I don't know myself, but it sure fit the content of this thread!!!!!:grin-square:
1903-1918 Brunswick Balke Collender Butterfly Conversion
- Thread starter CocoboloCowboy
- Start date
I don't know myself, but it sure fit the content of this thread!!!!!:grin-square:
Bruce wood can change color when it is cut, especially older wood but not to the extent you expect us to believe, and what about the veneer's how come your conversion doesn't have the right number of veneer's for a Brunswick 36 or a 360? Bruce like I said the cue is an import, it was not made by Brunswick and your majical expert is kinda like the cue, most likely imported and short a few veneer's.
Bruce I truly thought you were intersted in finding out about the conversion, I can see now that it is just another Cocobolo Nightmare, but please don't think anyone is fooled, enjoy your cue Bruce I am certain that it most likely does play well and that is the most truthful comment you made in this entire thread!
I still believe what the Cuemaker told me, I still believe what the gentleman at Brunswick said, after he saw the photos of the one piece Cues. I think you are thinking it is something else beside a Brunswick One Piece Cue,maybe it is you time to share your expert opinion. I was sharing the information I was told, and heard with my own ears.
BTW for Reference the Blank in question is the one with the #16.
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Thanks Cowboy that only further proves my point, anyone who knows anything about Brunswick cues can very easily tell that cue is not a Model 36 or a Model 360 Brunswick. In fact that cue doesn't even match the photo of the cue butt you posted with the decal on it in a previous post to this thread. Now I know you are saying how can you tell, first the woods are different, and second weight stamps were not used above the points on cues until the 1930's, before that they were located on the bottom of the cue above the bumper. Now the photo of the cue butt you posted you claimed was before 1910, but the decal was a later version after 1910. So Cowboy, maybe I am wrong and you were given bad information which you choose to believe it happens all the time all you have to do is admit it
. However, your so called expert is not a true expert if he can't tell the difference, I am certainly not an expert but I do have some experience when it comes to these cues. I have handled many many hundred of them, I currently have 2 or 3 hundred in my shop and I have most of the original catalogs in my shop that I own that were made by Brunswick starting at the turn of century and going through the 1960's for reference.Thanks for providing the extra photo's it only helps me prove my point more clearly.
Honestly for anyone who wants to please compare the cue butt and the the cue marked 16 below, the wood doesn't match, the decal is from the wrong time period, and the weight stamp is above the points!!
My Momma always said not to lie, because you would have to tell 10 more to cover the first lie up, and this process is endless, so when are you going to stop Cowboy!!!!!!!
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I don't have a dog in this race but some people just need to be droped off on a deserted island never to be heard from again....geez......manwon how many conversions have you actually done yourself....???do you even make cues?.......I don't know you so I asked................. all I have seen you post is negative....and if the cue is not what is said then post your own proof of what this cue actually is....o and I don't think it was claimed to be a 360......lets all act our age shall we
I skimmed thru the original post looked at the pictures carefully and then noticed manwon doing his usuall thing which at that moment pissed me off enough to coment....a thing I usuall don't do.....back to the question.....about those conversions.....I've done a few myself....lol....so I could maybe know a little something about it.....at least the difference in the way the wood looks before and after......o and another thing.....he wasn't trying to sell this cue.....so why is this an issue.....its a case in which a internet tough guy slash know it all decided to speak up.....I don't care who the original poster was....just my opinion....everyone got them
You obviously do have a dog in the fight, and I am sorry if my comments offended you, but please tell us what part you are playing in this?:smile:
As far as how many conversions I have done most likely more than you have, I don't know you either so I answered.
Here is the last Brunswick Butterfly Conversion I completed for a customer:
As far as being negative, I personally don't like people misrepresenting cues in the the Cue and case gallery it only leads to more problems down the road when said cue is being sold to another member as something it is not.
I have posted more than enough proof for anyone who has any knowledge of this subject. I tried to tell Cowboy from the begining that I could identify the cue, but it appears that making up a story is more important than the truth for some reason that I don't understand.
Read the first post to this thread Cowboy clearly stated that the cue is a model 36 or a model 360 according to his expert from Brunswick
and according to the individual who did the conversion. Are you the one giving him his so called expert information or did you do the conversion? Either way we are all here to learn and help each other, but I will not help prepetuate a false / inaccurate assement of a cue. I can understand making a mistake, I make mistakes just like everyone else, but I do not intentionally attempt to deceive anyone.I hope this clears things up for you, if I can help you with any cue identifications in the future I would be glad to do so.
Have a wonderful evening!!
If that is what you want to call yourself that is fine with me, I am sorry you feel that way, it is really a shame.
Just my opinion everyone got one!!:smile:
childish
well your first post was not out of line but this one was.....what are you 13??? I was refering to you.....I see that he did claim this cue as being a 36 or 360......a 360 it is not ......and the statment that you completed more than me....well as short a time as I have been doing it it would be really bad if you haven't....be aware you'll have needed to do more than one.....lol.....and the cue you posted is a nice looking conversion......however my dog in this race is this.....I did not make this cue....I have never talked to the owner of this cue at anytime....my dog is this....I have never seen a post where you weren't being negative, insulting, rude, and an overall a**.....I call them as I see them......can't you just leave people alone.....I don't have anymore to say as I build cues for a living and don't have time to get on here all the time.....o and manwon do you make cues for a living.......???......
well your first post was not out of line but this one was.....what are you 13??? I was refering to you.....I see that he did claim this cue as being a 36 or 360......a 360 it is not ......and the statment that you completed more than me....well as short a time as I have been doing it it would be really bad if you haven't....be aware you'll have needed to do more than one.....lol.....and the cue you posted is a nice looking conversion......however my dog in this race is this.....I did not make this cue....I have never talked to the owner of this cue at anytime....my dog is this....I have never seen a post where you weren't being negative, insulting, rude, and an overall a**.....I call them as I see them......can't you just leave people alone.....I don't have anymore to say as I build cues for a living and don't have time to get on here all the time.....o and manwon do you make cues for a living.......???
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well your first post was not out of line but this one was.....what are you 13??? I was refering to you.....I see that he did claim this cue as being a 36 or 360......a 360 it is not ......and the statment that you completed more than me....well as short a time as I have been doing it it would be really bad if you haven't....be aware you'll have needed to do more than one.....lol.....and the cue you posted is a nice looking conversion......however my dog in this race is this.....I did not make this cue....I have never talked to the owner of this cue at anytime....my dog is this....I have never seen a post where you weren't being negative, insulting, rude, and an overall a**.....I call them as I see them......can't you just leave people alone.....I don't have anymore to say as I build cues for a living and don't have time to get on here all the time.....o and manwon do you make cues for a living.......???
Your the one who claimed to know a little something about making cues, I only answered your question and throughout this thread stated the facts. I also call them as I see them and that is what I have done here in this thread, but show me a single post where I have ever attacked some one in any way who was asking for help, show me a post where I have openly lied to prove a point. Show me a post where I have gone out of my way to attack some one, I don't think you can, however, with little knowledge on this subject you are doing exactly what you have accused me of doing without even knowing fully what is going on, have I lied in this thread, presented false or inaccurate information. The only person who has attacked anyone is you, and if you build cues for a living I am happy for you, but I have never heard of you or seen any of your work please post some.
No I do not have to build cues for a living, I own a Pool Hall, sell retail billiards supplies, do full cue restoration of Antiques, do all cue repairs, and I build around 20 to 30 cues / conversions a year. My specialty is restoration of early Brunswick cues, but I do restoration on all antique cues. I have between 200 and 300 Antique Brunswick cues on hand my shop for restoration or conversion.
Like I said if you ever need any help with identification or parts for restoration I would be glad to help, even though you think I am an ass.
Well some people think I'm an ass but the number of post between here and jimbo's that will prove my statment are in the thousands.....proof is in the pudding...and again I really could care less what this cue is...it wasn't about the cue....and for my curiosity what do you belive this cue to be....that was something I asked in my first post......o and I do build cues and do repair work for a living..I know just a little and I do mean quite literaly a little bit about building cues....I have new questions every day.....but havn't depended on it as an income until a couple of years ago.....I am finishing up a few of my nicer stuff that I will post sometime this month as my introduction to az....up until now its been local....and again this is out of the ordinary as I would usuall just ignore threads and post like this but this week I am in a foul mood.....so I will say no more
Like I said in Pm there is more than meets the eye on these forums, with you being new to post here you may not understand what has been going on for a long time.
Like I have said in a previous post I am not an expert on this, in fact I don't think there is anyone who knows everything about this subject. It seems that little documentation has been keep over the years or much has some how been lost. It appears that Brunswick destroyed a great deal of this information because they do not have accurate records going back past the 1940's concerning cues. No one working there today can give an accurate assessment of this information and they do not even have copies of all the catalog's going back to the 1800's.
Even the Blue Book of Cues is full of holes concerning this subject, and this speaks louder then words because the information there was collected from all the known experts. The Writer and Publisher of the Blue Book Brad Simpson posts here on the forum on a regular basis and he is great guy who tries to make certain that the book is accurate and as up to date as possible but the real problem is the lack of documentation on this subject.
In my opinion the cue was either a European import which was common place starting during the 1800's and going through today, or it was made by one of the small companies competing with Brunswick. Since the weight stamp is above the points the cue was made in the 1930's or later, and Butterfly Cues were made through the 1960's. I suspect that the cue was made by Saunier Wilhem Company in the 40's or 50's, I have seen other similar designed cues made by them from time frame.
Just in my opinion
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Chris it is certainly a nice cue I totally agree, and the truth be known it may never be identified without doubt.
Take Care
Thought I would post this for Bruce. It might help:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Brunswi...164?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c06ba7bc
http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Brunswi...164?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c06ba7bc