Cue Ball last glance or Object Ball last glance?

[Dan White]

An experienced CTE player can see the CB last but yet at the same time peripherally see the OB relationship to the CB. In other words, both CB and OB can be viewed together.
It does not have to be one or the other.
That is not in pro books, so it must be ca ca.....
I am glad that I have learned to think outside of the box.

Stan Shuffett

I would add that an experienced player sees both balls and the pocket all together, and that is no secret. That feedback is necessary to develop a feel for when a shot looks "on" reasonably quickly, and explains why back cuts tend to be more difficult. It is harder to see the pocket so it is harder to confirm that the shot will go.

I'm not sure anybody has said that when you look at one ball or the other you only see that ball. I think it is understood that one or other is in the periphery. That doesn't really address which ball should be looked at last. Personally I think if cb last worked better then 99% of players would be doing that... but they're not.

 

[gregcantrall]

Well, that's far short of a resounding endorsement of CB last -- when asked what he looks at last and says, "Uh I don't even know, to be honest with you."

As to whatever others are teaching, there can be no doubt that some folks out there are advocating some strange ca-ca. In fact, I'm thinking of all the pro authored books on my shelves and I cannot think of a one that advocates CB last.

Lou Figueroa

Ronnie obviously knows which ball he is looking at when he shoots. His full reply indicates that it is interchangeable and to go back later and tell which it was for a particular shot is not possible. Ronnie's career spans many years and his game has evolved. His left handed shooting is an example of that evolution. It would be interesting to see if that quote is his current mind set.

Willie Hoppies book Billiards As It Should Be Played is a good read and should be on your book shelf.
Rodney Morris has a DVD set out that teaches Advanced Fundamentals, including cue ball last.

As for "resounding endorsement", I am not selling anything and could care less. I just want to make the facts available for any that have an open mind.

.....
I am glad that I have learned to think outside of the box.

Stan Shuffett

Amen! Amazing what a person can learn with an open mind and ability to think outside the box,

 

[stan shuffett]

I would add that an experienced player sees both balls and the pocket all together, and that is no secret. That feedback is necessary to develop a feel for when a shot looks "on" reasonably quickly, and explains why back cuts tend to be more difficult. It is harder to see the pocket so it is harder to confirm that the shot will go.

I'm not sure anybody has said that when you look at one ball or the other you only see that ball. I think it is understood that one or other is in the periphery. That doesn't really address which ball should be looked at last. Personally I think if cb last worked better then 99% of players would be doing that... but they're not.

YOU have to visually factor in the pocket for a 3 way focus. I don't as CTE can be implemented with a 2 way focus. 2 way is stronger that 3 way........

Stan Shuffett

 

[Dan White]

YOU have to visually factor in the pocket for a 3 way focus. I don't as CTE can be implemented with a 2 way focus. 2 way is stronger that 3 way........

Stan Shuffett

Don't get me started, please! lol

 

[anbukev]

In this Tar Podcast interview with Shane Van Boening and Johnny Archer, they give conflicting philosophy on how to aim and what to look at while down on the shot.

Johnny's explains his version at 44:50
https://youtu.be/iUT7-RdKdeA


Shane aims with different parts of his shaft at the object ball like a rifle. Johnny on the other hand does all his aiming standing up. He says once he's down on the shot all he ever has to do is hit the cue ball.

I understand CTE does all the aiming standing up with the visuals. Once you get down on the shot you should be on the AIM LINE. So basically you can shoot the shot looking at the cue ball last.

I'm not advocating nor am I discrediting CTE. How you approach and fall on the AIM LINE is your proagotive. In the end we all try to fall into the correct shot line.

 

[lfigueroa]

Ronnie obviously knows which ball he is looking at when he shoots. His full reply indicates that it is interchangeable and to go back later and tell which it was for a particular shot is not possible. Ronnie's career spans many years and his game has evolved. His left handed shooting is an example of that evolution. It would be interesting to see if that quote is his current mind set.

Willie Hoppies book Billiards As It Should Be Played is a good read and should be on your book shelf.
Rodney Morris has a DVD set out that teaches Advanced Fundamentals, including cue ball last.

As for "resounding endorsement", I am not selling anything and could care less. I just want to make the facts available for any that have an open mind.
Amen! Amazing what a person can learn with an open mind and ability to think outside the box,

I was talking about pool books, not billiards, or snooker. (Certainly not about DVDs.)

In any case it's interesting to note that Hoppe says, right after saying he looks at the CB last, "...several of my fellow pros often have wanted to bet me that I was wrong." Obviously Hoppe thought he was looking at the CB last but professional players who watched him play felt otherwise...

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

And oh BTW, much of the surviving Hoppe video is too grainy to tell but watch this YouTube after the 2:30 mark. It's certainly not definitive but watch his eyes. I'd say he's looking at the OB last.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fBUGz7k0IqMM

Lou Figueroa

 

[Low500]

Cue Ball last

I looked at this Willie Hoppe video with a great big magnifying glass right over his face. he looks at the cue ball last and at the moment the tip of the cue makes contact, then he raises his eyes to watch where it goes.
Did the same with some videos of John Archer...he does the same thing.
Looks like it works pretty good to me.
Came back after doing the same for C J Wiley and his eyes are also on that cue ball last.
Very impressive.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I looked at this Willie Hoppe video with a great big magnifying glass right over his face. he looks at the cue ball last and at the moment the tip of the cue makes contact, then he raises his eyes to watch where it goes.
Did the same with some videos of John Archer...he does the same thing.
Looks like it works pretty good to me.
Came back after doing the same for C J Wiley and his eyes are also on that cue ball last.
Very impressive.

I am looking at the cue ball until the tip hits it and then I raise my eyes up as the ball comes off the tip.

The cue ball is what you are aiming at, isn't it? If you are aligned properly and hit the cue ball where you are aiming, it should go where you want it to.

 

[Dan White]

I looked at this Willie Hoppe video with a great big magnifying glass right over his face. he looks at the cue ball last and at the moment the tip of the cue makes contact, then he raises his eyes to watch where it goes.
Did the same with some videos of John Archer...he does the same thing.
Looks like it works pretty good to me.
Came back after doing the same for C J Wiley and his eyes are also on that cue ball last.
Very impressive.

Not sure what Hoppe playing 3C has to do with pocketing balls and what to look at last when doing so. I think Lou's having fun as there is no ob to look at.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Not sure what Hoppe playing 3C has to do with pocketing balls and what to look at last when doing so. I think Lou's having fun as there is no ob to look at.

I think Lou is being the same recalcitrant Lou that he always is. Doesn't matter what subject is being discussed.

Correct, no OB to look at but there is a very finite spot on the rail he's aiming for and his contact with the tip and whitey has to be dead nuts on especially with spin he might me adding to it.

 

[lfigueroa]

I looked at this Willie Hoppe video with a great big magnifying glass right over his face. he looks at the cue ball last and at the moment the tip of the cue makes contact, then he raises his eyes to watch where it goes.
Did the same with some videos of John Archer...he does the same thing.
Looks like it works pretty good to me.
Came back after doing the same for C J Wiley and his eyes are also on that cue ball last.
Very impressive.

hmmm, no.

1:10 on this video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8731R-54enA

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Not sure what Hoppe playing 3C has to do with pocketing balls and what to look at last when doing so. I think Lou's having fun as there is no ob to look at.

lol, maybe just a wee bit.

There was a time in my life I played a fair amount of 3C. And what I recall is that you can score all kinds of ways, meaning if you're playing off a ball first, you can drive it in different directions (as opposed driving it to one of six specific locations on the rails), sometimes to avoid a kiss, more often to play position. So it's different from playing pool in that way.

Just as a passing thought: if you have to go this far in the way back machine and resurrect Hoppe to make your case that does not inspire confidence in your cause. I mean, who you going to trot out next? Alfredo De Oro?

Lou Figueroa

 

[Low500]

If the YouTube feature of slowing down the speed of the video is employed as well as the screen magnifier, it is quite obvious that Mr. Hoppe looks at his cue ball last.
As well as the others I studied.
There is most certainly an object ball to look at when shooting the accepted break shot in 3C.

 

[Vorpal Cue]

Not sure what Hoppe playing 3C has to do with pocketing balls and what to look at last when doing so. I think Lou's having fun as there is no ob to look at.

It's obvious you've never played any billiards. Most 3C shots start with a carom off one of the OBJECT balls. Hoppe's opinion is relevant to the discussion. Lou is showing us how smart he is. Only he can determine that Hoppe was a liar and that he unconsciously looked at the object ball last. He's a fracking genius. Or not, pick one.

 

[Dan White]

It's obvious you've never played any billiards. Most 3C shots start with a carom off one of the OBJECT balls. Hoppe's opinion is relevant to the discussion. Lou is showing us how smart he is. Only he can determine that Hoppe was a liar and that he unconsciously looked at the object ball last. He's a fracking genius. Or not, pick one.

My statement was that he is not pocketing balls when playing 3C. One of the benefits of ob last is that you also see the pocket in your peripheral vision.

Thank you for explaining how a carom works. It was almost as entertaining as your description of quantum mechanics and gravity!

Next time we discuss how running backs in the NFL should carry the ball let's pull up a WWII era video of some rugby players instead. lol.

 

[Island Drive]

Starting a poll on what pool players glance at last before stroking. I've always looked at the object ball last and thought everyone did but I'm finding out that is not the case. CTE users look at the cue ball last and that might be reason enough to learn that system. Seems it would be easy to hit the cue ball in the middle if we're looking at it last.

How about this....when you've got that 16 point Elk in your sights, do you look at the Animal last or the sights on the rifle last when ya pull the trigger.

 

[Bobkitty]

How about this....when you've got that 16 point Elk in your sights, do you look at the Animal last or the sights on the rifle last when ya pull the trigger.

That is a bad analogy because you'd better be looking at the elk above or through the sights.

 

[lfigueroa]

If the YouTube feature of slowing down the speed of the video is employed as well as the screen magnifier, it is quite obvious that Mr. Hoppe looks at his cue ball last.
As well as the others I studied.
There is most certainly an object ball to look at when shooting the accepted break shot in 3C.

Yes, the terminology in both games is "object ball" but Dan's point is still valid because in billiards you're not compelled to send an OB into a pocket to score a point and you can in fact hit the same OB in a variety of ways, sending it in different directions, and still score.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

It's obvious you've never played any billiards. Most 3C shots start with a carom off one of the OBJECT balls. Hoppe's opinion is relevant to the discussion. Lou is showing us how smart he is. Only he can determine that Hoppe was a liar and that he unconsciously looked at the object ball last. He's a fracking genius. Or not, pick one.

If, as you state, you believe I'm saying Hoppe unconsciously looks at the OB last then you can't turn around and say I'm calling Hoppe a liar because that would require intent to deceive. No possiblay if he's doing it unconsciously.

Lou Figueroa
I pick Door #3