Aiming / alignment down the stick or more "on top"?

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not stating anything revolutionary or reinventing a wheel when I state a concept of commonality. It simply means we share a certain disposition or propensity to execute a particular way to a meaningful extent that has to be noted if "solve" is the final equation of an endeavor. If there is commonality, then there is a direction that can lead to solve.
For instance, in golf, if you are a consistent slicer, that is a far better problem than sporadically mishitting left and right. If something is consistent, then the solve is theoretically easier.
There is no doubt about it:
.....back to the tables.
Advanced theoretical thinking is just too complicated for a simpleton like me.
To each his own, I guess.
Keep on truckin'.
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I cut your technical "commonality" jargon out of the quote and left this great tidbit above.

Whether we are talking about flying a kite, racing a motorcycle, or playing pool, a thorough understanding of the exact mechanisms that make it all work is not needed in order for a person to develop excellent operating skills. I believe it might help build confidence, but no amount of confidence can overcome the problem of over-thinking the mechanics/details involved. Pocketing balls is not hard unless the player makes it hard by over-analyzing the process. Focus on the simplicity of it, not the difficulty.

Yes I agree 100% but the problem is not pocketing a ball as a binary event. What makes it more difficult as fact and IMO exponentially difficult and not just a binary 1+1 = 1 requirement to achieve end result, is pocketing with desired cb destination to static rest.

I present it in scientific type terms because I think it's efficient and mainly because I get a personal kick out of it because this journey is so lonely and arduous, I need a chuckle here and there to keep my spirit up. I am not a scientist or mathematician by any meaningful stretch, but I do have a propensity for black and white straight line reality because getting to the crux of something is always important and this approach makes it easier for me.

I wish I was more esoteric and artistic but I'm not predisposed that way. I am very left brained, right hand dominant, which IMO is not the greatest thing for these particular endeavors, thus why left handed players are surprisingly and factually some of your best players in these type of ventures and that is a statistical fact on a per capita basis. That's not my opinion unless the research I studied is lying, which I doubt.

So, let me pose a question to you. I agree you are 100% right when it comes to your statement. However, do you believe you are still correct in terms of ultimately trying to develop a game/skill level of beating a pro?

Thanks.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes I agree 100% but the problem is not pocketing a ball as a binary event. What makes it more difficult as fact and IMO exponentially difficult and not just a binary 1+1 = 1 requirement to achieve end result, is pocketing with desired cb destination to static rest.

I present it in scientific type terms because I think it's efficient and mainly because I get a personal kick out of it because this journey is so lonely and arduous, I need a chuckle here and there to keep my spirit up. I am not a scientist or mathematician by any meaningful stretch, but I do have a propensity for black and white straight line reality because getting to the crux of something is always important and this approach makes it easier for me.

I wish I was more esoteric and artistic but I'm not predisposed that way. I am very left brained, right hand dominant, which IMO is not the greatest thing for these particular endeavors, thus why left handed players are surprisingly and factually some of your best players in these type of ventures and that is a statistical fact on a per capita basis. That's not my opinion unless the research I studied is lying, which I doubt.

So, let me pose a question to you. I agree you are 100% right when it comes to your statement. However, do you believe you are still correct in terms of ultimately trying to develop a game/skill level of beating a pro?

Thanks.

I like your thought process, and I do believe you travel a fairly desolate road, as most people are not too acute on technicalities. IMO, most pool players fall between the realms of technical and artistic thinking. It's hard for a left-brained player to loosen up and go with the flow, allowing their subconscious to perform the basic fundamentals of playing pool. But it's probably equally as tough for a right-brained player to tighten up a bit in order to ensure good fundamentals become embedded into their game. That's why the average pool player is just average -- being too technical is about as rewarding is being too artistic. A good balance of each is probably needed in order to become a consistently great player, a player capable of pro-level competition.

I've watched, as well as played, some fabulous players over the years, most of them oldschool players that learned via rote, unaware of exactly how the physics on a certain shot happens to work out, but fully aware of how to make it happen when the shot arises.

So I'm not sure of the answer to your question. I'm like you -- I enjoy knowing what is going on with every aspect, but then again...I'm not a pro player. I have moments where I play A+ quality, like putting 4-pack on an opponent, or multiple 3-packs in a session. Then I'm back to a B quality, running out here and there but failing to string multiple racks together. I honestly believe the difference is in my brain, where sometimes I am playing more right-brain oriented and other times more left-brained, and it's the left brain (the technical side trying to take control) that sabotages my level of play.
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like your thought process, and I do believe you travel a fairly desolate road, as most people are not too acute on technicalities. IMO, most pool players fall between the realms of technical and artistic thinking. It's hard for a left-brained player to loosen up and go with the flow, allowing their subconscious to perform the basic fundamentals of playing pool. But it's probably equally as tough for a right-brained player to tighten up a bit in order to ensure good fundamentals become embedded into their game. That's why the average pool player is just average -- being too technical is about as rewarding is being too artistic. A good balance of each is probably needed in order to become a consistently great player, a player capable of pro-level competition.

I've watched, as well as played, some fabulous players over the years, most of them oldschool players that learned via rote, unaware of exactly how the physics on a certain shot happens to work out, but fully aware of how to make it happen when the shot arises.

So I'm not sure of the answer to your question. I'm like you -- I enjoy knowing what is going on with every aspect, but then again...I'm not a pro player. I have moments where I play A+ quality, like putting 4-pack on an opponent, or multiple 3-packs in a session. Then I'm back to a B quality, running out here and there but failing to string multiple racks together. I honestly believe the difference is in my brain, where sometimes I am playing more right-brain oriented and other times more left-brained, and it's the left brain (the technical side trying to take control) that sabotages my level of play.

I would like to say a few things that makes me sound like a know it all, as if I haven't already lol, but I really have put my back into these things and I'm always willing to put my money where my mouth is too.

FACT:

A person does not have to be a lawyer to understand or express law. A person does not have to be a scientist or mathemetian to understand or express in scientific terms.

So with that being said, if we adhere to science, we simply express in terms of FACT, SPECULATION and averages.

Averages is what carries the most weight. So when I make statements for instance, I speak on averages and not exceptions. What truly exists is the most important thing, not what people wished existed.

CLARIFICATION:

I am working on a skill level to beat a pro. EVERYTHING I say is geared toward this aproach.

FACT:

CJ Wiley said that there is no way in hell Ronnie O'sullivan is "thinking about it" when he runs a maximum in 8 minutes and IMO, CJ is spot on and that should be obvious.

For the record, I don't know or have ever talked to CJ but I like this man. The very few things I've ever come across in his statements are genius IMO and have helped me tremendously.

So, that backs up your statement, which i do agree with but Ronnie is what we would call in the skill industry......a "freak". Not the average.

There's a book called the book of 50 talents I believe or something like that. I read half of it and didn't continue further because it confirmed enough of my theories and shed insight to my ignorance. As soon as it started mentioning slow motion training, I stopped reading because I came up with similar concepts but I'm still on my first leg of the journey and don't need to get ahead of myself just yet.

I'm still figuring out how to put the damn ball in the hole but at a high level of cueball control.

Anyway, what this book mentions more than once is how these obscure facilities around the world, pump out so many champions. As a matter of fact from what the book says and I believe it and was rather surprised, they don't look for freaks, they want the people who will work insanely hard.

Fred couples is a freak. He has his swing gurus who basically keep his mindset and rhythm inline for the most part. When asked if he ever miss hit off the club face, he thought for a second and said......nope.

However, if we take the averages in golf and snooker and consider the book of 50 talents and use simple observation, we or I at least know or should be able to conclude without much doubt, that extreme training goes into the technicals and mechanics......perhaps to groove and perhaps (I suspect) most importantly, to UNDERSTAND.

But of course, when finally thrown into competition, all the training basically goes out the window and now you let "familiarity" rule the day and execute. You fall back on understanding when need be if your under pressure or getting out of line.

To play on the high levels, for the average person, it requires a lot of technical training. I was quite shocked when they also mentioned that pedigree or experience development in competition wasn't nearly as important. I can understand that because it is more of a process rather than forming through endless training in which was also stated that one could never practice enough.

Is what I said important? I really don't know but I'm just stating what's out there and how it appears to typically work and since I don't see a huge consensus saying no no no they are full of crap and that's not the way to do it, then I have to conclude getting technical is the way to go for me and the average person.

I've found that striping a 10' zero angle to the back of the pocket on a snooker table is not a trick shot or a freak skill, it's simply more of a understanding of how to do it.

Unfortunately, that understanding requires a ton of work and since many of these end results require finite accuracy of formulation/execution, it's not a automatic give me, that's why focus plays a huge part but even that can be developed IMO.... I don't see any reason why not.

I estimate my chances of accomplishing my ultimate goal is better than 50/50 but if I were to factor a effort/reward ratio to the equation, it's not worth the effort and time but I do it for the challenge and I adore it in fact.

I got one more year, July 1rst 2018, if I'm not there by then, I quit, but I'll know I gave it a reasonable shot and I will always share my findings along the way and seek knowledge from anyone and use whatever I think fits my methodology.

One of my favorite lines from good bad and the ugly or one of those Eastwood movies:

"Sometimes a man's life is dependent on a mere scrap of information".

.....off to the table.
 

Mkindsv

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"I've been struggling with my head position since I'm really heavily right eye dominant. Are there any drills to help find a good head/eye alignment?

The other thing I was wondering is to get get down almost touching the cue so as you use the shaft as an alignment aid or to stay more on top... any pros/cons to either way?

Thanks"

Where you are above the cue or lined up left/right are generally a question of personal comfort combined with what gets reasonable results. I would advise to try a bunch of different stances until you find one that is comfortable, but also to where you can reliably make most "easy" shots.

Go to the dollar store and buy some hole reinforcers, set up 10-12 easy shots, shoot them in 5x each, record your results with the stance you used...repeat until you are 90% plus on easy stuff...then you will have a baseline for how to start on the shot. I would also suggest a good stroke drill like Tor Lowry teaches, I know Bert Kinnister has something similar as well.

What I personally do is stand about three feet behind the table keeping an eye on the line I want to deliver the cue ball to, then I try to come down directly on that shot line with my cue...then the rest is stroke, speed and confidence.

The important thing is to find a position that when you get down and stroke the cue ball goes exactly where you want it to...which of course is the crazy part of this game we all love so much.
 
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One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would like to say a few things that makes me sound like a know it all, as if I haven't already lol, but I really have put my back into these things and I'm always willing to put my money where my mouth is too.

FACT:

A person does not have to be a lawyer to understand or express law. A person does not have to be a scientist or mathemetian to understand or express in scientific terms.

So with that being said, if we adhere to science, we simply express in terms of FACT, SPECULATION and averages.

Averages is what carries the most weight. So when I make statements for instance, I speak on averages and not exceptions. What truly exists is the most important thing, not what people wished existed.

CLARIFICATION:

I am working on a skill level to beat a pro. EVERYTHING I say is geared toward this aproach.

FACT:

CJ Wiley said that there is no way in hell Ronnie O'sullivan is "thinking about it" when he runs a maximum in 8 minutes and IMO, CJ is spot on and that should be obvious.

For the record, I don't know or have ever talked to CJ but I like this man. The very few things I've ever come across in his statements are genius IMO and have helped me tremendously.

So, that backs up your statement, which i do agree with but Ronnie is what we would call in the skill industry......a "freak". Not the average.

There's a book called the book of 50 talents I believe or something like that. I read half of it and didn't continue further because it confirmed enough of my theories and shed insight to my ignorance. As soon as it started mentioning slow motion training, I stopped reading because I came up with similar concepts but I'm still on my first leg of the journey and don't need to get ahead of myself just yet.

I'm still figuring out how to put the damn ball in the hole but at a high level of cueball control.

Anyway, what this book mentions more than once is how these obscure facilities around the world, pump out so many champions. As a matter of fact from what the book says and I believe it and was rather surprised, they don't look for freaks, they want the people who will work insanely hard.

Fred couples is a freak. He has his swing gurus who basically keep his mindset and rhythm inline for the most part. When asked if he ever miss hit off the club face, he thought for a second and said......nope.

However, if we take the averages in golf and snooker and consider the book of 50 talents and use simple observation, we or I at least know or should be able to conclude without much doubt, that extreme training goes into the technicals and mechanics......perhaps to groove and perhaps (I suspect) most importantly, to UNDERSTAND.

But of course, when finally thrown into competition, all the training basically goes out the window and now you let "familiarity" rule the day and execute. You fall back on understanding when need be if your under pressure or getting out of line.

To play on the high levels, for the average person, it requires a lot of technical training. I was quite shocked when they also mentioned that pedigree or experience development in competition wasn't nearly as important. I can understand that because it is more of a process rather than forming through endless training in which was also stated that one could never practice enough.

Is what I said important? I really don't know but I'm just stating what's out there and how it appears to typically work and since I don't see a huge consensus saying no no no they are full of crap and that's not the way to do it, then I have to conclude getting technical is the way to go for me and the average person.

I've found that striping a 10' zero angle to the back of the pocket on a snooker table is not a trick shot or a freak skill, it's simply more of a understanding of how to do it.

Unfortunately, that understanding requires a ton of work and since many of these end results require finite accuracy of formulation/execution, it's not a automatic give me, that's why focus plays a huge part but even that can be developed IMO.... I don't see any reason why not.

I estimate my chances of accomplishing my ultimate goal is better than 50/50 but if I were to factor a effort/reward ratio to the equation, it's not worth the effort and time but I do it for the challenge and I adore it in fact.

I got one more year, July 1rst 2018, if I'm not there by then, I quit, but I'll know I gave it a reasonable shot and I will always share my findings along the way and seek knowledge from anyone and use whatever I think fits my methodology.

One of my favorite lines from good bad and the ugly or one of those Eastwood movies:

"Sometimes a man's life is dependent on a mere scrap of information".

.....off to the table.

Your writings are very interesting. Please keep writing. :)

The book you write about is called "The Little Book of Talent". I have the book on my pc, have the hard back and have the book on dvd. I listen to the dvd's on the way to work. The book is available on Amazon.

Here is another good piece of information that I live by.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCLYNzZ8LQ

And the video after the above.

Have fun out there.

John
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Your writings are very interesting. Please keep writing. :)

The book you write about is called "The Little Book of Talent". I have the book on my pc, have the hard back and have the book on dvd. I listen to the dvd's on the way to work. The book is available on Amazon.

Here is another good piece of information that I live by.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCLYNzZ8LQ

And the video after the above.

Have fun out there.

John

Great book, written by Daniel Coyle (or Coyal?). Anyway I have it also and it is excellent! Thanks for the clip. The guy's name is Dr. Alan Goldberg, and he has a lot of great clips. I'm going to set aside some time to watch as many as possible! His website is www.competitivedge.com.

Thanks a million, John!
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your writings are very interesting. Please keep writing. :)

The book you write about is called "The Little Book of Talent". I have the book on my pc, have the hard back and have the book on dvd. I listen to the dvd's on the way to work. The book is available on Amazon.

Here is another good piece of information that I live by.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCLYNzZ8LQ

And the video after the above.

Have fun out there.

John

Thanks.

FACT:

I tend to write when I'm at a quandry in my journey. I hope never to write again.

CONCLUSION:

I sometimes write when feeling compelled. I will always feel compelled.

FACT:

Other than ignorantly believing world champions were born to do what they do, I was first told i was WRONG and kept an open mind and leaned heavily toward that person being correct. If anything, some have a knack and some have no chance, but most can achieve the high or highest level through hard work BUT the right direction is MANDATORY.

CONJECTURE:

One gets there quicker with help of a guru or environment: analyze.......COMPLETE:

FACT:

Insufficient facts to conclude conjecture = FACT

That's my analysis so far but I believe the partial equation is correct, but I can only speculate that there is more than that needed to establish a working model platform and I also speculate that in essence, a working model/formula can not be achieved because of the esoteric requirements and variances.

FACT:

A high level can be achieved: analyze.......COMPLETE:

HIGH = A pro will have to take you seriously in a short term event, such as a race to 9 in a rotation type tournament or else said pro will certainly risk losing and perhaps badly as well: analyze......CONCLUSION:

This is mostly reasonable speculation on my part but it's fact that the partial formula is weighted enough to achieve solution.

Thank you for the video and I believe I did catch a piece of this man's work while looking for the book of talents after reading half and giving the book back to a fellow journeyman. YouTube itself has many videos on the complete book, so I know I can easily get the rest of it at my convenience and earned need. At this moment, I simply can't or haven't earned the need to continue on but if my expected stumbles lead to a roadblock, I'll resort back to further reading because it wouldn't surprise me that solve could be unlocked because of a pertaining fact.

Then why not just read it all and not take a chance? Risk/reward dictates it could screw me up worse in my disciplined one step at a time aproach or what my fellow journeyman said, "coming full circle" and that was nothing new to me, I totally understand and was aware of that concept from my previous background.

I will look at that man's videos in the near term now. Very good clarification and the video you gave, is exactly what the one chapter in the book of talents, descibes as "comfort zone".

Funny, when I was handed the book, I flipped it open, my first skim was the comfort zone thing. At first, I misinterpreted it and thought I was doing it all wrong but I swear on my life, I thought pretty hard and said no way and it crossed my mind to hand the book back as bullshyte propaganda to program failure, but I read it again carefully. I was relieved in a sense that it turns out my aproach was in fact correct......granted the book itself is correct lol and I bet my life as well that the book and its advice is factual to known and proven success.

I know from experience, that to achieve higher skill, one has to go a tougher but calculated direction, based on productive logic and assumed risk/reward ratios that deem to be favorable.

This takes me to a finality of SHARE for today because I'm running late but thats ok because the writing helps me:

Good ideas almost always starts from bad ideas when dealing with relative unknowns. Why it seems the right idea is generally never guessed first is beyond me but the good ideas, I believe are better when stemming off of bad.....thus "full circle" and a deeper understanding.

I have found that there is rarely a wasted time in my journey, even though it's proven thus far to be inefficient but I don't have a guru or environment, so it is what it is and hasn't been negative regardless. Perhaps positive?

Another share:

You get more information from missing, rather than making. I'll leave that for anyone's own conclusions.

Lastly, I'm going to post a very good video of a WINNER. IMO, watch it carefully up until he destroys this kid and chats about it. I believe this is a required mindset and if the modern day aproach is substituted with what I think is disgusting full of crap humbleness, I call out bullshyte.

To be good at anything, you have to be brutally honest with yourself and accept criticism and in fact WANT IT.

That's a two way street that must be honest on the other side just as brutally because reality can never be compromised, even if lying to yourself is beneficial at times but I believe it's ultimately not.

I'll find it and post it and then I'm off to the tables. Enjoy.
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What I meant about a two way street is that you also have to acknowledge and state exactly your level of expertise or accomplishment vs the standard average. Like another winner said, Ray lewis, "some people talk around what they truly want to say, but don't want to risk looking bad......if you got something to say, then just say it."

I don't know if Ray is a winner all the way around, i say no, but when it comes to football, i say yes. I was pretty impressed when Deon sanders said Ray would call him up often after a game and talk about plays for hours. Is he a hard worker? Yes. Is it above and beyond? No. I think he is simply doing his job as a competitor.

Was Bobby a hard worker? Yes. Above and beyond? Yes IMO. Enjoy.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uniN-ungh2w
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good video. This guy always has good information. Oftentimes I find that this forum is the left road. This post is an exception to that!

Thanks for your info on that coaching app program.

I really need to start filming myself now. Somebody leant me their go pro but it proved to be very user unfriendly with my iphone4 and chrome book, both old devices.

I believe i will just get a standard camera with a external screen and tripod. That way, I can focus in on enough the table, where my mechanics are always visible.

Might be a tough stretch with standard cameras? I have no clue. I want to be able to see my mechanics clearly and not as if its miles away. From what ive seen on most video matches on youtube, ehhhhhhh I don't think I'll get 100% of what i'm looking for but I can compromise and I'm not going to spend thousands if that what it takes. I would if need be but obviously its not necessary for analyzing objectives.

......off to the tables.
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What I meant about a two way street is that you also have to acknowledge and state exactly your level of expertise or accomplishment vs the standard average. Like another winner said, Ray lewis, "some people talk around what they truly want to say, but don't want to risk looking bad......if you got something to say, then just say it."

I don't know if Ray is a winner all the way around, i say no, but when it comes to football, i say yes. I was pretty impressed when Deon sanders said Ray would call him up often after a game and talk about plays for hours. Is he a hard worker? Yes. Is it above and beyond? No. I think he is simply doing his job as a competitor.

Was Bobby a hard worker? Yes. Above and beyond? Yes IMO. Enjoy.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uniN-ungh2w

Thanks for the video and your prior comments.

Yeah, that's pretty much what the billiard games are all about.

Any billiard game, as with golf is a very lonely personal game that requires, at least for me, a great amount of sacrifice and dedication to practice.

On good days I come away from playing with a very good feeling about myself. On bad days when my performance was not up to my standards I feel that I let myself down but I still continue to practice and work on my weaknesses.

I know I'm talented and refuse to quit. I'll never submit to failure. :)

Thanks again.

John
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the video and your prior comments.

Yeah, that's pretty much what the billiard games are all about.

Any billiard game, as with golf is a very lonely personal game that requires, at least for me, a great amount of sacrifice and dedication to practice.

On good days I come away from playing with a very good feeling about myself. On bad days when my performance was not up to my standards I feel that I let myself down but I still continue to practice and work on my weaknesses.

I know I'm talented and refuse to quit. I'll never submit to failure. :)

Thanks again.

John

Yeah, it's rather hard not to feel the good feelings and bad. Personally, i think the bad feelings are better because they force you to dig deeper. Success often times breeds complacency etc etc.

Anyway, I forgot to mention something in your first post about what you said at the end about having fun out there.

It's the cordial thing to say in general and who knows how you meant it if there was any intended meaning to begin with......neither here nor there as to my coming statement i forgot to mention.

A accomplished player once told me, high skill level players at anything are generally never "having fun out there".

I thought for a second and said "yeah"?

He looks at me and nods his head and says yeah.

I nod my head and chuckle at his conclusion.

Another guy I was having a discussion with about tiger woods when he was at the top, I was giving my opinion about tiger's mindset on the course and the guy says:

"Man, he aint thinking like that, you think he is because THATS HOW YOU THINK, mannnn that dude is GRINDING hard man".

I laughed my ass off and said youre right lol.

......but to be honest, UNDERSTANDING has made it fun and that's why i can put in the hours i do because it's less physically taxing. Ive also found it's more technique than ability. It's a ton of fun to be honest because from my experience, the chance of "solve" is very high.....its just a matter of putting in the work.

The only thing that makes it hell is "mystery" and "no direction"......the work i put into alignment gave me grey hairs i never had on top of my head now. Leaving the hall and barely getting 3 hours of comfortable sleep because of the mysteries I would encounter.

As of last night, I solved all mysteries. I truly have.....ALL.

Do you know, and i'm not embarrassed to say, that when you shoot, lets say a spot shot and you put high inside or center inside english especially, you generally have to aim thick depending on shaft angle, but i'm not going to go there, i'm just trying to make a point in general.

Inside english in general, is a cutter.....point made.

The cb deflects or "squeezes" as I say, to the right....i repeat, in general.

Do you know, that if i put outside english, i would have to aim just as thick. Why couldn't I aim thin and squeeze the cb to the contact point?

It should work both ways in general, correct?

YES.

You want to talk about mind bending and straining?

NOT FUN.

I now have the ability to line up and produce any effect i want. This is a huge achievement for me and very important to reach SOLVE.

Now its a question of application, not easy, but fun.

And for the record, I have now come to:

FACT:

Stroke = IMPORTANT

So, let me ask you a question that I would appreciate you answer and for anyone else to give their 2cents......PLEASE

I have a falcon with a custom tapered conical type shaft design. No pro taper but a very very gradual increase in taper.

The cue over all is butt heavy at the balance point formula of what teams forward weighted vs rear weighted. It is rear weighted.

QUESTION:

Will dimensional characteristics of a stick, effect whether or not you stroke straighter, especially when you pull the trigger at follow through.

SECONDARY QUESTION:

Not related, but possibly connected........If one puts high right, yet strokes straight through at intended stroke angle, is a "glance" off to the right, yielding a end result of appearance of redirection or a unintended stroke.... inevitable?

Or, a intended solid stroke follow through should and will maintain its intended delivery angle?

I believe these questions are clear.

PARAMETERS:

For the sake of accuracy and efficiency, state answers as "unsure" of question but here's "my opinion".

.....or

State the questions are unclear and specify why and I'll do my best to make it clearer.

These are the rules, but the exact wording does not have to be used, just make sure if anyone responds, that they reply obviously clear as to the questions stated.

REASON:

I personally dont want to see anyone waste their time if they put in a lot of effort.....only for me to respond "no, sorry, that's not what I meant".

What seems clear to me is generally not clear to a significant percentage of people....damn near half I would say and possibly even more.

My writing is ok, but sux in relation. I can write concisely enough for scientists or even lawyers to not assume they are reading the work of a layman, but one paragraph could take me hours to achieve that quality.

What I typically write, like this post, takes me minutes and I generally never edit or proof read before hitting "submit reply". I only edit after when there is an obvious phrasing that skews the content. Other than that, I let it rip.

For the record, I am still not at the tables and the lag is purely my fault. It's rare though.

Have I been working hard enough? In reality, no. Thats the honest truth and not being irrationally hard on myself. I should be putting in a solid 12 hours of deep concentrated practice, with breaks of course and good solid sleep.

I do not achieve this because if I did, I literally wouldnt have time to write or watch some of these great live stream snooker matches for instance. I really like doing those things and although i believe its beneficial as well, it makes me lag and I got to make a concerted decision here, considering I now have less than one year to go.

I always remember that one scene from the karate kid where mr miagi gave daniel a harsh dose of reality, that even as a young man watching it, i laughed because if i were daniel, i would know that reality is looming, and of course.....terrifying.

Watch from 1:40 to 2:00. I feel like daniel. July 1rst 2018.....just around the corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzXK1hDkqYc
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, let me ask you a question that I would appreciate you answer and for anyone else to give their 2cents......PLEASE

I have a falcon with a custom tapered conical type shaft design. No pro taper but a very very gradual increase in taper.

The cue over all is butt heavy at the balance point formula of what teams forward weighted vs rear weighted. It is rear weighted.

QUESTION:

Will dimensional characteristics of a stick, effect whether or not you stroke straighter, especially when you pull the trigger at follow through.


I've always been told by better players that "It's not the arrow used, it's the Indian"
I can say that I like a cue/shaft and tip that delivers the best "feel" of the cue ball weight to my grip hand. My grip hand is the only connection I have to the game. So. this is important to me.

I use a cheap McDermott butt with an OB-1+ shaft with a Balance Rite extension between the shaft and the butt. The extension added 2oz of weight to the middle of the cue and extended the length of the cue almost 4". This added middle weight to the middle of the cue made the cue feel more balanced to me. I had to experiment with the butt end weight until it felt good to me. I don't care for cues that feel too butt heavy.
When you write about the characteristics of a stick I have to write that the stick that feels good to you is the stick for you.


SECONDARY QUESTION:

Not related, but possibly connected........If one puts high right, yet strokes straight through at intended stroke angle, is a "glance" off to the right, yielding a end result of appearance of redirection or a unintended stroke.... inevitable?

Or, a intended solid stroke follow through should and will maintain its intended delivery angle?


Okay, I'll clumsily try to answer this. When shooting thru the center of the cue ball you have to get thru 2-1/4" of ball. Moving higher on the cue ball say high spin its only necessary to get thru the cue ball maybe an 1" or so.

Now knowing this, less force is required when using high spin. (depending on how high you go on the cue ball)

In order to keep the feel of the cue ball as consistent on your grip hand as possible it is best to stay within the core of the cue ball, I like to imagine that the core of the cue ball is about the size of a quarter, which is about an inch in diameter.

If the cue tip is about a 1/2" in diameter then you will always have a strong feel for the weight of the cue ball and your stroke will remain more consistent.


What all of this means is that very little allowance for any spin used on the cue ball would greatly influence the path of the cue ball to the object ball.

I do realize that there are times when the cue ball has to be struck outside the core, in which case an allowance for swerve would have to be made.


I try to always stay within the core of the cue ball.

I believe these questions are clear.

PARAMETERS:

For the sake of accuracy and efficiency, state answers as "unsure" of question but here's "my opinion".

.....or

State the questions are unclear and specify why and I'll do my best to make it clearer.

These are the rules, but the exact wording does not have to be used, just make sure if anyone responds, that they reply obviously clear as to the questions stated.

REASON:

I personally dont want to see anyone waste their time if they put in a lot of effort.....only for me to respond "no, sorry, that's not what I meant".

What seems clear to me is generally not clear to a significant percentage of people....damn near half I would say and possibly even more.

My writing is ok, but sux in relation. I can write concisely enough for scientists or even lawyers to not assume they are reading the work of a layman, but one paragraph could take me hours to achieve that quality.

What I typically write, like this post, takes me minutes and I generally never edit or proof read before hitting "submit reply". I only edit after when there is an obvious phrasing that skews the content. Other than that, I let it rip.

For the record, I am still not at the tables and the lag is purely my fault. It's rare though.

Have I been working hard enough? In reality, no. Thats the honest truth and not being irrationally hard on myself. I should be putting in a solid 12 hours of deep concentrated practice, with breaks of course and good solid sleep.

I do not achieve this because if I did, I literally wouldnt have time to write or watch some of these great live stream snooker matches for instance. I really like doing those things and although i believe its beneficial as well, it makes me lag and I got to make a concerted decision here, considering I now have less than one year to go.

I always remember that one scene from the karate kid where mr miagi gave daniel a harsh dose of reality, that even as a young man watching it, i laughed because if i were daniel, i would know that reality is looming, and of course.....terrifying.

Watch from 1:40 to 2:00. I feel like daniel. July 1rst 2018.....just around the corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzXK1hDkqYc

My comments are in "red" to your questions.

It would be interesting to read how others respond to your questions.

Your 100% right. When the technicalities/fundamentals of this game have been worked out the game becomes a boat load of fun. :)

I would also add that I have what is called a task specific tremor in my right grip hand and arm. My left grip hand and arm are as steady as a rock. I practice shooting left handed when I get tired of shooting right handed. :) Nick Varner and my friend Bob also have the same issue. I'm in my 70's so it really is a minor issue.

John
 
Last edited:

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My comments are in "red" to your questions.

It would be interesting to read how others respond to your questions.

Your 100% right. When the technicalities/fundamentals of this game have been worked out the game becomes a boat load of fun. :)

I would also add that I have what is called a task specific tremor in my right grip hand and arm. My left grip hand and arm are as steady as a rock. I practice shooting left handed when I get tired of shooting right handed. :) Nick Varner and my friend Bob also have the same issue. I'm in my 70's so it really is a minor issue.

John

Thanks for your input:smile:

The first answer was not exactly what I was looking for, but I agree about feel. I now play with a custom Gullyassy full time that I got a month ago but the feel was so alien, I stuck with my falcon until Yesterday.The Gullyassy built by Mike Gullyassy is very sensitive. It is forward weighted and a 18" pro taper and 11.5 millimeter diameter. It's also 57 1/2" long, as a shorter cue is supposed to be more accurate.

What I found after solving my alignment mysteries, was that I don't stroke straight with my falcon and I have no idea if it's a matter of rear weighting, butt diameter, shaft taper etc etc.

If anyone says it doesnt matter, I will debate that.

I never paid attention to stroke direction because I had to be so conscience of cb reaction after ob contact in my experiments.

So, now I started paying attention and my falcon set up is simply not controllable for me. So i pulled out my Gullyassy, which I always did since I got it and at least played a few hours a day with it.

Well, I was very happy that it did in fact stroke straighter for me and was confirmed again today for the few hours I practiced so far, so I'm hoping i am simply not experiencing what is known as something of a "Hawthorne effect" and this cue becomes my winner.

As far as the second question, I apologize because it is retardedly UNCLEAR.

My apologies sir and to anyone else.

Let me make it clear.

If I line up on a shot high center. Now i pivot right with back hand english. Lets say its a 5 degree shaft angle to the right now of vertical shot line through cb.

Clear enough so far? I hope so.

Ok, now i pull the trigger and stroke through that cb at the pivoted 5 degree angle.

Am I to expect because the tip is glancing off high center of cb, it could finish after cb delivery at more than 5 degrees? Or if you stroke correctly as intended, that 5 degrees will be maintained?

Now thats a pivoted shaft angle. If a glance is expected, then would a glance effect be expected if i applied high right english, but not pivoted, but what I call parallel english?

I guess when I get my camera set up, I'll find out but I have no clue as to what is expected.

I hope this is clear, thanks.

And yes, I totally know what you mean by feel when striking off center. For instance, when shooting low draw, the feel in "thin" because you are not striking much mass as opposed to center cb.

The value I found in that distinction was there were many mysterious times when I would apply some sort of extreme english, pull the trigger, and the feel of contact would be what I termed as "hitting a brick wall"......definitely not thin and of course, hardly any spin on cb.

Hmmmmmmm, wtf is going on here? My friend, 1000's of hours to get to the bottom of these mysteries.

What I have accomplished is very unique unless I'm mistaken, and if i am mistaken and most can do this as if its obvious and no big deal, then I will seriously contemplate quitting today because I am way too stupid for this game.

What I have done is figured out how to line up and apply english on both sides of the cb on command, yet angled english and parallel english AND be able to re-pivot inward from either side.

In other words, if I back hand low left english, i can also apply a slight shaft angle pivot to the right and still maintain the low left.

This has a very unique effect on the cb which I believe can deliver total control of basically any desired effect of cb position within physical limits. I can do this from any side of the cb on most table positions. This may sound easy but I really dont think it is.

The question now is controlling it and applying it, and I'm at about 35% control at best I believe.

Also, for the record, from my analysis, center cue ball is considered a safe zone of predictability I surmise, but one thing ive found, a half tip miss strike off center and some very wild and radical reactions occur after ob contact.....a miss is certainly likely, but damn how that miss equates to a exotic bank that i can only reproduce with that sort of off center cb strike.

I have no clue why the effect is so radical other than I simply don't know what the hell im talking about just yet.

I bet you do or know more than I at 70 and man that sucks about your condition, as well as Nick Varner.

Nick is the most technically and sophisticated player I ever witnessed with my own eyes. I really don't think someone as devastating as Orcollo or Shaw or many others, if not all others, have those nuance abilities like Nick.

......fairly certain I'm right about that but who knows. Ans as far as old school players like Hoppe and so forth, I'm really warming up to the notion they were the best players ever.
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What I have accomplished is very unique unless I'm mistaken, and if i am mistaken and most can do this as if its obvious and no big deal, then I will seriously contemplate quitting today because I am way too stupid for this game.
I'm sure you feel you're extremely insightful and deductive with your epistles about shooting pool. But, Unique? I doubt that very much.
There are just too many thousands of pool players out there doing advanced theoretical thinking themselves. The odds on your work being unique are prohibitive

Google says:
u·nique
yo͞oˈnēk/
adjective
adjective: unique
1.
being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.

Your posts are most interesting, however.)
Keep on truckin' :thumbup:
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
.....
......
If I line up on a shot high center. Now i pivot right with back hand english. Lets say its a 5 degree shaft angle to the right now of vertical shot line through cb.

Clear enough so far? I hope so.

Ok, now i pull the trigger and stroke through that cb at the pivoted 5 degree angle.

Am I to expect because the tip is glancing off high center of cb, it could finish after cb delivery at more than 5 degrees? Or if you stroke correctly as intended, that 5 degrees will be maintained?

Now thats a pivoted shaft angle. If a glance is expected, then would a glance effect be expected if i applied high right english, but not pivoted, but what I call parallel english?
................

Yes. The weight of the CB would force the shaft to the right, sending the cue tip glancing away at a slightly wider angle than the initial 5° pivot, unless you used a very short bridge of 2 or 3 inches to cut back on shaft deflection. It shouldn't matter if you applied the spin with a pivot or a parallel stroke. The effects would be the same because the forces would still be the same.
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm sure you feel you're extremely insightful and deductive with your epistles about shooting pool. But, Unique? I doubt that very much.
There are just too many thousands of pool players out there doing advanced theoretical thinking themselves. The odds on your work being unique are prohibitive

Google says:
u·nique
yo͞oˈnēk/
adjective
adjective: unique
1.
being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.

Your posts are most interesting, however.)
Keep on truckin' :thumbup:

Ha ha don't forget, unique as in not very good too.

I been running my experiments with these combinations that I can apply and I'm suspecting that there's no difference with a third angle pivot inward that can't be achieved with just parallel or pivoted English.

However, I know for a fact that you can bend bank shots unaturally with a outside pivot inward shaft angle, so maybe for ball pocketing, it has no merit but I haven't confirmed it just yet.

However, it does give me a different look at a shot that may help for particular shots I have perception problems with.

For the first time tonight, I ran a rack of 10 ball PERFECT from the 1 to the 10. Absolute perfect control and effortless. Doesn't mean I can run racks effortlessly and I'm ready to go. It just means every shot, I had perfect control and understanding of every execution. 2 1/2 years to achieve that and I did it tonight. That's a very positive thing and I suspect a cluster effect or convergence to a new level will happen soon. It's been long coming to be honest and I'm not happy with the progress but I always had faith.
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes. The weight of the CB would force the shaft to the right, sending the cue tip glancing away at a slightly wider angle than the initial 5° pivot, unless you used a very short bridge of 2 or 3 inches to cut back on shaft deflection. It shouldn't matter if you applied the spin with a pivot or a parallel stroke. The effects would be the same because the forces would still be the same.

Hey thanks and even though I will still need to confirm it, I believe you because it makes sense that I basically understood but I been fooled many times in this journey. This information is invaluable to me. Thanks.

Crap, I had a serious question to ask and now I forgot it but I'll remember hopefully by tomorrow and ask.

Thanks
 

JE54

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your writings are very interesting. Please keep writing. :)

The book you write about is called "The Little Book of Talent". I have the book on my pc, have the hard back and have the book on dvd. I listen to the dvd's on the way to work. The book is available on Amazon.

Here is another good piece of information that I live by.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCLYNzZ8LQ

And the video after the above.

Have fun out there.

John

Good video, food for thought..................
 
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