Player's Org and prize money payouts

Da Poet

Da Poet

Pool is Cool
Silver Member
Everyone has been disappointed by the prize money fiasco the IPT has created and many discussions have ensued as to what is the best way to avoid something like this from happening again. Most of the discussion has been about forming a players organization or union as some would rather see, but I believe an organization is only one component of the solution.

As an outsider, what I see is an absence of an established process for handling prize money. If the IPT, or any other tour is to continue successfully, this issue will have to be resolved sooner rather than later.

The solution has to come from the players themselves. This doesn't neccessarily mean a huge formal organization. The more organization, certainly the better, but I believe the problem of how to handle prize money can be effectively dealt with by only a few players if neccessary.

There are many different ways prize money can be handled. Some are more expensive than others and some are more cumbersome than others. What I think should happen is that the players should take the lead, and decide on a process for how prize money is best handled from this point forward.

The issues within how prize money is handled is; Which process is best, how much will it cost, and who should pay for it.

The best process is likely a simple one that allows for simple administration by both tournament holders and players alike. Whether this is an escrow, a letter of credit from a bank, or some other financial verification process, this decision should be determined by the players. There are many options here all with their pros and cons.

Any new process will have a cost. My estimate is that this cost should be under 2%, depending on the type of transaction required.

It may serve the player's interest best if these costs are deducted from the total prize money advertised.

The forms and instructions required for whatever process is favored by the players should be easily provided free of charge to any and all tournament holders. It is extremely important that the process should not be so difficult to comply with that it discourages anyone from abiding by it.

What the tournament holders get for their extra effort is assurance of attendance by players who have to invest their own money in overseas travel etc, and the players get the assurance that they will get paid, everyone is happy.

If the process is made easy for the tournament holders to follow and costs them no extra money, there is absolutely no excuse for them not to comply and by itself should be considered a red flag by anyone who is thinking about participating. A part of the process should include milestones for compliance and the players should be able to get updates on the status of these updates. I know in the case of escrow accounts, it is possible for the information to be easily accessed from the institution by anyone simply calling them.

The process could be administered by a few volunteers at first and if they get too busy with this, or it becomes too expensive, perhaps an additional percent of the prize money could be used to help cover the costs to the players administration costs, or whichever organization takes shape. The first few times are going to be the hardest, but once you get the hang of it, it all becomes automatic.

This solution has to come from the players. It can't come from the outside and it will never come from the tournament holders. All professional pool players will have to learn about how these things work the same way all other self employed folks have to. It's just another part of being in the business.

It may be as simple as a few players calling a few banks, talking to a lawyer or two (since they are already doing this anyways) to come up with an acceptable process.


I believe there is a win win solution here for everyone.
 
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I read this post with great interest. Something I have contemplated getting involved in is a "sanctioning" process whereby an added money tournament goes through a screening process and lets the playing public know the true status of the financial abilities of the event.

This would be on a voluntary basis. But if done properly, I believe it would give the players a better understanding and feeling of the viability of the event.

The process would be rather simple. To get a high rating, the promoter would have to show the added money - either in a bank escrow, attorney trust account or other such documents. The key is that it CANNOT be utilized for anything other than the prize fund.

The signups could be done on-line with a credit card to this sanctioning body. If the event gets shaky or whatever, the entries could be fully refunded. A player could monitor the event up until buying a plane ticket.

The current situation is a bad deal. More proposed events/tours fail than that actually materialize. (Remember National Pool Series, Million Dollar Tournament, Cujuroho, and several others that promised big money). The players do not have the vehicle to send in entry fees that are secured. If a new promoter was to come on the scene, would the players actually send the entry money?

This could be a vehicle to help the process.

One of the main reasons for the BCAPL getting involved in this is that league players from our organiztion are more likely to play in these top-tier events that any other leagues organizations - I feel it is my duty to help protect my players. And in the same stroke help increasd the integrity of future events.

Comments are more than welcome.

Mark Griffin, CEO
BCAPL
702-719-7665
812-987-1461 cell
 
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Two comments only on the theme of escrowed prize money:-

1. In general placing prize money put up by promoters or sponsors in escrow with any suitable third party organisation is not likely to be economically feasible or attractive for prize funds totalling less than a minimum of say $250,000/-.

2. In the case of tournaments where all of the prize fund,or a large proportion of it,consists of players entry fees, the placing of prize funds in escrow with any third party organisation would be to all intents and purposes impossible.
 
My first thought when I read this was that it is probably a little over the top to put processes like this in place for a pool tournament. Having said that IF (and it's a big if) this mess is sorted out and there is an IPT tour in 2007 you could understand players wanting something like this to be in place before spending all their $$$ on qualifiers, flights, hotels etc.
 
memikey said:
Two comments only on the theme of escrowed prize money:-

1. In general placing prize money put up by promoters or sponsors in escrow with any suitable third party organisation is not likely to be economically feasible or attractive for prize funds totalling less than a minimum of say $250,000/-.

2. In the case of tournaments where all of the prize fund,or a large proportion of it,consists of players entry fees, the placing of prize funds in escrow with any third party organisation would be to all intents and purposes impossible.
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Memikey is correct in point numer 2.

Many promoters don't have the last of the prize money until the last entry fee is paid, sometimes even paid at the door.

For any sizeable event, like the us open, where the entry fees are several hundred dollars, by several hundred players, you are looking a sizeable amount of money. (about 50k). Posting that money, perhaps months in advance, would be an impediment nearly impossible to overcome.

The one solution is that the entries would need to be recieved several weeks in advance. Possibly paid directly to the very escrow account. The cutoff to receive entries would have to be far enough in advance, that the players would be able to make travel arrangements.

I am sure that a process like this could work, though. In time, players would start choosing primarily these type of guaranteed events to go to, and others would have to follow suit. I also think, after some time, players would have no reservations aboutsending in money, and making travel arrangements to these guaranteed events.

The problem still remains with the players. Their history show that they abide by the "every man for themselves" edict, and getting them to unite behind any one entity has proved the real problem. And fyi, is still the main problem.

rg
 
NYC cue dude said:
Memikey is correct in point numer 2.

Many promoters don't have the last of the prize money until the last entry fee is paid, sometimes even paid at the door.

For any sizeable event, like the us open, where the entry fees are several hundred dollars, by several hundred players, you are looking a sizeable amount of money. (about 50k). Posting that money, perhaps months in advance, would be an impediment nearly impossible to overcome.

The one solution is that the entries would need to be recieved several weeks in advance. Possibly paid directly to the very escrow account. The cutoff to receive entries would have to be far enough in advance, that the players would be able to make travel arrangements.

I am sure that a process like this could work, though. In time, players would start choosing primarily these type of guaranteed events to go to, and others would have to follow suit. I also think, after some time, players would have no reservations aboutsending in money, and making travel arrangements to these guaranteed events.

The problem still remains with the players. Their history show that they abide by the "every man for themselves" edict, and getting them to unite behind any one entity has proved the real problem. And fyi, is still the main problem.

rg
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I don't understand why player entry fees could not be paid directly into the escrow right up to the day of the tournament. Would you or some one please explain.
Thanks

Steve
 
sde said:
I don't understand why player entry fees could not be paid directly into the escrow right up to the day of the tournament. Would you or some one please explain.
Thanks

Steve
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Because in pretty much all events (except the IPT prior to Reno) the tournament organizer is using a percentage of the entry fees to cover the setup and running costs of the tournament itself, and therefore they have to have this money available to them before and during the tournament, and not just once it is completed.

Frankly this whole issue would be moot if the tournament organizers and tour organizations were simply trustworthy, well financed and consistently capable of doing what they promised.
 
memikey said:
Two comments only on the theme of escrowed prize money:-

1. In general placing prize money put up by promoters or sponsors in escrow with any suitable third party organisation is not likely to be economically feasible or attractive for prize funds totalling less than a minimum of say $250,000/-.

2. In the case of tournaments where all of the prize fund,or a large proportion of it,consists of players entry fees, the placing of prize funds in escrow with any third party organisation would be to all intents and purposes impossible.
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I'm not sure why, but we have a major conflict of information here.


In regards to escrow accounts, I just got off the phone with my bank's business manager at Lasalle NA, and asked him how to guarrantee prize money and he said the most cost effective way is an escrow. I asked him how long it would take to set one up and he said it could be done within hours. I asked him what the minimum amount needs to be and he said you could do an escrow for a dollar if you wanted. I asked him if this process could be done within a two week period, he said it could be done in far less. I asked what's the shortest amount of time, he said it's up to you, as long as the money has been deposited into the account, it can be distributed at any time.

Obviously, this is the condensed version of the conversation.

I'm expecting another call to be returned sometime today from a business accounts manager at the same bank from a different branch to follow up.

If someone has more experience at this kind of thing than I do, please jump in.

As best I understand it, the critcal parts of an escrow is the contract and who the releasing agent is. I'm going to ask a few more questions about this in the next call.

Again, I don't know why there is such a disparity between our sources here.
 
I would think the hardest part to guarantee would be the added money. That is the part in question, as the entry fees can be figured out. If the TD/promoter needs funds to run the tournament from the prize fund, the amount should clearly be stated so that total prize money can be ascertained.

What is to prevent them from heisting the entry fees which can be larger than the added $? I'm not sure, but if there is an escrow account and the added $ is already accounted for, then anything added to that (entry fees) is also accounted for.

Of course, another question that begs to be answered is, what prevents the TD from dispersing ANY of the funds to himself at any time anyway?
 
As a part time promoter of professional pool tournaments, I would like to add my input to this conversation.

I have personally been responsible (sometimes in partnership with a casino) the prize funds in nearly 100 tournaments during the last 20 years. I am proud to say that every dime promised, has been paid in every one of these events. Only on one occasion, did the tournament account have a shortfall at the end, when it came time to pay (The 1993 Los Angeles Open). On that occasion, I personally deposited $25,000 into the account to make sure all checks would clear. And I walked Mark Tadd into the bank to cash his check for 20K.

That has been the way I have done business, by opening a separate bank account specifically for receipts that come in (including entry fees) and expenses that go out for an event. All Added Monies are included in that account. A checking account is usually sufficient to meet these purposes. And at the end of the tournament there has always been enough money to pay all the bills, including the prize money. Except on the one occasion noted above.

I value my reputation in the billiard community and know that is the most important asset I have, my good name. That being said, I would have no problem putting all Added Monies into an escrow account if that was asked of me. By now, I think most, if not all players, know that I am going to pay whatever is promised in any tournament I am associated with.

In the U.S. Bar Table Championships this year we advertised $30,000 in Added Monies, even though the casino was only adding $20,000. We were optimistic that enough monies would come in thru Qualifiers to add the additional funds. If somehow this did not work out, I was committed to paying the extra 10K out of my pocket if need be. The marketing people at the casino were concerned and I assured them I would make up any arrears. I did in fact, send them a check for $10,000 one month prior to the event. This money was added to the account set up for this tournament at the casino.

It personally peeves me to no end when a promoter fails to make good on promised monies. It makes all pool promoters look bad, myself included, and I don't like it. Perhaps that is why this fiasco with the IPT has irked me so much. If he had closed up shop and said it wasn't working out, I wouldn't have minded so much. But to hold a tournament and then not pay, really raised my hackles up. Mr. Trudough has besmirched the reputation of all U.S. promoters by his actions. And in so doing has made an already difficult job even harder.
 
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rackmsuckr said:
I would think the hardest part to guarantee would be the added money. That is the part in question, as the entry fees can be figured out. If the TD/promoter needs funds to run the tournament from the prize fund, the amount should clearly be stated so that total prize money can be ascertained.

What is to prevent them from heisting the entry fees which can be larger than the added $? I'm not sure, but if there is an escrow account and the added $ is already accounted for, then anything added to that (entry fees) is also accounted for.

Of course, another question that begs to be answered is, what prevents the TD from dispersing ANY of the funds to himself at any time anyway?
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Linda, I'm in a rush, but the last question depends on the escrow contract and who the releasing agent is. If a TD is the releasing agent and decides to violate the contract and start cutting checks for himself (why neccessarily a "him" Linda? :D ), he's stealing. Call the police.

This is where a players association, or a players rep comes in. You could set up the escrow account with a players rep as the releasing agent. It can be set up so that once the promoter has placed the money into the account, they no longer have access to it.

This is oversimplified and please don't just take my word for it. Please call a bank and ask to talk to one of their business services managers. They get paid to give out answers to questions like these. :)
 
jay helfert said:
As a part time promoter of professional pool tournaments, I would like to add my input to this conversation.

I have personally been responsible (sometimes in partnership with a casino) the prize funds in nearly 100 tournaments during the last 20 years. I am proud to say that every dime promised, has been paid in every one of these events. Only on one occasion, did the tournament account have a shortfall at the end, when it came time to pay (The 1993 Los Angeles Open). On that occasion, I personally deposited $25,000 into the account to make sure all checks would clear. And I walked Mark Tadd into the bank to cash his check for 20K.

That has been the way I have done business, by opening a separate bank account specifically for receipts that come in (including entry fees) and expenses that go out for an event. All Added Monies are included in that account. A checking account is usually sufficient to meet these purposes. And at the end of the tournament there has always been enough money to pay all the bills, including the prize money. Except on the one occasion noted above.

I value my reputation in the billiard community and know that is the most important asset I have, my good name. That being said, I would have no problem putting all Added Monies into an escrow account if that was asked of me. By now, I think most, if not all players, know that I am going to pay whatever is promised in any tournament I am associated with.

In the U.S. Bar Table Championships this year we advertised $30,000 in Added Monies, even though the casino was only adding $20,000. We were optimistic that enough monies would come in thru Qualifiers to add the additional funds. If somehow this did not work out, I was committed to paying the extra 10K out of my pocket if need be. The marketing people at the casino were concerned and I assured them I would make up any arrears. I did in fact, send them a check for $10,000 one month prior to the event. This money was added to the account set up for this tournament at the casino.

It personally peeves me to no end when a promoter fails to make good on promised monies. It makes all pool promoters look bad, myself included, and I don't like it. Perhaps that is why this fiasco with the IPT has irked me so much. If he had closed up shop and said it wasn't working out, I wouldn't have minded so much. But to hold a tournament and then not pay, really raised my hackles up. Mr. Trudough has besmirched the reputation of all U.S. promoters by his actions. And in so doing has made an already difficult job even harder.
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By the way, I never use entry fee monies or added monies to pay ANY bills. That is sacred money to me, that cannot be spent. Anytime I open a bank account for an event, I fund it first with money of my own. That typically will be anywhere from ten to twenty thousand (or more). Again, that is just my way of doing business. My basic philosophy is KISS, keep it simple stupid (that's me).
 
The problem with "guaranteed" prize monies is how it is guaranted. Mr. Goldwater is correct in that placing a large amount of money on hold is probably an impediment for most people seeking to hold a tournament. I submit to the board however that this is exactly the kind of impediment that is needed to seperate those who are able from those who are merely willing. This is the kind of barrier to entry that should be the cornerstone of a professional tour.

Not only should this be an inviolable requirement it would also serve as massive incentive for the promoters to actually promote.

In other word, when the money is on the light then it's time to bear down.

I can't recall the number of times in the last 20 years I have attended large pro events and been shocked to find that no one at the nearest poolroom outside of a few "players" knew that it was even going on.

I could write a laundry list of things that could be done to promote participation, to guarantee full fields, and full stands. All of these things require diligent work and network building skills, just like every other successful endeavor.

I have rarely, very very rarely, seen a promoter put forth the effort it would require to pack the field and the stands.

So having a requirement that the money be put up is the very first thing that should be addressed. Serious inquires only please.

As far as entry fees go. The IPT has provent that people will pay substantial sums with a credit card. It is a simple process to set up a payment interface on the internet that accepts payments for whatever item(tournament) and assigns those payment accordingly and funds the appropriate accounts. Payments by credit card are more secure for the payor than the payee due to chargebacks. So the risk to the player is minimal with credit card payment. Players without access to credit cards can purchase prepaid ones at 7-11. The fee for that is the cost of having no credit or not desiring credit. Bank cards with visa/mc logos work just as well. So the issue of getting payments is solved by accepting cards. Of course Money Orders will still be accepted with the disclaimer that spots are first come first serve.

Payouts can be achieved in much the same way I think. If I am not mistaken there are some ways to pay to people's credit card accounts as well. I am not sure about this one entirely but if so then it should be a simple thing to fund the account with the amount of prize money won.

The cost: Credit card processing fees, bank fees, administration costs. Well, these things are part of normal business and part of life as well. We don't avoid them in life and we shouldn't seek to save money on the wrong end in our business ventures as well. Build the costs into the plan and focus on getting more bodies which brings in enough revenue to easily make a profit rather than spending energy figuring out how to skim by and each event will be a bigger success than the previous one. Quality begets quality.
 
Please bear with me – I apologize for the length.

Ever since pool has been a gambling game, there has been (often for good reason) a degree of distrust between the 2 players. Maybe they did not know each other – OR maybe they DID know each other. Either way, for the game to continue, the money is posted and: a) put on the light, b) held by the houseman, c) held by a trusted 3rd party. Now, we have all heard about the money being stolen or otherwise disappearing off the light; fewer stories about the houseman who wasn’t so trustworthy after all; and even the occasional the 3rd party that “forgot his obligations. But all in all, the goal was to provide the security for the two players to match up. Really, that is what we have here. The players and the promoters being able to match up, with the money posted and ready to be paid.

There really seems to be some confusion here. Unfortunately, I have to disagree with some previous posts about the size of the prize fund necessary to make any solution economically feasible; the impossibility of placing the prize funds with a third party organization; and although escrows sound “good”, they can be difficult to prevent abuse. And few financial institutions would “step” up to cover any losses caused by abuse. That is not their business. I also do not believe there are many promoters using entry fees to cover costs.

I am involved in the operations of a lot of tournaments. We get the funds by check and credit card, or on site cash. We can take them up to the time needed to do the draw. No big deal. This can (and is) being done. There are no hurdles here. This will be structured to allow up to the last minute entry – as per the TD instructions.

Here is what I am saying:
I am proposing to do this FOR the interested billiard community at basically no charge. I have the full time office (this is NOT the job for volunteers!!!) and the procedures in place to do this operation. There will be credit card service fees (like anything purchased with plastic). There will be some costs passed on to the promoter but they WILL BE MINIMAL. The credibility gained by using the service (once established) will offset these costs.

There is NO NEED for the promoter to post any money except: 1) a fixed fee when the event is announced and to protect/guarantee his dates, and 2) a portion of the added money needs to be posted (say) 90 days prior to event, and 3) a document showing balance of added money funds will be available at the event. If these are met, we will inform the billiard community. Likewise, if they are not, we will tell the billiard community. We will allow the interested players to pay us the entry. We will GUARANTEE THE ENTRY or A FULL REFUND, to any player whose money we are holding. All funds we are holding will be delivered to the tournament and properly dispersed (which is probably the trickiest part).

I am offering this for a couple of reasons: I believe a responsible third party IS the BEST way to resolve the current situation. I am offering to do this for FREE (minus actual cash costs) to help the sport. Although there are others that could probably do this “job”, I don’t see them jumping at the “opportunity”. The single most important aspect that I bring to the table is I have too much to lose to “steal anybody’s money”. I think I am respected in the Billiard community and I have shown (more than once) that I am financially sound and financially responsible. The money will be safe with me – I have enough financial footing to personally guarantee any funds under my control. I currently “personally guarantee “over $1,000,000 in tournament funds a year.

Let’s try for a solution – not create more problems. Also, this is not to be confused with a “player’s union”. This is a “sanctioning body” that is protecting the player’s financial interests without handicapping a promoter’s ability to perform.

With the current state of affairs, would players go to a new promoter’s event? Why would a person want to become a promoter with this degree of distrust and scrutiny? I am trying to provide a mechanism to promote players and promoters working towards the same goal – more decent pool events that have a “happy ending”.

I encourage constructive criticism on this. Some additional suggestions on ways to make the players feel more comfortable and using this service. It will not work without player participation. Again, comments would be appreciated – but please lets try to stay on point. Although I am not known to a lot of people in the industry, I believe I am one of the few who can provide what is necessary to go forward.

I will be at Derby if anyone wants to go further with this. By the way – watch for the info that will be available at the Derby about the upcoming “Qlympics” in November 2007. That is another $150,000 - $250,000 or so that I will be “personally guaranteeing”.

Again, sorry for the length.

Mark Griffin
702-719-7665
812-987-1461 cell
 
rackmsuckr said:
Of course, another question that begs to be answered is, what prevents the TD from dispersing ANY of the funds to himself at any time anyway?
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I would say that the account should be set up to require two (2) signatures. TD or Promoter, plus a player/representative.

If I'm not mistaken, this is what Charlie Williams was requiring (escrow with 2 signatures) from tournament promoters during his stint as President of the UPA. This requirement did not fare well with TP's, and it got Charlie Williams quickly into trouble with organizers. I was one of the few that supported Charlie back then on this requirement.
 
Mark Griffin said:
Please bear with me – I apologize for the length.

Ever since pool has been a gambling game, there has been (often for good reason) a degree of distrust between the 2 players. Maybe they did not know each other – OR maybe they DID know each other. Either way, for the game to continue, the money is posted and: a) put on the light, b) held by the houseman, c) held by a trusted 3rd party. Now, we have all heard about the money being stolen or otherwise disappearing off the light; fewer stories about the houseman who wasn’t so trustworthy after all; and even the occasional the 3rd party that “forgot his obligations. But all in all, the goal was to provide the security for the two players to match up. Really, that is what we have here. The players and the promoters being able to match up, with the money posted and ready to be paid.

There really seems to be some confusion here. Unfortunately, I have to disagree with some previous posts about the size of the prize fund necessary to make any solution economically feasible; the impossibility of placing the prize funds with a third party organization; and although escrows sound “good”, they can be difficult to prevent abuse. And few financial institutions would “step” up to cover any losses caused by abuse. That is not their business. I also do not believe there are many promoters using entry fees to cover costs.

I am involved in the operations of a lot of tournaments. We get the funds by check and credit card, or on site cash. We can take them up to the time needed to do the draw. No big deal. This can (and is) being done. There are no hurdles here. This will be structured to allow up to the last minute entry – as per the TD instructions.

Here is what I am saying:
I am proposing to do this FOR the interested billiard community at basically no charge. I have the full time office (this is NOT the job for volunteers!!!) and the procedures in place to do this operation. There will be credit card service fees (like anything purchased with plastic). There will be some costs passed on to the promoter but they WILL BE MINIMAL. The credibility gained by using the service (once established) will offset these costs.

There is NO NEED for the promoter to post any money except: 1) a fixed fee when the event is announced and to protect/guarantee his dates, and 2) a portion of the added money needs to be posted (say) 90 days prior to event, and 3) a document showing balance of added money funds will be available at the event. If these are met, we will inform the billiard community. Likewise, if they are not, we will tell the billiard community. We will allow the interested players to pay us the entry. We will GUARANTEE THE ENTRY or A FULL REFUND, to any player whose money we are holding. All funds we are holding will be delivered to the tournament and properly dispersed (which is probably the trickiest part).

I am offering this for a couple of reasons: I believe a responsible third party IS the BEST way to resolve the current situation. I am offering to do this for FREE (minus actual cash costs) to help the sport. Although there are others that could probably do this “job”, I don’t see them jumping at the “opportunity”. The single most important aspect that I bring to the table is I have too much to lose to “steal anybody’s money”. I think I am respected in the Billiard community and I have shown (more than once) that I am financially sound and financially responsible. The money will be safe with me – I have enough financial footing to personally guarantee any funds under my control. I currently “personally guarantee “over $1,000,000 in tournament funds a year.

Let’s try for a solution – not create more problems. Also, this is not to be confused with a “player’s union”. This is a “sanctioning body” that is protecting the player’s financial interests without handicapping a promoter’s ability to perform.

With the current state of affairs, would players go to a new promoter’s event? Why would a person want to become a promoter with this degree of distrust and scrutiny? I am trying to provide a mechanism to promote players and promoters working towards the same goal – more decent pool events that have a “happy ending”.

I encourage constructive criticism on this. Some additional suggestions on ways to make the players feel more comfortable and using this service. It will not work without player participation. Again, comments would be appreciated – but please lets try to stay on point. Although I am not known to a lot of people in the industry, I believe I am one of the few who can provide what is necessary to go forward.

I will be at Derby if anyone wants to go further with this. By the way – watch for the info that will be available at the Derby about the upcoming “Qlympics” in November 2007. That is another $150,000 - $250,000 or so that I will be “personally guaranteeing”.

Again, sorry for the length.

Mark Griffin
702-719-7665
812-987-1461 cell
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I feel it a great gesture on your part and a great idea.

It would also take a lot of pressure and heat off the promoters.
 
Good Thoughts; What Else?

I have played many tournaments organized by Jay H., and by Mark G., so I give their comments great weight.

However, they are honorable men; they have a personal stake in their pool reputations. They care.

The IPT problem, as we painfully know, demonstrates what happens with dishonorable men, and/or when really large amounts of money are at stake. (If you don't know it already, the rules always seem to change when truly large amounts of money are involved; even within families and between friends. This advice I offer free; suggest you remember it.):)

I have suggested escrow accounts previously as one solution, but I'm not satisfied that this is the only workable approach. What do other sports do, thinking of the PGA and tennis in particular? Does anyone know?
 
based on the feedback

there is a niche market for tournament organizers, with experience.
This seems to be something BCA bigwig is available at the right place and right time to provide.
 
jay helfert said:
As a part time promoter of professional pool tournaments, I would like to add my input to this conversation.

I have personally been responsible (sometimes in partnership with a casino) the prize funds in nearly 100 tournaments during the last 20 years. I am proud to say that every dime promised, has been paid in every one of these events. Only on one occasion, did the tournament account have a shortfall at the end, when it came time to pay (The 1993 Los Angeles Open). On that occasion, I personally deposited $25,000 into the account to make sure all checks would clear. And I walked Mark Tadd into the bank to cash his check for 20K.

That has been the way I have done business, by opening a separate bank account specifically for receipts that come in (including entry fees) and expenses that go out for an event. All Added Monies are included in that account. A checking account is usually sufficient to meet these purposes. And at the end of the tournament there has always been enough money to pay all the bills, including the prize money. Except on the one occasion noted above.

I value my reputation in the billiard community and know that is the most important asset I have, my good name. That being said, I would have no problem putting all Added Monies into an escrow account if that was asked of me. By now, I think most, if not all players, know that I am going to pay whatever is promised in any tournament I am associated with.

In the U.S. Bar Table Championships this year we advertised $30,000 in Added Monies, even though the casino was only adding $20,000. We were optimistic that enough monies would come in thru Qualifiers to add the additional funds. If somehow this did not work out, I was committed to paying the extra 10K out of my pocket if need be. The marketing people at the casino were concerned and I assured them I would make up any arrears. I did in fact, send them a check for $10,000 one month prior to the event. This money was added to the account set up for this tournament at the casino.

It personally peeves me to no end when a promoter fails to make good on promised monies. It makes all pool promoters look bad, myself included, and I don't like it. Perhaps that is why this fiasco with the IPT has irked me so much. If he had closed up shop and said it wasn't working out, I wouldn't have minded so much. But to hold a tournament and then not pay, really raised my hackles up. Mr. Trudough has besmirched the reputation of all U.S. promoters by his actions. And in so doing has made an already difficult job even harder.
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Well said Jay...it's things like the IPT that will keep pool from coming out of the "shade" and become mainstream...if POKER can do it so can pool...it all comes down to trust and integrity....with the IPT reds flags went all over the place when I seen who was behind it....I was almost willing to make a bet something like non-payment would happen...
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