CP2CP Aiming Chart

HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aloha all,

I created a rudimentary chart that gives examples of Contact Point To Contact Point (CP2CP) aiming.

I tried to keep the dimensions to scale in order to make it look as close as possible to what it would look like on a real table.

If you have ever listened to the TAR video where SVB tried to explain his aiming method, I think it would look something like this when put on paper. When asked how he aimed, he responded that he used the "edges of his cue"...left edge for left cuts and right edge for right cuts.

I use this method and then adjust, depending upon the amount of squirt my cue has. Nothing is perfect, but very close is better than "I don't have a clue where I aim".
 

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HawaiianEye said:
... If you have ever listened to the TAR video where SVB tried to explain his aiming method, I think it would look something like this when put on paper. When asked how he aimed, he responded that he used the "edges of his cue"...left edge for left cuts and right edge for right cuts. ...
Click to expand...

I think what Shane said on that video about his aiming method was quite different -- that, for normal cut shots, he aligns one of three things with the outside edge (the one farther from the target) of the object ball -- the left edge of the stick, the center of the stick, or the right edge of the stick -- with the choice depending on how thin the cut is.

Of course this requires some adjustments depending on the cut angle, and some different method is needed for real thin or real thick cuts. There was a long thread about all this about 3 1/2 years ago, after the TAR video: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=260109
 
HawaiianEye -- How do you handle it when your stick, with its inside edge on the CP2CP line, would be beyond the miscue limit? Shift the stick just a little toward center cue ball to achieve safe cueing? Shift all the way to center cue ball? Shift parallel to the CP2CP line? Pivot away from the CP2CP line keeping your back hand in place? Something else?

Another question -- where is your vision center when you shoot? Above the CP2CP line? Above the center of the cue? Above the center of the CB? Elsewhere?
 
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HawaiianEye,
You are employing side of the ferrule in your aiming and I like that for it gets you to a parallel path line toward the center of the CB near the CP2CP line. This though could put inside English on the CB that could result in squirting the CB.

Then again, the resulting swerve, if any, could put the CB back on the CP2CP line.

That it works for you and others is what's important.

Be well.
 
AtLarge said:
HawaiianEye -- How do you handle it when your stick, with its inside edge on the CP2CP line, would be beyond the miscue limit? Shift the stick just a little toward center cue ball to achieve safe cueing? Shift all the way to center cue ball? Shift parallel to the CP2CP line? Pivot away from the CP2CP line keeping your back hand in place? Something else?

Another question -- where is your vision center when you shoot? Above the CP2CP line? Above the center of the cue? Above the center of the CB? Elsewhere?
Click to expand...

I adjust my cue line if I "think" I'm approaching (or going outside) the miscue limit. This is based upon how much squirt my cue has and how straight my stroke is working at the time.

FWIW, I think some people can get away with hitting the ball a bit further outside than other people. That requires a STRAIGHT stroke, a good chalked tip, and confidence. I hit the ball at the extreme edges and get away with it MOST of the time. I have had and continue to have people ask me how I get away with hitting so far out on the ball.

I've been meaning to record a short video showing how far you can hit outside without miscuing. If I can get my buddy to stand behind me with my phone cam this weekend, I'll see if I can make something that will show you what I mean.

Also, I DON'T plan my shots and patterns to play this far outside unless it is the only way I can position myself to get on the next ball. Shooting shots at this extreme should be the "exception" and not the "norm".

Some people look at the object ball last and some people look at the cue ball last. I can and have done both, but I prefer looking at the cue ball as I strike it. If my cue is lined up correctly and my stroke is straight, I should hit the object ball where I'm aiming. I want to make sure my tip is hitting the cue ball in the precise spot I think I'm aiming at.

When you get right down to it, everything is a bit of a "blend" or "mixing" of various factors all occurring at the same time. If you are knowledgeable enough and have played for a long time, hopefully you'll be able to "adjust" your "mixtures" so that everything is working the way you want it to.
 
HawaiianEye said:
I adjust my cue line if I "think" I'm approaching (or going outside) the miscue limit. This is based upon how much squirt my cue has and how straight my stroke is working at the time.

FWIW, I think some people can get away with hitting the ball a bit further outside than other people. That requires a STRAIGHT stroke, a good chalked tip, and confidence. I hit the ball at the extreme edges and get away with it MOST of the time. I have had and continue to have people ask me how I get away with hitting so far out on the ball.

I've been meaning to record a short video showing how far you can hit outside without miscuing. If I can get my buddy to stand behind me with my phone cam this weekend, I'll see if I can make something that will show you what I mean.

Also, I DON'T plan my shots and patterns to play this far outside unless it is the only way I can position myself to get on the next ball. Shooting shots at this extreme should be the "exception" and not the "norm".

Some people look at the object ball last and some people look at the cue ball last. I can and have done both, but I prefer looking at the cue ball as I strike it. If my cue is lined up correctly and my stroke is straight, I should hit the object ball where I'm aiming. I want to make sure my tip is hitting the cue ball in the precise spot I think I'm aiming at.

When you get right down to it, everything is a bit of a "blend" or "mixing" of various factors all occurring at the same time. If you are knowledgeable enough and have played for a long time, hopefully you'll be able to "adjust" your "mixtures" so that everything is working the way you want it to.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. But you didn't really answer the specific questions, so please read my post again, if you're willing.
 
AtLarge said:
HawaiianEye -- How do you handle it when your stick, with its inside edge on the CP2CP line, would be beyond the miscue limit? Shift the stick just a little toward center cue ball to achieve safe cueing? Shift all the way to center cue ball? Shift parallel to the CP2CP line? Pivot away from the CP2CP line keeping your back hand in place? Something else?

Another question -- where is your vision center when you shoot? Above the CP2CP line? Above the center of the cue? Above the center of the CB? Elsewhere?
Click to expand...

I played some yesterday and tried to get a feel for what I'm doing to explain it to you, but it's kind of hard to do when I've got everything sort of programmed into "auto pilot" from doing it so many years.

I don't think any of my aim points are "beyond" the miscue limit, unless I am stroking sloppy. I never shoot a shot that that I "think" is going to miscue. If I "think" it is going to miscue, I do something differently (shift the stick parallel a bit over toward the center is the most common thing). I shot several shots yesterday at the very edge of the cue ball, like in my diagram, and I never miscued.

I'm still experimenting to get it just right because I started wearing contacts, but when I see "clearly" I'm directly over the CP2CP line.
 
Here is the chart with clocks substituted for the balls. If you notice the contact point on the object ball in this chart it is at what I call "4:30"...halfway between the 4 and the 5. Every angle in the chart has the cue aiming point aimed at 4:30 on the object ball.

If you notice something else, the cue aiming point on the cue ball is aimed at 10:30 on the cue ball as well...exactly the opposite position on the clock from 4:30 on the object ball.

I was walking around the table rather quickly yesterday showing some people you can "shoot the clock" and make balls without really looking at the pockets. I was calling out the times as I walked and hit the balls into the pockets left and right, just by knowing "what time the shot was". It doesn't matter where on the table the two balls are...the time zones always match.

There are variations of this method and it can be called by a variety of things, but the outcome is the same. Not everyone sees everything the same...you see balls....I see clocks.

FWIW...make sure your clock is always upright.

I can't answer every question that may arise on here because it is too time consuming, but I love showing people how this actually works on a pool table.

Aloha.
 

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HawaiianEye said:
Here is the chart with clocks substituted for the balls. If you notice the contact point on the object ball in this chart it is at what I call "4:30"...halfway between the 4 and the 5. Every angle in the chart has the cue aiming point aimed at 4:30.

If you notice something else, the cue aiming point on the cue ball is aimed at 10:30 as well...exactly the opposite position on the clock from 4:30 on the object ball.

I was walking around the table rather quickly yesterday showing some people you can "shoot the clock" and make balls without really looking at the pockets. I was calling out the times as I walked and hit the balls into the pockets left and right, just by knowing "what time the shot was". It doesn't matter where on the table the two balls are...the time zones always match.

There are variations of this method and it can be called by a variety of things, but the outcome is the same. Not everyone sees everything the same...you see balls....I see clocks.

FWIW...make sure your clock is always upright.

I can't answer every question that may arise on here because it is too time consuming, but I love showing people how this actually works on a pool table.

Aloha.
Click to expand...

It would be really cool if you showed us on video what you're doing :)
 
HawaiianEye said:
Aloha all,

I created a rudimentary chart that gives examples of Contact Point To Contact Point (CP2CP) aiming.

I tried to keep the dimensions to scale in order to make it look as close as possible to what it would look like on a real table.

If you have ever listened to the TAR video where SVB tried to explain his aiming method, I think it would look something like this when put on paper. When asked how he aimed, he responded that he used the "edges of his cue"...left edge for left cuts and right edge for right cuts.

I use this method and then adjust, depending upon the amount of squirt my cue has. Nothing is perfect, but very close is better than "I don't have a clue where I aim".
Click to expand...

Hey HE.
I have been using this method before Shane was even born.

I cant remember who told me about it or when.

An easy way to see this is to place an OB and QB on the table for a 15deg cut. Mark the spot where the QB is then remove it. (this is now and imaginary QB)

From a standing position line your body onto the shot line. Using the center of your shaft bend over to shooting position and point it (thru the center of the imaginary QB) to the CP on the OB and shoot the shot.

While still in the shooting position now use the right side of the shaft or left side of the shaft to point at the CP on the OB. Use different types of spin on the imaginary QB

You will soon start to see whats going on with shaft aiming.

It may be worth mentioning that the mass of the QB is about the size of a quarter. If you try to stay within the mass when using spin you will get a better feel for the weight of the QB allowing for better control.

When I'm down in the shooting position I don't see round balls and never have, I see flat disks.

John
 
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My posts had some aiming charts attached, but I no longer see them. Is it just me, or have all the attachments disappeared?
 
I uploaded the charts again.

There must me a server problem somewhere. When I went into the "edit" mode for my posts, it still listed the chart files as attachments, but they weren't showing for some reason.
 
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