Are Top Level Pool Players Better Today?

[CageyCraigey]

As I continue my pool journey, I often compare it to other sports I have played or been around at a professional level. I was fortunate enough to know some top level professional golfers whose prime years were in the 1960's but were still obviously skilled players into their fifties and sixties and in one case into his seventies. While talking about an elite few, these players would often mention equipment changes, changes in golf course technology, being able to adapt their game to age as reasons they still were able to compete.

I suppose pool tables, balls and cues have all got better over the years and I imagine like top level golf it is really hard to compare the top players of the past versus the top players today.

But to bring it down to a level for an amateur who does more than bash balls and is looking to constantly improve (like myself) what do you guys think are the timeless qualities pool players had back in the day that are still just as relevant, today. And does equipment really make a difference in that way? From reading online, for example, it seems that even elite pool players in the 1950's and 1960's played all their games with a single cue (no break cue) for example. Why did they not need a break cue? Was it just not thought of?

Having learned how to play 9-Ball and Saratoga in recent weeks - a guy I play friendly 8 Ball games with and I got talking and I mentioned The Twilight Zone episode "A Game of Pool" and how they played straight pool. He grew up playing the game and he and I are going to get together and play it very soon. So excited to learn another pool game! Also about that TZ episode, I have a strange connection to it. My mentor in Northern California Horse Racing Owning and Breeding became friends with Jack Klugman (who owned many racehorses) when she was a college intern at Santa Anita. Jack also knew her Dad who worked as a Fire Officer on the set of many TV shows in the era the The Twilight Zone was made.

Thanks,

Craig

 

[CageyCraigey]

My mind is a rambling one. Feel free to miss my posts going forward.

 

[straightline]

Old school (<--- hate this expression) Heart.
Now school, Prep. Not just more pool but more readiness. If they're in the registration line, they're dialed in to hit it running.

So much for the hype.

 

[Poolhall60561]

Yes

 

[sammylane12]

No offense but your thread asks a very simple question but the body of your post is kinda rambling. Level of play at the top class is higher than ever imo. So many more REALLY good players now its a joke. Why? Lots of reasons, no one thing you can point to.

I think one reason you can point to is the exponentially burgeoning number players worldwide. There are bound to be some great ones in there.

 

[justnum]

Today's players are more pampered.

Women are better.

Men are worse and more embarrassing.

Matchroom pool is only for players that have the cash upfront and the bankroll to last.

A paywall creates a skill gap between rec players and career players

 

[sammylane12]

As I continue my pool journey, I often compare it to other sports I have played or been around at a professional level. I was fortunate enough to know some top level professional golfers whose prime years were in the 1960's but were still obviously skilled players into their fifties and sixties and in one case into his seventies. While talking about an elite few, these players would often mention equipment changes, changes in golf course technology, being able to adapt their game to age as reasons they still were able to compete.

I suppose pool tables, balls and cues have all got better over the years and I imagine like top level golf it is really hard to compare the top players of the past versus the top players today.

But to bring it down to a level for an amateur who does more than bash balls and is looking to constantly improve (like myself) what do you guys think are the timeless qualities pool players had back in the day that are still just as relevant, today. And does equipment really make a difference in that way? From reading online, for example, it seems that even elite pool players in the 1950's and 1960's played all their games with a single cue (no break cue) for example. Why did they not need a break cue? Was it just not thought of?

Having learned how to play 9-Ball and Saratoga in recent weeks - a guy I play friendly 8 Ball games with and I got talking and I mentioned The Twilight Zone episode "A Game of Pool" and how they played straight pool. He grew up playing the game and he and I are going to get together and play it very soon. So excited to learn another pool game! Also about that TZ episode, I have a strange connection to it. My mentor in Northern California Horse Racing Owning and Breeding became friends with Jack Klugman (who owned many racehorses) when she was a college intern at Santa Anita. Jack also knew her Dad who worked as a Fire Officer on the set of many TV shows in the era the The Twilight Zone was made.

Thanks,

Craig

I think top players are better than ever. However that does not mean that if you took, say, Mosconi and put him and his talent in todays world it would be that way. I think he would probably be a dominant player today. Several others too.

 

[skogstokig]

Matchroom pool is only for players that have the cash upfront and the bankroll to last.

A paywall creates a skill gap between rec players and career players

come on, give it a go with your paper cue and disability bridge. we're behind you

 

[Zerksies]

In general i would say yes, The todays players have access to knowlege that players of the previous generations didn't have. While their are exceptions to any rule.

 

[sjm]

No offense but your thread asks a very simple question but the body of your post is kinda rambling. Level of play at the top class is higher than ever imo. So many more REALLY good players now its a joke. Why? Lots of reasons, no one thing you can point to.

SammyLane12 has it right here. It's the "burgeoning number of players worldwide."

Yes, there is one reason above them all, and that's the globalization of the game, which is, at least to some extent, a result of when pool was recognized as a sport by the International Olympic Committee (2001 if memory serves). That put a lot of money in the coffers of many national pool federations worldwide. Although the Olympic dream was never realized, pool began to grow in countries all over the world, and that growth has brought us more great players that we could have ever imagined.

Pool producers are bringing major events worldwide to countries that have never had one. In Matchroom's case, they brought major events to Spain, Poland and Vietnam in 2023 and are bringing major events to Morocco, Mexico, Colombia, and Saudi Arabia in 2024.

The growth in the last six or seven years has been mind-blowing, and we suddenly live in a world where the Fargo Top 30 has representation from Spain, Albania, Singapore, Austria, China, Poland, Vietnam, Bosnia, Japan, and Greece. Great pool players are being developed in every corner of the world and there is no end in sight.

 

[measureman]

I think today's players overall are better then those of the past.
I have been watching a lot of the current group on billiards TV and they are a little better.
But they are for the most part boring robots.
I'll take the players of old with personality and emotions,Earl and Siegal come to mind,much more fun to watch.

 

[Dimeball]

I think top players are better than ever. However that does not mean that if you took, say, Mosconi and put him and his talent in todays world it would be that way. I think he would probably be a dominant player today. Several others too.

I believe this is mostly correct. I do not believe that, a Mosconi for example, would dominate today. Two main reasons here, there are many times over the number a great players today than back then, who really dominates today, remember what this word means...Filler, Fedor, SVB, Albin, Ko's, none of them are winning everything. SVB kinda did for a decade in the early 2010's with the tourney's and challenge matches, but that's about it. Dominate is very strong, dominate to me means Jordan in the 90's, 6 rings in something like 8 years, that's domination all while taking a year off. No way that happens today...
Second - knowledge. Today all the secrets are out. The advantage the greats had back in the day with knowledge is gone, everybody knows all the sh!t, and if you don't youtube that sh!t...

this is just an opinion on how I see it. I believe the greats from any era will figure out how to compete and compete they will.
good day everyone.

 

[Colonel]

I think there’s MORE high caliber players in number but I don’t know if “they’re better”. It’s mostly about equipment that makes me say that. These newer players on Simonis may not have fared so well on old style cloth, it’s a different game. Also most of nowadays players are just tournament guys and while a number will gamble and some will gamble high I wonder how they’d fare on the older style cloth in say a 2-3 day session with the battle hardened gamblers of old that were indigenous to that type of environment and conditions. The same goes with older greats as to how well they may play in today’s environment of pristine playing conditions. It’s something we’ll never really know for sure.

 

[jason]

I think players are "better" today, but it's just not fair to compare. The GOAT debates get old and will never be agreed upon. As a society, we do this in every sport and I believe more today than in the past. If you look back at how the equipment has changed and the technology we use, the players of today are supposed to be better. How could they not? That being said, it's not always easy to say they are. Case in point, Mosconi's straight pool record stood for over 40 years and the equipment improved yet none of the modern players broke the record. On the other side of that coin, straight pool fell out of favor. That's why it is almost impossible to compare generations.

Was Evel Knievel the greatest dare devil of all-time? I think it is fair to say he sucked compared what to the guys today can do. This is an extreme case of how technology has changed, but Evel didn't have the computers to calculate the physics or video tape to study. In pool, knowledge was and is king to a certain level. Watching thousands of hours of video and learning from the countless instructors today, the players from the past didn't have access to this luxury. So what are we really comparing and how can you do it fairly? In the end, everyone has their opinion and it doesn't mean others are wrong. It's just an opinion.

 

[Swighey]

Yes of course they are better today than they were in the past. This is obvious to anyone who watches the top players play pool.

 

[CageyCraigey]

Today's players are more pampered.

Women are better.

Men are worse and more embarrassing.

Matchroom pool is only for players that have the cash upfront and the bankroll to last.

A paywall creates a skill gap between rec players and career players

is it really a paywall or just the fact not many people will have the time or willing to dedicate the time and all the sacrifices it entails to achieve that standard of the game?

 

[CageyCraigey]

I think there’s MORE high caliber players in number but I don’t know if “they’re better”. It’s mostly about equipment that makes me say that. These newer players on Simonis may not have fared so well on old style cloth, it’s a different game. Also most of nowadays players are just tournament guys and while a number will gamble and some will gamble high I wonder how they’d fare on the older style cloth in say a 2-3 day session with the battle hardened gamblers of old that were indigenous to that type of environment and conditions. The same goes with older greats as to how well they may play in today’s environment of pristine playing conditions. It’s something we’ll never really know for sure.

In amateur golf there is a movement to play golf with old school equipment, wooden headed woods, etc and even organized competitions for it. Can you see a pool tournament say played with cues and balls pre 1990 (for example) ever appealing to any? I wonder if there are still good players out there using cues from the 50's and 60'd which until oversized metal woods came to the fore in golf, many pros were still using wooden headed drivers from that era. Jack Nicklaus used a wooden headed 3 wood from when he turned pro in 1962 all the way to 1998 for example.

 

[L.S. Dennis]

I think today's players overall are better then those of the past.
I have been watching a lot of the current group on billiards TV and they are a little better.
But they are for the most part boring robots.
I'll take the players of old with personality and emotions,Earl and Siegal come to mind,much more fun to watch.

I tend to agree with you on the 'boring robots' comment. Another thing is today's players take WAY too long to shoot when there's no shot clock in place. I attempted to watch some of the Scottish Open and had to turn it off, akin to watching paint dry! Last night I watched a match between Varner and Matlock and there's no question that those players played at a much faster clip than the players of today. Nine ball with today's player is BORING sans shot clock.

 

[slide13]

I don't think the equipment changes in pool have had near the impact that they've had in golf.

Yes, low deflection shafts make a difference, but even today there are some pros who play with standard maple shafts. Fewer and fewer as time goes on, but they exist. Low deflection helps a little, but top level pool can still be played with "old school" gear.

Pockets have maybe gotten a little tighter, cloth a little faster, balls a little more consistent...but it hasn't been massive.

Out of everything, the change in cloth may be the biggest difference.

But as Zerksies already mentioned, I think the biggest change is in access to information. Matches available on YouTube any hour of any day for review. Free online lessons and instructions covering every aspect of the game are available to anyone with an internet connection. This is information that one used to have to figure out for themselves or find another player friendly enough to share the little pieces of knowledge they had gathered themselves. To me that is a massive change that allows people to progress further faster.

Top level players had that knowledge in the past, it was necessary to get to the top level, but now more people have access to it and so the pool of people capable of reaching that top level is now larger.

 

[Island Drive]

I tend to agree with you on the 'boring robots' comment. Another thing is today's players take WAY too long to shoot when there's no shot clock in place. I attempted to watch some of the Scottish Open and had to turn it off, akin to watching paint dry! Last night I watched a match between Varner and Matlock and there's no question that those players played at a much faster clip than the players of today. Nine ball with today's player is BORING sans shot clock.

Ko Pin Yi sr. the older taller one, I have a problem with his ''up down look around'' on many shots, a mini ice man to this viewer.