nail on the head. I looks like by decreasing the size of the insert or by just using a Phenolic collar and a standard Unilock insert they would have less problems long term. I have seen the same problem occur many times with the Universal Smart shafts. In fact the design is exactly the way the Smart shaft inserts and the Smart shafts are made. I wounder if they are made by the same factory in China. I am going to send copies of these photo's my Representative at Cue and Case sales and see what I can find out. I will post a follow up when I get an answer.

Craig,

The answer is yes, Predator uses the same manufacturer in China as Cue and Case Sales. I am not 100%, pretty sure that Cue and Case had the Smart shafts made in the same plant.

We do offer our Break Shaft, by OB Cues in the UniLoc joint. Our shaft comes with the Samsara Break Tip, which is leather and meets all the new BCA rules and regulations. It also gives a better feel and cue ball control.

And, it's 100% Made in the USA!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

Ball Banger · Sep 23, 2009

MY .02

My 314-2 shaft seems to ding more than any cue I have ever had. While I like the hit, I sure get tired of having the shaft refinished to take out the dings. And I am paranoid about taking care not to ding it.

Another Predator shaft Bites the dust .

Bustamante's # 1 fan

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

Bustamante's # 1 fan

AzB Silver Member

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!

Bustamante's # 1 fan

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!

AzB Silver Member

I'm your Huckleberry

"WARLOCK 1"

With The Lights ON !!

AzB Silver Member

AzB Gold Member

No yodeling, please.

Bustamante's # 1 fan

AzB Silver Member

Deceased

AzB Silver Member