Treachery in the IPT qualifier....

pokerhammer · Feb 18, 2006

I just read where some of these morons playing in the Hard Times IPT qualifier were making deals to bank the 8 in yesterdays matches to split the bonus money that KT was offering. This is unfrickenbelievable. All of these idiots are playing to get in the most lucrative tour that they will ever see and they are bringing their treachery into it for a couple of thousand dollars. Personally I would boot their asses out of the qualifier and any future IPT events. This is why pool will never succeed as a mainline sport. The old saying that one bad apple ruins the lot certainly applies here except there are a lot more bad apples than good ones unfortunately.

onepocketchump · Feb 18, 2006

pokerhammer said:
I just read where some of these morons playing in the Hard Times IPT qualifier were making deals to bank the 8 in yesterdays matches to split the bonus money that KT was offering. This is unfrickenbelievable. All of these idiots are playing to get in the most lucrative tour that they will ever see and they are bringing their treachery into it for a couple of thousand dollars. Personally I would boot their asses out of the qualifier and any future IPT events. This is why pool will never succeed as a mainline sport. The old saying that one bad apple ruins the lot certainly applies here except there are a lot more bad apples than good ones unfortunately.

You don't even know what happened. All you know is what was written on the IPT website. It's not like their isn't ever any cheating in poker. Several of my friends have told me how easy it is for several players to rob cash games on the internet. And I have seen players collude in real cash games. It's really hypocritical for a poker player to throw stones about cheating in pool.

We don't know what happened, and I for one think it was incredibly tacky for the IPT to allow some vague reference to undesired behavior to be posted on their website. It would have been better to handle it privately and then address the issue of such behavior in the player's meetings. The IPT is just out of their minds if they think they can prevent human beings from trying to maximize their income with any means they think they can get away with.

This is why I think the proposition was flawed. Just don't offer silly things like that which undermine the "integrity" of the game and you won't be faced with players using it to undermine the integrity of the game.

John

Nick B · Feb 18, 2006

What did you expect from the Gimmick Master

What did you expect...what to expect next:
$500.00 for 2 ball combinations
$1000.00 for 3 ball combinations
$5000.00 for 4+ ball combinations
$100.00 bonus for shooting one handed
$200.00 for twirling your cue like Tom Cruz

I bet by next year you'll have to wear a "Natural Cure" patch on your back.

Shame on us all.

Nick
Question...why is the big payday always next year?

jjinfla · Feb 18, 2006

Nick B said:
I bet by next year you'll have to wear a "Natural Cure" patch on your back.

Nick

And that is bad?

I just watched a preview of the Daytona Race where they talked with a couple champions of old. Besides admitting that the teams are far superior today they said more emphasis is placed on everything else and the actual race is secondary. Said the teams now have more PR people on the team then they had crew members in the old days. That being the 80's.

Nick B · Feb 18, 2006

Hey I'm all for a big sponsor

The company I work for sponsors soccer, F1 and has their name on Stadiums. I'm all for the ability for companies to show off their product. My comments are more a fuction of what I and others in the news media think of KT.

Nick

Banker Burt · Feb 18, 2006

IPT advisory committee

I don't know who the people are inside the IPT other than Deno and KT, and neither of them personally at that.

But I will say that I do not think they are very bright nor knowledgeable about the nature of pool players and the inner games that go on within this sport.

It seems that because KT has and is throwing a bunch of money around and thinks whatever his notions might be he can do. This is not good for him nor the already questionable integrity of our game.

Someone needs to stand up to KT and flat tell him to get a grip on this IPT thing. From the player selection process to his rediculous bonus prizes, this is starting to seem more like a circus and an embarassment to those quality people that do exist in our game.

Just my opinion...

onepocketchump · Feb 18, 2006

Nick B said:
The company I work for sponsors soccer, F1 and has their name on Stadiums. I'm all for the ability for companies to show off their product. My comments are more a fuction of what I and others in the news media think of KT.

Nick

Are you in the news media?

I find it hilarious that people want to crucify Kevin for throwing money around when it's a drop in the bucket compared to what mainstream corporations throw around to influence people and get their way.

Why don't you tell us who you work for? I bet that your company has a few corporate skeletons.

While you are denouncing Kevin for the so-called gimmicks he has sold and for producing a book that contains the same thing as found in hundreds of other places why aren't you "in the media" going after the corporate criminals that are raping the world's citizens. Why don't you denounce the cigarette companies that sponsor sporting events? How about the fast food companies that push their crap in schools? How does the corporate media treat that?

There is nothing wrong with a millionaire with an ego throwing money around. The media celebrates them all day as long they are corporate darlings.

Kevin must just be a "stupid" millionaire I guess. I can't recall ever that anyone has managed to get 80 players to pony up $2000 each to chase a dream. Some of you would love to see this fail so you could have the perverse pleasure of saying you were right. Well, guess what? It has already succeeded even if there is not another IPT event ever. Because it shows that professional pool players are definitely willing to go for it when the opportunity is there.

I guess Kevin can afford to "throw away" tens of thousands on his whims since he has already proven himself so far with the IPT.

John

thebigdog · Feb 18, 2006

pokerhammer said:
I just read where some of these morons playing in the Hard Times IPT qualifier were making deals to bank the 8 in yesterdays matches to split the bonus money that KT was offering. This is unfrickenbelievable. All of these idiots are playing to get in the most lucrative tour that they will ever see and they are bringing their treachery into it for a couple of thousand dollars. Personally I would boot their asses out of the qualifier and any future IPT events. This is why pool will never succeed as a mainline sport. The old saying that one bad apple ruins the lot certainly applies here except there are a lot more bad apples than good ones unfortunately.

Honestly does this even surprise you? Anyone who has been around pool players for any length of time should know that there are always going to be someone looking to scam an easy buck. Pool players must be the most self destructive bunch of people ever. The eyes are never looking ahead, only whats right in front of them. I think pro pool took a serious beating when The Challenge of Champions was at the Mirage back in the 90's. There were rumors at that one that the pro's involved had fixed that event, to make the longshot win the thing when the sports book had placed odds on the tournament. Guess who won? It was the guy who was like 20-1 longshot. You don't need to give pool players very much rope, they can hang themselves with a couple of inches.

Rude Dog · Feb 18, 2006

So what DID happen? Not much info on the web site.

jnav447 · Feb 18, 2006

Saga of a pool player

Hypothetical story: Your name is Jimmy. Started playing pool when you were 15, had a talent for the game, rapidly improved, and got hooked. ALL you wanted to do was play. You had a girlfriend (who you lost cause she didn't like hanging around pool rooms), friends (who bailed out, same reason), part-time job (which you lost because of your pool jones), older car (which broke down and you couldn't afford to fix it cause there was no action, and no more part-time job), plans to be an engineer (which disappeared when you quit school to play pool full-time) and, finally, dental work that needed to be done that got delayed. No problem, I'm in dead stroke, my 1-pocket game has really improved, and one of the old-timers says I'm ready to go on the road. I take off with this guy that will stake me, we travel around the south, sometimes sleeping in the car if we didn't make a score (gotta keep our gambling bankroll intact), got beat up and rolled at one joint, got stiffed at another joint (after posting the bet, they lost and about 20 of them wouldn't let us out with the dough), so lonely I could scream, but, hey, I'm building up my chops to be a pro. After 3 weeks, we limp back home, busted, my "backer" telling me I owe him money, which was never our agreement; he then tells everyone connected to pool in our town that I'm a no-good nit, dog it for the cash, etc. I'm dead busted but I scrounge up the entry fee for a local tournement, win the thing ($600, yippee!), go to a regional tournement, win $1200...hey, this pool stuff is sweet! Go back and forth like this for years, living off my cue, no girl, no decent food, no credit, no real friends. But...I suddenly jump up in speed (who knows why) and start making some good scores, finally have some money, and am able to enter a qualifier for a new tour. It takes all my money to get there, fade the high entry fee, and spring for room and board. Man, everyone is a champion; if I don't win or finish 2nd, I get zip, nada, bupkus. Hey, the guy is saying if we bank the 8 we get a big dime? Sign me up, Scottie! Never got a chance to bank the 8, finished 8th (might as well have been 80th); what's this...people are saying pool players are scumbags for trying to survive. Wow, I don't think I'm a scumbag. I'm just a guy who loves pool more than anything and trying to stay afloat. Just think, if I'd stayed in school, I might be an engineer right now...nobody calls them scumbags.

sjm · Feb 18, 2006

Though, on the suface, this kind of behavior is very regrettable, it brings to light the utter absurdity of a tournament format in which all but two in a very large field walk away empty handed.

I don't like this kind of unscrupulous behavior by th eplayers, but it was to be expected in this absolutely bizarre format, and I don't reckon those doing "business" of this kind are deserving of more than the mildest of reprimands.

What is unfortunate is that the IPT, in my opinion, is trying to be generous here. A good idea gone bad, in my view, for if the IPT was prepared to throw all this extra money into the kitty, they would have done better to pay down to at least eight places and dispense with gimmick bonuses.

crampysgarage · Feb 18, 2006

Rude Dog said:
So what DID happen? Not much info on the web site.

What happened was that a couple of idiots [AKA, pool hustlers] decided to "agree" to set up the other guy for an easy 8 ball bank and split the thou... the really stupid part was when they high-fived each other after the successful banks... I can tell you that it actually did happen because I was there and witnessed these morons ruin it for everyone else.... once they made their little show, the folks running the tournament stopped the promotion for the rest of the event.

As for you other cry babies throwing rocks at Kevin and Deno... I agree with 'onepocketchump' when he suggests that you complain about the real creeps like cigarette companies or fast food companies for foisting their poison on the public instead of whining about a guy that may just be the first one to bring some real money, creativity, and recognition to our sport for the first time since the first half of the 20th century when the game of Billiards was bigger then baseball or football.

As for you 'Nick B', I'm guessin that you won't be applyin anytime soon for a tour card cuz you'd have to wear one of those "shameful" Natural Cures patches on your back even though you'd actually be makin some real money playin pool for the first time in your life... I'm so impressed by your sense of dignity dude. Keep playin for those big $10 payouts, I'm sure that you'll be able to sleep better knowing that you didn't sell out.....

JPB · Feb 18, 2006

crampysgarage said:
What happened was that a couple of idiots [AKA, pool hustlers] decided to "agree" to set up the other guy for an easy 8 ball bank and split the thou... the really stupid part was when they high-fived each other after the successful banks... I can tell you that it actually did happen because I was there and witnessed these morons ruin it for everyone else.... once they made their little show, the folks running the tournament stopped the promotion for the rest of the event.

As for you other cry babies throwing rocks at Kevin and Deno... I agree with 'onepocketchump' when he suggests that you complain about the real creeps like cigarette companies or fast food companies for foisting their poison on the public instead of whining about a guy that may just be the first one to bring some real money, creativity, and recognition to our sport for the first time since the first half of the 20th century when the game of Billiards was bigger then baseball or football.

As for you 'Nick B', I'm guessin that you won't be applyin anytime soon for a tour card cuz you'd have to wear one of those "shameful" Natural Cures patches on your back even though you'd actually be makin some real money playin pool for the first time in your life... I'm so impressed by your sense of dignity dude. Keep playin for those big $10 payouts, I'm sure that you'll be able to sleep better knowing that you didn't sell out.....

Who were they? If they were dumb enough to high five etc... they weren't looking for anonymity.

No excuses for what these bums did. Whatever their circumstances, they scammed somebody out of money.

AuntyDan · Feb 19, 2006

jnav447 said:
Hypothetical story: Your name is Jimmy. Started playing pool when you were 15, had a talent for the game, rapidly improved, and got hooked....Just think, if I'd stayed in school, I might be an engineer right now...nobody calls them scumbags.

Tap tap tap.

Southpaw · Feb 19, 2006

jnav447 said:
Hypothetical story: Your name is Jimmy. Started playing pool when you were 15, had a talent for the game, rapidly improved, and got hooked. ALL you wanted to do was play. You had a girlfriend (who you lost cause she didn't like hanging around pool rooms), friends (who bailed out, same reason), part-time job (which you lost because of your pool jones), older car (which broke down and you couldn't afford to fix it cause there was no action, and no more part-time job), plans to be an engineer (which disappeared when you quit school to play pool full-time) and, finally, dental work that needed to be done that got delayed. No problem, I'm in dead stroke, my 1-pocket game has really improved, and one of the old-timers says I'm ready to go on the road. I take off with this guy that will stake me, we travel around the south, sometimes sleeping in the car if we didn't make a score (gotta keep our gambling bankroll intact), got beat up and rolled at one joint, got stiffed at another joint (after posting the bet, they lost and about 20 of them wouldn't let us out with the dough), so lonely I could scream, but, hey, I'm building up my chops to be a pro. After 3 weeks, we limp back home, busted, my "backer" telling me I owe him money, which was never our agreement; he then tells everyone connected to pool in our town that I'm a no-good nit, dog it for the cash, etc. I'm dead busted but I scrounge up the entry fee for a local tournement, win the thing ($600, yippee!), go to a regional tournement, win $1200...hey, this pool stuff is sweet! Go back and forth like this for years, living off my cue, no girl, no decent food, no credit, no real friends. But...I suddenly jump up in speed (who knows why) and start making some good scores, finally have some money, and am able to enter a qualifier for a new tour. It takes all my money to get there, fade the high entry fee, and spring for room and board. Man, everyone is a champion; if I don't win or finish 2nd, I get zip, nada, bupkus. Hey, the guy is saying if we bank the 8 we get a big dime? Sign me up, Scottie! Never got a chance to bank the 8, finished 8th (might as well have been 80th); what's this...people are saying pool players are scumbags for trying to survive. Wow, I don't think I'm a scumbag. I'm just a guy who loves pool more than anything and trying to stay afloat. Just think, if I'd stayed in school, I might be an engineer right now...nobody calls them scumbags.

Hmmmm....So basically what you are saying is that it is ok to be treacherous as long as you can say "welll...i was just trying to survive in this profession that I chose"? Are you for insider trading and embezzelment too? How about a Major League Manager betting against his team and then making crucial decisions that cause them to lose? All could plea the same justification.

Southpaw

jnav447 · Feb 19, 2006

I'm not saying anything. I just made up a yarn and hit submit. You take from it what you will. Question: are you (Southpaw) gonna stalk me and rag on my posts? If so, just be upfront and I'll put you on ignore and keep most of my equanimity intact.

Banker Burt · Feb 19, 2006

not a well planned tour

I cannot believe that so many people think that just because there is a bunch of money thrown at 150 players will in some way make our sport better.

This is just my opinion but the actions of the players scamming KT is only the beginning. It seems those in charge of this tour have no idea what it can mean for the sport at LARGE in the long run.

I have also heard many people say that talking against KT and the IPT is ignorant. Well have you listened to how KT talks about all the people that have for decades tried to make our sport better?

And do you think for a second that KT does not have a hidden marketing agenda and that the players are just the pawns to accomplish his financial goals?

NaturalCure may, and I truly hope it does not for those players selected, turn into a NaturalDisaster for our sport.

Southpaw · Feb 19, 2006

jnav447 said:
I'm not saying anything. I just made up a yarn and hit submit. You take from it what you will. Question: are you (Southpaw) gonna stalk me and rag on my posts? If so, just be upfront and I'll put you on ignore and keep most of my equanimity intact.

Just responding to a public forum.Take from it what you will.......But, I guess the answer to your question is "YES". I will rag anyone who is in favor of treachery!

Southpaw

enzo · Feb 19, 2006

people like you are the problem

pokerhammer said:
I just read where some of these morons playing in the Hard Times IPT qualifier were making deals to bank the 8 in yesterdays matches to split the bonus money that KT was offering. This is unfrickenbelievable. All of these idiots are playing to get in the most lucrative tour that they will ever see and they are bringing their treachery into it for a couple of thousand dollars. Personally I would boot their asses out of the qualifier and any future IPT events. This is why pool will never succeed as a mainline sport. The old saying that one bad apple ruins the lot certainly applies here except there are a lot more bad apples than good ones unfortunately.

I'm really getting tired of hearing this stuff, and I feel it's posts like this that perpetuate the negative sterotype of pool players. Have you been down there to see how the players are dressed, how they are acting, how well they are conducting themselves? From what I can tell pool has made a remarkable amount of forward progress within the past year with respect to player professionalism.

One thing I would like to note here to drive home my point.... pro golfers tend to be thought of as respectable, and trustworthy it seems. What if the situation were reversed, and pro golfers were the ones with no money in their sport and had to scrape by to do what they love. Then, they had to travel and put up a $2000 entry fee to enter a qualifier. Do you think these golfers would not take advantage of a situation much like these pool players ALLEGEDLY have? I know they would, as would people in all walks of life that are short on cash. I just think pool players are unjustly categorized strictly because of their financial woes.

If you want to confront and/or make people aware of a particular pool players poor behavior or attitude, feel free. But don't make sweeping judgements about pool players in general, especially when you really have no idea as to what you are talking about.

macguy · Feb 19, 2006

sjm said:
if the IPT was prepared to throw all this extra money into the kitty, they would have done better to pay down to at least eight places and dispense with gimmick bonuses.

The most sensible statement of the thread.

Treachery in the IPT qualifier....

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onepocketchump

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