CTE Shot Circle

woody_968

BRING BACK 14.1
Silver Member
Since this thread is for the shot circle, I guess I should ask a question about that LOL.

Do I understand you correctly in thinking that the cirlce should actually be off center to one side a bit since you said the bridge normally wouldnt be on the CTE line?
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
...The most important factor is your bridge hand spot placement, which is something Jim Scott figured out a while back. I'm sure he'd love to talk about it...but, um, I think he's perma-banned....
See the quote from "av84fun" here:


I think it describes what you are referring to.

Also, FYI, I've quoted your contribution from this thread on the same page. Eventually, with enough people trying hard to describe CTE and all of its variations, maybe we will have a better understanding of it one day. I still think some important details are missing, but I'm still listening.

Regards,
Dave
 

Shaft

Hooked and Improving
Silver Member
Dave:

I know you are trying hard to explain, and I thank you for that. I want you to know I am honestly trying to understand.... But I don't understand a word you are saying. This is not necessarily your fault... just how the words you choose connect - or disconnect - with me.

Some things are difficult to explain in words. (I have trouble explaining "imaginary current/power" to a non-electrical engineer.) Maybe Mike Page can translate your words into one of his great animated videos.

I won't ever criticize a system that seems to work for you. Power to you.

If you keep trying, I promise I will, too. I would really like to try and succeed with CTE.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Since this thread is for the shot circle, I guess I should ask a question about that LOL.

Do I understand you correctly in thinking that the cirlce should actually be off center to one side a bit since you said the bridge normally wouldnt be on the CTE line?

I think your bridge would be off to the side only if you look straight down the CTEL--- which is OK if you want to poke your head out slightly to get the outermost OB edge sight. If you position your body on one side or the other of the CTEL vertical plane, you can address the CB at center.

Regardless of what you like to do, the bridge hand spot is always the center of the shot circle, based on my experience.
 

SoundWaves

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you see me at an event, come up to say hi and I'll help you

Ahh, one of the few things I never did in PA... too many people around most of the time. Should have atleast said Hi, See ya next year I hope. Thanks for the thread I hope it stays on track.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Dave:

I know you are trying hard to explain, and I thank you for that. I want you to know I am honestly trying to understand.... But I don't understand a word you are saying. This is not necessarily your fault... just how the words you choose connect - or disconnect - with me.

Some things are difficult to explain in words. (I have trouble explaining "imaginary current/power" to a non-electrical engineer.) Maybe Mike Page can translate your words into one of his great animated videos.

I won't ever criticize a system that seems to work for you. Power to you.

If you keep trying, I promise I will, too. I would really like to try and succeed with CTE.

What he said, especially the part about not having a clue. I have questions, but only to try to understand.

pj
chgo
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
How do you know where to place your bridge?

pj
chgo
Pat:

That's a really good question, but it's not about pivoting technique- which is what I'd like to focus on.

Fair enough. I hope you'll take it up in another thread sometime.

I hope you had a good holiday, Pat.

I worshipped all day at the local Church of Sphereology. Hope yours was as good.

pj
chgo
 

woody_968

BRING BACK 14.1
Silver Member
Pat:

That's a really good question, but it's not about pivoting technique- which is what I'd like to focus on.

I hope you had a good holiday, Pat.


I would think that would fall under pivoting technique, as it could effect the length of the pivot couldn't it?

Ive heard you talk about pivoting the cue from farther back than the bridge contact point. But I still dont understand how that is possible unless you move the bridge.

youve talked about a short shift instead of a sweeping pivot, does bridge placement effect this?

Thanks for all your input.

Woody
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I would think that would fall under pivoting technique, as it could effect the length of the pivot couldn't it?

Ive heard you talk about pivoting the cue from farther back than the bridge contact point. But I still dont understand how that is possible unless you move the bridge.

youve talked about a short shift instead of a sweeping pivot, does bridge placement effect this?

Thanks for all your input.

Woody

I think PJ and I argued about this in the past, and I made a few videos which I think were lost on poolvids. There's a CTE pivoting video I made somewhere on Youtube. Just search for cte pivoting. The bridge placement is static - doesn't move. You can "turn" the cue to different centers from that bridge position.

That video has some bad info, looking back. I said a rotational pivot was bad and that's not always true. Depending on the shortness of a shot, sometimes a rotational pivot is required.

This is the primary purpose of this thread. Your bridge can turn differently through a fixed bridge. If it didn't, you'd miss the OB completely on the majority of your shots. I'd like to get some concurrence before discussing anything else in the future.

Experiment with what I propose and report back. Also, check out the youtube video. By the way, I only knew about "scraping" here - didn't diagram the shot circle yet. Here's that link, btw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij38hYBti4c
 
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1on1pooltournys

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First of all, let me begin by saying Happy Easter to everyone.

This thread isn't meant to stir controversy (I PROMISE), rather maybe fill in some knowledge gaps with CTE. While at the Super Billiard Expo as well as more recently at some local events, people have been coming up to me asking about how CTE works, etc. Many report that some shots they make, some shots they don't --- and others they miss completely.

In past threads, I've mentioned that the secret is in the pivot and that you can't make every shot with the exact same pivot. As a matter of fact, I think the word "pivot" is probably a misnomer when describing anything having to do with CTE since the cue never truly "pivots" from where the wood touches your skin (as if there were a pin driven through the shaft into the table). I knew this was a bad term the moment I met Mike Page in person in Towson, MD a while back.

Before I begin, a few disclaimers:

- You should never sight directly down the CTEL (center to edge line). Your head should always be on one side or the other. I like pretending the CTEL is a vertical plane - my body leans against it, one side or the other.

- The bridge position is not really correct in the diagram... it's never on the CTEL. I did it this way just for simplicity in making the diagram. My only intent is to show how the shot circle works - not the other details of CTE.

- I'm not going to argue CTE with aiming police, respectfully. This post is for those who are using this stuff successfully but can't explain why, or those who are not - but want to.

- I'll only contribute if the tone is friendly and non-condescending, and the topic deals with pivoting. My reason for this is maybe if one topic is discussed at a time, the information won't become diluted and lost in a feeding frenzy.


Consider the following:

f_CTEShotCircm_e963999.jpg


What you see here applies to any shot until the distance between the OB and CB is less than the bridge length. I always shorten my bridge to a distance shorter than that between the CB and OB when this happens. Technically, a "pivot" isn't required at all - that's another story... you can step into the top of the shot circle from one side of the CTEL.

If you were to rotate the cue in the bridge as a true pivot (once again, pretend a nail is driven through the point where the cue touches the skin and into the slate), the cue would turn around the bridge circle radius. This is why people miss shots completely. You would technically only turn the cue like this on a short shot.

For the "mechanical pivoters" out there, you always place your bridge first. Once you're set in your bridge, the cue is turned along the shot circle arc, in relation to the OB - not "rotated/pivoted" from the bridge (bridge circle arc).

This is just a helpful way to describe what is really happening. This is not a functional way of playing....i.e. no one has to "see" a circle on the table in order to make any shot. This is really a "classroom" style of learning how to pivot (um, turn your cue).

OK - practical application when at the table: You should see the OB as a two-dimensional object on a vertical plane (think of the OB as a sticker on a window when down on your shot). Imagine your cue extending to the window and scrape your tip along it until you hit center ball. That's what I do. I only "see a shot circle" on very close shots - within, say, a foot or so.

Notice the longer the shot is, the bigger the circle--- the flatter the arc (think of the Earth - when you look at the horizon, it's nearly flat). The shorter the shot, the smaller the circle--- the curvier the arc (think of a basketball).

I think the reason why so many people say this is a visual system is because they "pivot to the OB" and make the shot and don't know why.

In conclusion, the "correct" center of the CB is determined by the position of the OB, always.... not by the bridge position/bridge length.

.....

I know this is a controversial subject because of some heated threads in the past... some of which I was contributing to the heat. I honestly didn't feel it was my place to post details, so I didn't. As time goes on and I see more and more players using the info or trying to based on the little tidbits they get, I feel more open to sharing freely.

There are some foreign players who share information freely while Americans rice-bowl and in-fight. If things are friendly, open, inquisitive, and brotherly - I'd like to help. If not, I'll just quit posting because I don't want to fight on here anymore... because it's not worth it to me. This is really for cte people or those interested - not a pro/against cte thread.

Happy Easter everyone - best to you and your families.


PS.

FIRSSSSSSSSSST!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This can only make me play worse. IMO.
 

woody_968

BRING BACK 14.1
Silver Member
Ive watched this video several times :) And the one on banks where you talk about the pivot a little.

Thanks for all your input, Ill keep watching the thread.


Woody
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Take what you need & leave the rest :wink:.

I mentioned in my original post, I'm not going to defend CTE to non-CTE players - that's not the theme of this thread.

As for the information in this thread in relation to someone who currently uses CTE... I wouldn't leave anything if I were them.... but what do I know ;)

If you don't use CTE, no worries. You're correct - this will make you play worse. Doing anything you're not accustomed to will make you play worse. Consider this ancillary information for pool knowledge completeness.
 
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