Are you willing to put in the time?

[Calgaryplayer]

It's not "practice makes perfect";
It's -- Perfect practice makes perfect!!

Quality is ahead (or equal) to quantity.

 

[dr9ball]

I concur!

I would be interested in knowing age and years playing of the OP.

The older you get the more you realize that you better stop staring at the sky and get to work so that you can stop working earlier and stare st the sky later...

this is one of the most insightful quotes I have seen in a long time. Well done!

 

[Scott Lee]

duckie...Sorry, but what you're describing is "practicing playing"...not disciplined practice. There is a HUGE difference. One can practice playing 24/7 and you may, or may not improve much. On the contrary, disciplined practice (which is most easily learned from a qualified instructor), gives you a gigantic return on investment, for the time invested in this type of practice. Additionally, you cannot practice with discipline for hours at a time...the human mind is not built for it. Until you know WHAT to practice, and HOW to most efficiently practice...just time at the table won't do it (unless you're already at that elite level).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Well, are you? Are you willing to put in the time to master this sport? I mean Master and just not play well.

I was practicing the other day. I was doing what I call free form practice. That's just putting all 15 out there and running balls, looking for banks, combo's and carom's to do and so on. No real plan, no real thoughts, no concern about if I made the ball or not, nothing but hitting ball after ball.

I would put 15 away, pull'em out and repeat.

I went to pay for table time, I'd been there for 7 hours. That is 7 hours at the table hitting ball after ball after ball, without any breaks. I did not sit down once, nor delayed in getting the balls back on the table. It did not seem that long to me. I was so into just hitting ball after ball with no thoughts about time or the outcome of the shot. Just doing what was needed to do. Observing what was happening without judgement. Just seeing what was happening.

I enjoyed it so much that at least two sessions of this length will be done every week. I did ache somewhat afterwards, but that will go away with time.

This is the type of time and commitment that is required to master this sport. It is not found in any DVD, book, instructor, but comes from within you. Maybe its this type of commitment the top pro's have that makes the difference, willingness to put in the time.

FWIW

 

[Mike in MN]

7 hours with no breaks is probably a little overkill. You need a break. Give your mind time to absorb what it's learning. Then again, it's probably not overwhelmed with information, since you're just smacking balls around aimlessly.

Here's my pearl of wisdom. Go buy the book "The 99 Critical Shots in Pool." Bring it with you to the pool hall. Practice each one of those shots until you can make it 20 times in a row.

They start simple (I believe the first shot is a straight-in stop shot) and progress into things that get a little more challenging. Nevertheless, each and every single one of those shots will make you a better player. "Freeform" as you call it, will only get you so far.

You definitely have the determination, and it appears you have the time, so why not make the best of it? You'll soon grow tired of just rolling 15 balls onto the table and trying to make them. Challenge yourself to get better by aspiring to achieve more.

 

[Scott Lee]

Lou...I've also read that book, and it is spot on, particularly regarding my post above.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I'm reading an interesting book right now called, "Talent is Overrated" by Geoff Colvin, Senior Editor at Large of "Fortune." And in it he makes the case that what distinguishes great performance from average performance is not God-given, or innate talents, but what researchers call "deliberate practice." At one point he says, "Deliberate practice is hard. It hurts. But it works. More of it equals better performance. Tons of it equals great performance."

Interesting read.

Lou Figueroa

 

[crmdog]

Have you guys ever read "The Talent Code" by Daniel Coyle? I'm reading it right now and fits with what you're saying about deliberate practice. One of the most important concept he said was breaking practice something down into very small chunks and not advancing to the next "chunk" until you've mastered the first. For example, if you can't run out against the 9 ball ghost, start with the number of balls you can run and add additional one ball increments only once you can consistently run out the number you have been working with. Much better than randomly whacking through 9 balls.

Jim

 

[ICUE]

I believe in quality and quantity I started playing 2 years ago. Got a nine foot table and practiced 4 hours or more daily. A combination of stroking, ball pocketing and safety drills. I do that for a couple of hours then I practice running balls for a couple of hours. After 2 years I still suck but they won't let me play in any of the local B tournaments any more.

 

[randyg]

I'm reading an interesting book right now called, "Talent is Overrated" by Geoff Colvin, Senior Editor at Large of "Fortune." And in it he makes the case that what distinguishes great performance from average performance is not God-given, or innate talents, but what researchers call "deliberate practice." At one point he says, "Deliberate practice is hard. It hurts. But it works. More of it equals better performance. Tons of it equals great performance."

Interesting read.

Lou Figueroa

Great book Lou. We use it Pool School daily....SPF=randyg

 

[mullyman]

I don't know whats wrong or what part of your back hurts after an hour or so of pool but I have lower back problems and wear a back brace. My back doesn't tighten or swell up like it use to. The braces they make now are light, vented, and not uncomfortable after a few hours getting use to it. You can buy good ones in pharmacies and supermarkets for about $25. I have the Futuro brand. I can play for a longer periods of time now. I'm 70. Johnnyt

Back brace? Is that what they call girdles these days? Haha!!

 

[Johnnyt]

Back brace? Is that what they call girdles these days? Haha!!

Yes, it holds my tummy in also to keep my figure :grin:. Johnnyt

 

[Falcon Eddie]

When I was boxing my trainer/coach would tell me do what the other guy isn't willing to do. So I trained like I was fighting King Kong.I have taken this approach in my practice . But I have seen guys who looked great in the gym with their training but when they got in the ring they did something completely different. You should practice like you play and play like you practice. No amount of time can teach this. It's not how long you do something but that what you do for the period of time that you do it is right. Practicing to long can make you start picking up bad habits. Better to concentrate on the things that need improvement in the beginning. Finer motions first. Then endurance.

 

[lfigueroa]

If you read the top players bio’s from the past and the present you’ll find that a very big percentage of them had family or relatives that owned a poolroom where they could practice for free 24/7. A lot had a Father that played pro speed and taught them early how to play well. Other top pros had a home table as a child with good players like father, relative, or good friend teach them how to play. If it was Dad’s or a relatives poolroom good players would take them under their wing because they saw the kid wanted to learn and had some talent, and some would teach and play with them to kiss the father or relative’s a$$ that owned the poolrooms for free time.

Most of the above started hanging around pro players at a very young age and gamble with them to judge their improvement.

You have to have natural talent but most pro spent 8 hours or more a day practicing and gambling for years before he turned pro. Johnnyt

The thing about having a dad, or just a mentor, who plays at a high level is that they can immediately get you to zoom in on things about the game that you might not discover on your own for years and years and years. I mean, it's way beyond what you'd get from taking lessons with a good instructor.

When I think about the things I work on now during practice, I sometimes think about what kind of player I'd be now if I'd started working on all that 20 or 30 years ago.

Lou Figueroa
took the long way
up the mountain

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou you hit the nail on the head when you said "Deliberate practice", just pocketing ball after ball and not thinking about anything is not deliberate. Working on/practicing specific elements of the game (stroke, eye patterns, speed control etc) and quantifying/measuring the results are deliberate practice. The OP obviously believes he acquired some benefit from making balls for 7 hours. Though I would assert that his progress would be faster if he approached practice in a more systematic way (perhaps even shorter practice sessions, focused on specific areas he wants to improve).

Exactly. It's not just about hitting balls. It's about paying attention and theorizing, observing and the doing it again and again until your theories are confirmed.

A while back I read or heard an interview with a guy who said that the great ones -- the people that really achieve a high level of success in their chosen discipline, are the ones that can fractionate a task. IOW, they are able to break down what they are trying to do into tiny itsy bitsy components, far smaller than their peers. And it is this ability that allows then to successfully work on and perfect their performance.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou...I've also read that book, and it is spot on, particularly regarding my post above.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Yes, it's a great book, Scott. I just started it, but I'm looking forward to the rest of it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Have you guys ever read "The Talent Code" by Daniel Coyle? I'm reading it right now and fits with what you're saying about deliberate practice. One of the most important concept he said was breaking practice something down into very small chunks and not advancing to the next "chunk" until you've mastered the first. For example, if you can't run out against the 9 ball ghost, start with the number of balls you can run and add additional one ball increments only once you can consistently run out the number you have been working with. Much better than randomly whacking through 9 balls.

Jim

I wonder if this is the guy who talked about being able to fractionate a task?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Great book Lou. We use it Pool School daily....SPF=randyg

It's pretty interesting stuff. I also like what he says about the accepted level of performance going up over the years.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Johnnyt]

The thing about having a dad, or just a mentor, who plays at a high level is that they can immediately get you to zoom in on things about the game that you might not discover on your own for years and years and years. I mean, it's way beyond what you'd get from taking lessons with a good instructor.

When I think about the things I work on now during practice, I sometimes think about what kind of player I'd be now if I'd started working on all that 20 or 30 years ago.

Lou Figueroa
took the long way
up the mountain

Exactly. They have a very big advantage from a very young age surounded by family and friends that are pros or very good players.
My Dad was a road player in the 1920's and 30's and he tried to teach me the finer points of the game, but as soon as I was good enough to make a nice weekly paycheck hustling the bars I stopped listening...I knew it all. Steve Cook offered to help me with my game for free because we were friends and he thought I could be much better. I blew him off as soon as he wanted me to practice drills. CM Lee tried to help, even Mike Segal.

It's funny. Two years ago I started playing again after 5 years away from the table for health reasons. I had to learn just about everything all over again. This time I listened, read books, dvd's, do drills, and practice about 4 hours a day. Now at 70 I play as good or better on a BB than I did when I was at my top speed 40 years ago. And my/most tables have tighter pockets today. Johnnyt

 

[IbeAnEngineer]

Nope. I cant put in what I do not have and that is a lot of spare time.

 

[MOJOE]

I'm reading an interesting book right now called, "Talent is Overrated" by Geoff Colvin, Senior Editor at Large of "Fortune."

Interesting read.

Lou Figueroa

Good call Lou.. I bought the audio book so I could listen to it on my commute and it's quite inspiring.. I'm 41 and have never dedicated myself to practice like I need to and this book has inspired me to do so..

I am finding the studies fascinating.. The stuff about Tiger and Mozart makes perfect sense. As mentioned, talent is definitely overrated.. One of my favorite books of all time.

Thank you for the recommendation.

Joey

 

[book collector]

You are fortunate to be able to play for 7 hours straight. I have a bad back and usually only play for 30 to 45 minutes. I live in an over 55 community and we have a great billiards/card room with two nine foot Gandy tables. I usually shoot 3 to 5 games of 8 ball because I concentrate on position play. I guess doing drills might be more productive as fas as improvement but they're boring. I do sometimes do the straight in drill where you line up 9 balls across the table and shoot them in, one at a time, from in the kitchen. When I do play someone, we usually play for 1 to 1.5 hours before I get tired. Anyone have any suggestions?

I also have a bad back, herniated and crushed discs, if your problem is not a degenerative one I would go to a sports doctor and ask about therapy and exercise, unfortuneately those just do more damage in my case, hopefully you will be ok.