Bonus ball the truth

TimKrazyMon

Kid Delicious' Evil Twin
Silver Member
Just an observation......

Lee, I appreciate you airring you frustrations with the BB crew and educating us on the level that you got screwed. I had no idea that you got hosed that hard and I know if that had happened to me I would need to vent it out somewhere.

I would, however, like to comment on the 13+ pages of responses that serve no purpose other than to give the BB scum free advertising........WHY?!?!?! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHY?!?!?! These clowns airred AZB on the ads they "purchased" and we're just going to give them more press time for free?!?!
 
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PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
If you're venting on this thread because you're pissed off, then I get it, but I kind of think you're barking up the wrong tree.

The person on this thread only works there in an IC capacity. I'm not sure what he can do for you that would get you your money back.

exactly.
i ate that $1400 3 months ago - this is about BUSINESS - and RIGHT/wrong.
my validation, is that as well, i actually have a DOG in this fight.
and there's a reason, that Steve's not acknowledging my Claim(s).

.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
exactly.
i ate that $1400 3 months ago - this is about BUSINESS - and RIGHT/wrong.
my validation, is that as well, i actually have a DOG in this fight.
and there's a reason, that Steve's not acknowledging my Claim(s).

.

What is Steve Strain's job title? Is it broadcaster? I think I read he was from Texas originally. Maybe he can give you the e-mail, phone number, or address of where to go.
 

Vlr

Registered
exactly.
i ate that $1400 3 months ago - this is about BUSINESS - and RIGHT/wrong.
my validation, is that as well, i actually have a DOG in this fight.
and there's a reason, that Steve's not acknowledging my Claim(s).

.
The reason being I am only here to offer a different point of view from the original post. If there is anything I can do to help someone else I will do my best. But I am not familiar with your situation and don't know if I am the right person to do anything.
 

KoolKat9Lives

Taught 'em all I know
Silver Member
If you're venting on this thread because you're pissed off, then I get it, but I kind of think you're barking up the wrong tree.

The person on this thread only works there in an IC capacity. I'm not sure what he can do for you that would get you your money back.

I can see both sides of this. I don't speak for my Pinky, she's well armed on her own. ;) Her and I have paid a price, along with many, in this debacle.

Again, I respect Steve for coming here and speaking. He's doing pretty good IMO, I hope he remains careful. He, as are many others, is between a purple/orange rock and a hard place.

Our friend, Johnny - I won't push for answers. I think we know well enough. He's been forthcoming to whatever extent he feels comfortable in our recent discussions. Suffice it to say, he's had concerns...

Lee is not @ the money so much at all. It's the principal. IMO (and it's probably a pretty qualified one..... I have to leave it at that.)
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...Our friend, Johnny - I won't push for answers. I think we know well enough. He's been forthcoming to whatever extent he feels comfortable in our recent discussions. Suffice it to say, he's had concerns...

Did you know that today is Johnny's 45th birthday? :smile:
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
The reason being I am only here to offer a different point of view from the original post. If there is anything I can do to help someone else I will do my best. But I am not familiar with your situation and don't know if I am the right person to do anything.

VLR....all you've done is validate what we already knew... that Larry/BB flat-out took advantage of Lee and robbed him blind.

*** still waiting for you to post Lee's pay stubs ***
 

jpparmentier

AZB Artist
Silver Member
Team AzB
is that because AZB hasn't been PAID @ 360 arrears?

It is absolutely not related. Nobody else had any info. Nothing has been published by the other magazines on the internet either. There's simply no consistent PR.

The World Pool Masters is a taped-for-TV event that was staged a couple of weeks ago, so no reason not to publish PR for Bonus Ball since it was the same situation: no live coverage during the play week.

We have setup an "event" page for Bonus Ball and we have updated it with the info we had so far. Click on "Tours & Events", search for BB...

Or simply click here because it's easier :grin:
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
- when you insinuated he was drunk @ NYC
- JA knows what a Royal Flush is
- "choos", is European/English, for "cheers/saluté"

I still have no idea what you are trying to say, PINKLADY.

What does Johnny Archer in NYC have to do you and KK9?

Royal Flush is a card hand in poker, I think. What does Johnny Archer knowing what a Royal Flush is mean in regards to this thread?

"Choos" is a new term for me. I had not heard that one before. Thanks for sharing. I like to learn new terms. :)
 

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
Those are all questions I don't have the answer for.

As far as the 1099s go, they're not due to the players until January 31st, 2014.

If I am a BB player and the IRS investigation is true, I pray they list me as an employee and not an independent contractor. It appears they are getting their tax advice from Facebook and Darren Appleton. That's scarey.

Remember, the original expecation was 26 weeks - $1000 a week. Well over $1000 in taxes would be owed. Even $8900 in income as facebook reported - well over $1000 in taxes.

I will put the over/under at '1' on the number of BB players that did this.

Quarterly Tax Payments

As a 1099 contractor, you have to make quarterly tax payments to the IRS, unless an exception applies. You're not an employee, and therefore there's not employer to withhold those taxes from your paycheck. You can avoid quarterly payments, known as estimated taxes, if you don't owe more than $1,000 in taxes. The only way to determine that is to guess what you'll owe in taxes for the tax year, based on tax credits you received the previous year. You can also compare your household income for the tax year before you became a 1099 contractor, to what it is now, to see whether you'll owe more or less in taxes.

Social Security and Medicare Taxes

You're also expected to pay social security taxes as a 1099 contractor. If you worked for an employer before, you're used to seeing your portion withheld from your paycheck. The employer had to pay their half of the taxes too. You have to pay the entire 100 percent of social security taxes now, but you are allowed to deduct 50 percent of the employer's portion from your taxes. You won't have to pay social security taxes at all, if you make less than $400 after you take all of your business deductions. The amount you have to pay in social security taxes is 12.4 percent of your income. You also have to pay Medicare taxes, which is 2.9 percent. The total payment for both is 15.3 percent of your income.
 

jhanso18

Broken Lock
Silver Member
Cash wasn't there and he demanded ball sets instead. So the league agreed. And I am not the person in charge of paying him, just letting people know a little more insight to the situation. To this point, he has been paid in full.

Did he demand the sets as compensation or collateral? Either way If Lee decided to get the set in place of waiting 3-6 months of getting paid, that's his own mistake. If you wanted to bring some good will BB's way, you would cut him a check anyway for his trouble. Then you would have one less person directly involved with BB shouting from the rafters how shitty it is.

Seems like common sense 101 to me.
 

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JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If I am a BB player and the IRS investigation is true, I pray they list me as an employee and not an independent contractor. It appears they are getting their tax advice from Facebook and Darren Appleton. That's scarey.

Remember, the original expecation was 26 weeks - $1000 a week. Well over $1000 in taxes would be owed. Even $8900 in income as facebook reported - well over $1000 in taxes.

I will put the over/under at '1' on the number of BB players that did this.

Quarterly Tax Payments

As a 1099 contractor, you have to make quarterly tax payments to the IRS, unless an exception applies. You're not an employee, and therefore there's not employer to withhold those taxes from your paycheck. You can avoid quarterly payments, known as estimated taxes, if you don't owe more than $1,000 in taxes. The only way to determine that is to guess what you'll owe in taxes for the tax year, based on tax credits you received the previous year. You can also compare your household income for the tax year before you became a 1099 contractor, to what it is now, to see whether you'll owe more or less in taxes.

Social Security and Medicare Taxes

You're also expected to pay social security taxes as a 1099 contractor. If you worked for an employer before, you're used to seeing your portion withheld from your paycheck. The employer had to pay their half of the taxes too. You have to pay the entire 100 percent of social security taxes now, but you are allowed to deduct 50 percent of the employer's portion from your taxes. You won't have to pay social security taxes at all, if you make less than $400 after you take all of your business deductions. The amount you have to pay in social security taxes is 12.4 percent of your income. You also have to pay Medicare taxes, which is 2.9 percent. The total payment for both is 15.3 percent of your income.

I think if you don't make the quarterly estimated payments, you are then subjected to a 9 percent fine, come April 15th when you file. It is 9 percent of what you owe, on top of what you owe. :embarrassed2:
 

jpparmentier

AZB Artist
Silver Member
Team AzB
Plenty to tackle here, but I will try. First of all, while I wasn't aware of claims of two years of financial information, I was told the job would last 26 weeks AND season two was to start shortly after. So yes, I moved out here under that hope and impression. My point is, I can't just go filing lawsuits or going to the labor board because that never panned out. Moving here was a risk I assumed to do something I thought was a worthwhile venture. I probably WOULD NOT have moved here if I knew it was going to last 6 weeks with a 4 month break. But I took that risk, I am here, and I am doing what I can to help make it work.
That's where the whole thing totally blows my mind. People relocated, it cost a LOT of players and other workers and only a few like Darren Appleton can get back on their feet because they have a larger income than the "average" player - due to their results in other games.

Now I understand what you're saying but I can't believe for one minute that Bonus Ball (the management) cannot be held responsible for failing to deliver what they so loudly promoted: 2 seasons, lots of money, the end of the failures in the business.

They are the biggest failure of the year BY FAR, and their failure will still hurt the industry for a few months.


As for Larry, the man is passionate about this sport and badly wants to create something for the professional player. What is in his bank account or how he handles things I can't speak to. He has been up front with me and is trying and that's as much as I can ask.
Larry's just proved that the current things he was fighting against by not aligning with anyone, no federation, no promoter, were better than him. Some promoters chose to quit now because their feelings (or more) are hurt which I totally understand.

But in reality, what has the whole thing proved? That another vision is not possible, plain and simple. We can work with what we have, but to enter the industry and fight straight away, is plain stupid. He's proven to be a total failure.


Also, I am searching for the quote from someone else and will copy if and when I find it. But I did see it on a thread - just not this one.
It's hard to read everything around here :) It's just that I don't recall reading this. No player has said it, and I believe nobody relayed such info.


Thanks for sharing the info you have. You're taking the heat and I think you can understand why. I do hope, though, that everyone who had to move to Vegas and has lost money over this nonsense are OK in the end.

Some other people in this venture didn't lose money. And still hold their heads high. I just wish they would turn around and leave us for good.

GO BONUS BALL
 
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kvinbrwr

Skee Ball Monster Playa
Gold Member
Did he demand the sets as compensation or collateral? Either way If Lee decided to get the set in place of waiting 3-6 months of getting paid, that's his own mistake. If you wanted to bring some good will BB's way, you would cut him a check anyway for his trouble. Then you would have one less person directly involved with BB shouting from the rafters how shitty it is.

Seems like common sense 101 to me.

Yup.

Seems to me from reading both sides that Lee was desperate for any way to get some cash, BB had no cash, so he took balls. If he still has them, he should give them back and get the cash they now have.

That's "should", which always gets clouded by emotion. People are posting as if BB gave Lee balls in order to screw him. They paid nobody in cash at that time. Lee was desperate and took a desperate measure. I assume had he not taken the balls, he would have gotten some cash recently and be all happy posting on FB with the rest of the BB guys. Its hard to ask BB to "do the right thing" by Lee while he's lambasting them.

However, all this "players got paid" happiness doesn't compensate AZ or the PL KK9 clan or the countless vendors I'm sure BB stiffed.

Clearly, BB paid those they had to to try and still have something marketable to sell. You can't kick out the players and still have players, so they came to terms with the players. A ref can be replaced. Ball Girls (or whatever they call them) can be replaced. Vendors can be replaced. Pretty easy to tell who is going to get paid and who is not. Trust me, when BB fails to the point they don't need the players any more, they will stiff them too (again).

Kevin
 
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