How? What changes?
If, according to you, BHE skews the mechanics, how does an upper body pivot not?
BHE vs FHE
- Thread starter slach
- Start date
Dr. Dave has debunked an arm swoop for BHE, thoroughly.
However, there is "pro BHE" also, which I use for some strokes, and which pro friends use, too:
1) Cue and practice stroke for center CB
2) On the final forward stroke only, pronate or supinate the wrist a tiny amount to add english (for example, feel as if you are stroking through the center of a ghost cue ball behind the CB, then deviate the motion a tiny increment as you finish the stroke)
3) This creates a different angle of approach than moving both hands parallel to impart spin (or pivoting at address to impart spin using a straight stroke diagonally aimed across the shot line aka the classic english stroke)
No, you don't get more english with "pro BHE", that would be a physical impossibility. Yet the different angle of approach changes the CB's initial direction and amount of spin than other english strokes as described in #3 above, so results are better, including less adjustment of aim needed on the OB to pocket the ball.
However, there is "pro BHE" also, which I use for some strokes, and which pro friends use, too:
1) Cue and practice stroke for center CB
2) On the final forward stroke only, pronate or supinate the wrist a tiny amount to add english (for example, feel as if you are stroking through the center of a ghost cue ball behind the CB, then deviate the motion a tiny increment as you finish the stroke)
3) This creates a different angle of approach than moving both hands parallel to impart spin (or pivoting at address to impart spin using a straight stroke diagonally aimed across the shot line aka the classic english stroke)
No, you don't get more english with "pro BHE", that would be a physical impossibility. Yet the different angle of approach changes the CB's initial direction and amount of spin than other english strokes as described in #3 above, so results are better, including less adjustment of aim needed on the OB to pocket the ball.
Correct!! There is NO SWOOP. NONE! "Mr. Webster" was mentioned yesterday about the definition of the "SWOOP". Here's his actual definition of the word: "swooping" move rapidly downwards through the air.
"the barn owl can swoop down on a mouse in total darkness". The correct word would be SWIPE, but it's still incorrect because that is what DOES NOT happen!
BINGO!! This is IT! #2 is what many of the old timers used to do with the wrist, pronate or supinate the wrist at the start or into the forward stroke.
Now, will they knock and belittle what you posted or just scream "whacko"!??
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For me, BHE just happens automatically when I’m applying spin. It’s not something I think about. After all these decades of playing with BHE before I even knew what it was or that I’ve always done it, if I tried to adjust to FHE, it would be extremely difficult and unnatural to do.
The important thing is the cue should be stroked in a straight line - anything else (swoop/swipe/tomato/potahto... call it what you want) introduces more variables/less consistency.
pj
chgo
I know you're an instructor, but this has to be the worse method of shooting I've heard of. Wrapping it up with a label like "Pro BHE" doesn't give it anymore credibility.
Meaning a straight line on the slightly "angled line."
Neither of these are appropriate and never have been. It's not what was/is done. You or someone else made it up and it stuck. It's WRONG.
I'll go along with all of that for the most part and most people. But, for those who have been using it for a long time, pros and good amateurs, (yes, me) it can be done with a slight wrist curl (convex or concave) at the beginning of the forward stroke to create the slight angle. (neither a swoop/ swipe, wipe, etc.)
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As an instructor, you might want to use the correct anatomical terms. Pronation and supination are rotational movements of the forearm, which would make no sense in a pool stroke.
The terminology you’re looking for is wrist flexion (will move the cue butt closer to your body) and extension (will move the butt away from your body).
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You just don't know what there is to know, BUT think you do. Who teaches and uses an upper body pivot in pool other than you? Any YouTube videos?
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Yes, flexion and extension with the open hand palm/curled fingers around cue butt facing towards the players right hip for a right-handed player. Left for leftie.
see chis has done it for years. thats what it takes to be good in pool, years that is. and you learn by repetition and playing till it becomes natural.
same as a baby learning to walk you dont try to reach all kinds of ways to walk. just let him walk enough and he gets it in his own time frame.
Yeah, but there are specialty ways to walk that need to be learned. BHE is a specialty way of applying English that needs to be understood and learned.
So, what do I mean by a specialty way to walk? Do you know how to "Moon Walk" and be the hit at parties or bars? Do you know where to start after all these years of "just walking" normally? You'll be attracting women like never before!
I'ma gonna make your day to be COOL MAHA wherever you go!
You're welcome!
This is normally called 'tuck and roll'...
You are CO-RECT. One can only lay so much on them at one time without causing brain explosions. If I remember correctly, it was originally called that and demonstrated by Buddy Hall. I would venture to guess Buddy got verbally wasted on this forum
just like C. J. Wiley for what he says and does.
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Angling the cue "dynamically during the stroke" is what's being called "swoop/swipe/etc.". Whether you're Buddy Hall or not, all it adds is inconsistency.
If you think there's some objective advantage to it, let's hear about it.
pj
chgo
By you originally and those who you have buffaloed into thinking you're the foremost authority on everything pool. You're a big fat ZERO in the whole scheme of things pool. (or otherwise)
Yeah, Buddy was really inconsistent.
LMAO! I don't report to you or have to explain anything to you. Drop dead, TROLL!
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yea it may seem that moving the cue off its line to a new one during the stroke is okay but not. might work for some agreed.
bhe you go up to the ball and you are already setting your cue at the angle you need to be and then stroke straight forward from there.
bhe you go up to the ball and you are already setting your cue at the angle you need to be and then stroke straight forward from there.
BHE for inside
FHE for outside
FHE for outside
coefficient vs pivot point anyone?
You don't get it. It's the same thing, just different ways of doing it. There's no right or wrong. But it could be less accurate for those not practiced in it. That makes you right.
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