Anonymous Poll on Supporting Pro Tour

[jeephawk]

Voted "no" because it's too vague a hypothetical.

As such, I'm not sure you can draw anything at all from the tallied responses that would be meaningful. "No" doesn't mean someone doesn't "support" pro pool, or even an "organization" - so many other ways to support it. I bought a few cues from a couple different makers that actively support pro pool with their $, for example. I pay for streams. I'll probably attend an event this year again.

"Yes" at the $10 level for some might not be any better than an "I don't really care" response - it's $10.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

JJ.....we gotta hear about the Mormons....tell me more, mon

-wow...long off topic story warning!


Oh hey. Didn’t mean to leave anyone wondering lol I just never checked back till now.

The backstory to all this is a thing of beauty, a masterpiece too grand to type out on an iPad or even tell in tale without a J and a drink and a while to collect my thoughts.

But...I was living crazy, had a bad habit, all my friends were disappearing and I knew I had gotten lazy on protecting myself from prosecution...with my friends most likely in the hands of the fuzz I decided to run. Me and my friend Paul. He had to pick up his hard drive at a pawn shop because it had the only pictures of his daughter who he had left with her mom some unknown time ago in his real life, before I knew him.

Look there I go off on a tangent already lol..it was true though and perfectly heartbreaking. I remember so vividly because I just wanted to run but we had to go somewhere we were known “one last time” ..well we got the hard drive and got out but someone literally got stabbed in the throat and mad cops pulled up while I was waiting for him in another lot. Had I not been such a steadfast friend I may have left him without cause.

Fast forward about 400 miles. We’re at this T intersection (or maybe I just remember it as a T?) and one sign pointed left and said Las Vegas, the other was right or straight towards Salt Lake City... our final destination was Bend, Oregon.

I wanted to maybe hang out around Vegas for a while doing the lowlife thing, see if anything worked out but Paul talked me out of it. Oregon it was. Weed. Nice people. Trees. It was gonna be grand.

We’re now coming up on Salt Lake City, home of Mormons and suspicious police (who’re Mormons). We haven’t stopped for a buzz since 9:30 at night, it’s now 4:30am. I wanna stop and get feeling ok again, Paul says just wait these Mormons are crazy I just wanna drive past their city ASAP. I says “ok”

We’re trying to slip unobtrusively past on the highway when I notice some headlights about 2 miles back or more. Straight roads. Maybe it wasn’t really 2 miles, but little headlights way back. I have a bad feeling. A few seconds later the headlights doubled in size, I start shoving things where the police can’t look until much later, 2nd time in my life..

It’s no use. The car is literally a rolling felony. Everything we owned was in the car, and most of it was incriminating. The car flies up until he’s right on our left bumper, we try the classic “let’s act like we’re taking this exit” ..

A lil later I’m in handcuffs in the dark on this exit, the cops have Paul on the opposite side of the car. I can’t type much more but I really enjoy thinking about how F’d everything was for me at one point. Paul has fugitive warrants, but they don’t tell me this yet of course.

I had a large amount of contraband hidden in my person, and one tiny little chunk of felonious material in my 5th pocket that I completely forgot about! I was away from the cops for almost an hour as they searched this treasure trove of evidence, plenty of time to do anything with it. My stomach sank when the cop finally got around to searching me and I saw that sitting on the hood.

So aaanyway, I decide to take the heat for everything in my car, with the plan of giving Paul my fat stack of cash to bail me out immediately. I’m going down already anyway regardless, and my condition at the time required me to be on the streets and medicating 4-5 times a day. Nothing mattered as long as I could get out of their custody before insanity set in.

It didn’t work. We both end up in cars, heading to the jail house. I got to talking to my captor on the way and he was indeed a Mormon. I asked him why the F@#$ he even ran up on me like he did, we were cruise controlling 5 over, he said he thought we were meth heads...no proper Mormon would be out driving at 4am and a dead empty highway.

What followed was the worst detox I’ve been through, horrendous hallucinations and out of control bodily functions, but they never did find the things I had stashed. During in processing I went in the bathroom, took everything out, and simply put it in the pockets of my already thoroughly searched jeans. The old switcharoo. Though by the time I got out I was feeling great lol, nice and clean and sane...and I got out to a pocket full of bad stuff.


In defense of pool players everywhere I hadn’t even discovered the game at this time, so this isn’t more evidence of seedy pool players, just a tale of a guy who hadn’t found the way yet lol

 

[Maniac]

In defense of pool players everywhere I hadn’t even discovered the game at this time, so this isn’t more evidence of seedy pool players, just a tale of a guy who hadn’t found the way yet lol

Great story, pool-related or not.

I'm glad you're past that chapter of your life.

Maniac

 

[ShootingArts]

Good People By N Large

-wow...long off topic story warning!


Oh hey. Didn’t mean to leave anyone wondering lol I just never checked back till now.

The Mormons are good people by and large. My best friend was a Mormon from Salt Lake for a lot of years, now he is from Bountiful and still ranks as on of the top few friends I have. However, much like parts of South Louisiana, parts of Utah are ran by a theocracy, official or not. I seriously thought about moving up there. Asked my friend about it. He thought a minute or two before telling me that since I didn't smoke, drink, or do drugs I would probably be fine with the officials. My friend did two out of three of these things and had in the past done the third. Think he had put most of all of these things down. However, he was born a Mormon.

A chuckle, he and his dad were spending a week or two with some hunters. Every morning Bob would ask if anyone wanted any Bailey's. He didn't drink any other time but he liked to start his morning with a slug of Bailey's in his coffee. Took about a week for people to figure out he was saying Bailey's, not bay leaves! They were all wondering why he put bay leaves in his coffee!

Father and son, two of the finest people I ever met. The son did scalp somebody once but they had it coming. Flying the scalp from his truck antenna was rubbing things in a bit!

Hu

 

[JazzyJeff87]

Lol yeah I met some cool Mormons myself while I was visiting. Even true gangster Mormons, it was strange to me having never even been to church. I stayed around there for a little bit. I just like to blame them but I suspect I may have had it coming.

 

[ShootingArts]

It does sound faintly possible!

Lol yeah I met some cool Mormons myself while I was visiting. Even true gangster Mormons, it was strange to me having never even been to church. I stayed around there for a little bit. I just like to blame them but I suspect I may have had it coming.

Yeah, does sound like you were an arrest waiting to happen. Some mexicans came through with the mammoth ford wagon so full of pot they couldn't see out and the windows were all fogged due to the stuff still curing. Then they were speeding, dumb de dumb dumb! That was when a load of pot got you a lot of time too.

A friend had a '58 chevy, He had carefully hollowed things out to haul a hundred keys and the car look empty. Worked like a bandit. Then he let somebody talk him into hauling a one key sample after he was fully loaded. When they found him with the key they tore the car apart. It wasn't built to withstand that kind of search. He did hard time.

Fast times and hard times. I wus innercent, almost anyway!

Hu

 

[Diamond69]

Why I voted no

While I voted no for $10 to support professional pool, I would pay $10 monthly for a pool related cable channel.

Assuming this channel did have tournament matches, high quality matchups, some training programs, etc.

Similar to the golf channel. They obviously would then have a marketing team working on ads based on viewership (hopefully not all pooldawg and Predator, but actual mass market companies like soft drinks, airlines,etc.).

 

[Maniac]

While I voted no for $10 to support professional pool, I would pay $10 monthly for a pool related cable channel.

Assuming this channel did have tournament matches, high quality matchups, some training programs, etc.

Actually, a good portion of that $10 would need to go to the players since they are ones that are providing the product, Problem is, most of that $10 would probably have to pay for the television rights/marketing/production costs and there would be little left to give to the players. Then the players would start *****ing (rightfully so) that they weren't garnering enough of the proceeds, form a union (we all know how that worked out for them), and go on strike until they received more money. Then you...you'd be paying $10 a month for a pool channel showing reruns of last years pool tournaments.

Then guess what happens. Yep...before you know it the pool players get more money from the network and the monthly cost to you would jump up to $18-a-month. Another year goes by and the monthly cost to you would probably exceed $20.

We've all had cable/satellite television...we all know how this works.

So before you ever subscribe to the "Professional Pool Channel" you've got to ask yourself..."is this really worth $20 (and rising) a month to me"?

Go to a Major League Baseball game and see if you spend the same money as you did when you went to one 10 years ago. Basically the same principal...gotta pay the players.

There is no fix for professional pool. At least not until someone can come up with a format that the general public can "wrap their heads around". Just my opinion.

Maniac

 

[ShootingArts]

small pie at best

Actually, a good portion of that $10 would need to go to the players since they are ones that are providing the product, Problem is, most of that $10 would probably have to pay for the television rights/marketing/production costs and there would be little left to give to the players. Then the players would start *****ing (rightfully so) that they weren't garnering enough of the proceeds, form a union (we all know how that worked out for them), and go on strike until they received more money. Then you...you'd be paying $10 a month for a pool channel showing reruns of last years pool tournaments.

Then guess what happens. Yep...before you know it the pool players get more money from the network and the monthly cost to you would jump up to $18-a-month. Another year goes by and the monthly cost to you would probably exceed $20.

We've all had cable/satellite television...we all know how this works.

So before you ever subscribe to the "Professional Pool Channel" you've got to ask yourself..."is this really worth $20 (and rising) a month to me"?

Go to a Major League Baseball game and see if you spend the same money as you did when you went to one 10 years ago. Basically the same principal...gotta pay the players.

There is no fix for professional pool. At least not until someone can come up with a format that the general public can "wrap their heads around". Just my opinion.

Maniac

The players overestimate their importance; no players, nothing to show an audience. True enough, but as we are seeing right now, no promoter, no event. No venue, no event either! The players think that a venue that can be used otherwise should be furnished, a promoter should add money, and they should get all of the pie. Why on God's green earth would any venue or promoter want to do this? Add that some of the players, different ones at different times, always start crap or try to game the event turning it into a poopshow so they can make a quick buck.

In their own mind an entity had committed five million dollars to men's pro pool. The first event cost a million. The venue didn't suit the players, the major sponsor, an outside entity not related to pool, was mocked and embarrassed at the event. Everything about it turned into the usual ME ME ME that men's pro pool has became. That entity like others before them took their other four million and went away!

It is possible to build men's pro pool but it is going to take five to ten years of a cooperative effort to make that happen. That was true in seventy-three when I considered going pro, it has been true all of the time since, it is true now.

I understand that it is hard for people that can't pay their bills to take the long view but the live for today mentality has ran away millions of dollars. My life hasn't been a bed of roses but I do thank goodness I didn't try to go the pro pool route!

Until players start working with promoters, sponsors, and venues we will keep on just as pool has been for the last fifty plus years. I don't know of any game or sport that has squandered as many opportunities as men's pro pool.

Hu

 

[336Robin]

Most people want something for their money and here is a guy that's doing that.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=507719

I think he has a much a chance of seeing it through as anyone I've come across.

Now will players play?

 

[Maniac]

The players overestimate their importance; no players, nothing to show an audience. True enough, but as we are seeing right now, no promoter, no event. No venue, no event either! The players think that a venue that can be used otherwise should be furnished, a promoter should add money, and they should get all of the pie. Why on God's green earth would any venue or promoter want to do this? Add that some of the players, different ones at different times, always start crap or try to game the event turning it into a poopshow so they can make a quick buck.

In their own mind an entity had committed five million dollars to men's pro pool. The first event cost a million. The venue didn't suit the players, the major sponsor, an outside entity not related to pool, was mocked and embarrassed at the event. Everything about it turned into the usual ME ME ME that men's pro pool has became. That entity like others before them took their other four million and went away!

Hu

Except for the $$$ numbers, it sounds like you are describing the one-and-done Galveston World Classic to a T.

Maniac (was there)

 

[ShootingArts]

not the one, but one

Except for the $$$ numbers, it sounds like you are describing the one-and-done Galveston World Classic to a T.

Maniac (was there)

Not the one I am talking about best I recall but there were three or four events that were supposed to be the first of many that died aborning. The total cost of the event was roughly a million. the players only saw a fraction of that because of real costs. I don't think it was common knowledge that the entity had four more barrels to fire.

Might have gotten TV coverage with the network paying for showing the event instead of the other way around after a few good events. It almost makes me sick thinking about how close pool has been to getting some traction as a serious sport only to fall through.

The players want and need more and bigger purses. What they can't seem to understand is that they literally aren't worth the purses they are getting now. Allen Hall is the only promoter I know of that has the connections and savvy to make a buck as a promoter. Everyone else loses money much of the time. The US Open as slow as pay was, was a labor of love. It was a money loser most years.

Until the pro players can generate income for other people, they can't generate much in the way of income for themselves either. If you look up "Professional" in the dictionary, according to most definitions there aren't a half-dozen pro players in the US. I think most games and sports grow from amateur to pro in small steps over time. Problem is we have a bunch of wannabe pro's with no place to earn a living on a regular basis.

I wish the past, present, and future, didn't look so bleak for men's pool. However, I think we would agree that doing the same old thing is gonna get the same old results.

Hu

 

[336Robin]

Pool is an you're all in business when you consider the cost of tables that people want to play on. I did some research on it and its a good time for it because a lot
of places in the small towns the rent uptown is cheap but....the tables aren't cheap if you want top notch tables.

Sometimes you can buy 10,15 or more tables and get a deal but you're talking old Gold Crowns and by the time you get them right its still not cheap and you need some type of food service.
Food Service on the cheap is available today with the type of precooked frozen stuff that's available for bar type food but to have a lasting effect you don't need alcohol in the room. Alcohol
means kids might not be allowed in. That is the big problem pool has. No generational feed except what comes from the Pool League System..

Not the one I am talking about best I recall but there were three or four events that were supposed to be the first of many that died aborning. The total cost of the event was roughly a million. the players only saw a fraction of that because of real costs. I don't think it was common knowledge that the entity had four more barrels to fire.

Might have gotten TV coverage with the network paying for showing the event instead of the other way around after a few good events. It almost makes me sick thinking about how close pool has been to getting some traction as a serious sport only to fall through.

The players want and need more and bigger purses. What they can't seem to understand is that they literally aren't worth the purses they are getting now. Allen Hall is the only promoter I know of that has the connections and savvy to make a buck as a promoter. Everyone else loses money much of the time. The US Open as slow as pay was, was a labor of love. It was a money loser most years.

Until the pro players can generate income for other people, they can't generate much in the way of income for themselves either. If you look up "Professional" in the dictionary, according to most definitions there aren't a half-dozen pro players in the US. I think most games and sports grow from amateur to pro in small steps over time. Problem is we have a bunch of wannabe pro's with no place to earn a living on a regular basis.

I wish the past, present, and future, didn't look so bleak for men's pool. However, I think we would agree that doing the same old thing is gonna get the same old results.

Hu

 

[336Robin]

This was a great poll. Thanks everyone for participating. I may modify a future poll to allow more choices at a later date.

1221 clicks in a few days, 83 people voted and it was about 50/50 Yes vs. No.

If half the clicks were people coming back twice then around 600 people were curious enough to at least read it.

 

[tbryant67]

I'd pay $10 if we could get pool back on TV somewhere on a regular basis

 

[Sandman]

Thank you for the support!

Most people want something for their money and here is a guy that's doing that.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=507719

I think he has a much a chance of seeing it through as anyone I've come across.

Now will players play?

Thank you for your support and for understanding the entire business plan and formula for a self-sustaining and profit generating American resident only Pro Tour & Billiards League that benefits EVERYONE involved.

Players competing get 75% of the generated money, the 32 venues hosting stage 1 qualifiers and main events collectively get about 5%, Tournament Directors at all the venues across the nation also collectively get 5%, and the rest goes towards 5% production, 5% advertisement, and 5% administrative costs.

The NBL structure also allows FREE VIEWING for all for most events.

Only 4 events will be PPV for the hardcore contributing fans and viewers at a low cost per day or special price for the entire 3 day event.

Once the event concludes, a fully edited and produced product will released for FREE online for archive viewing and quick easy watching for Television and the general public. Attention spans are short. TV stations won't broadcast 3 full days of pool for 12 hours each day. Too slow and boring. However, a fully produced 1-2 hour event showing the path of the 4 finalists and the semi finals and finals may just be exciting and fast enough.

 

[336Robin]

You're right as far as I'm concerned. I can't sit and watch pool unless its
live.Large viewing audiences might happen under different circumstances but even
then I'm not that interested. I like to watch a selected match and that's about it. I
hope you do well and wish you the best!

Thank you for your support and for understanding the entire business plan and formula for a self-sustaining and profit generating American resident only Pro Tour & Billiards League that benefits EVERYONE involved.

Players competing get 75% of the generated money, the 32 venues hosting stage 1 qualifiers and main events collectively get about 5%, Tournament Directors at all the venues across the nation also collectively get 5%, and the rest goes towards 5% production, 5% advertisement, and 5% administrative costs.

The NBL structure also allows FREE VIEWING for all for most events.

Only 4 events will be PPV for the hardcore contributing fans and viewers at a low cost per day or special price for the entire 3 day event.

Once the event concludes, a fully edited and produced product will released for FREE online for archive viewing and quick easy watching for Television and the general public. Attention spans are short. TV stations won't broadcast 3 full days of pool for 12 hours each day. Too slow and boring. However, a fully produced 1-2 hour event showing the path of the 4 finalists and the semi finals and finals may just be exciting and fast enough.

 

[mvp]

No. I will continue to support events by attending them, pandemics permitting, and donating to prize funds.

I would be happy to join the NGB (national governing body) if the US had one that had player memberships. Sadly, there is no such body in the US for pool. Presumably it would support top events in the US.

Perfect answer